2023 Game Thread

[lou]

I would very much like the Avisail for Corbin idea fyi. We need innings.

Also, I don’t think Maldonado is going to dominate right away, but I wouldn’t mind him replacing one of the guys in the pen soon to see how good he is.

Hoeing should probably get sent down to start or something again as I could see him spot starting later on in the year.

Who are we sending down though? I am assuming Rogers is back any day and Hoeing is sent down (they should stretch him to be a 3-4 inning guy every week if he can do it so I agree there completely) so they have all 6 SP.

Floro, Chargois, Brazoban
Puk, Scott, Okert, Nardi

The lowest xFIP here is Brazoban with a 3.75.... and Hoeing is then a 3.86 to note.


So Eury is going down for Maldonado and they go to a 5 man rotation with 8 relievers and Hoeing starting in AAA?

And then Cueto? Barnes?

I just don't see a path here for Maldonado absent Chargois or Brazoban having 2 more spectacular blowups in a row, and then Barnes being really hurt. And then Hoeing and Soriano are already on the 40 man so maybe it's just him over Maldonado.


To note - you can sell me on moving Scott or Okert right now and start mix/matching Hoeing, Maldonado, and Soriano in call up waves. But they are probably the second arm going somewhere in a large bat trade.


More I think about this, they might really need to trade for a big SP (Greinke or better) just to open up a trade for a bat.

Perez/Greinke - Fulton and friends

Luzardo/Scott - Westburg and friends

Garcia - Corbin and eat the extra $12m as you will still need innings doing the above and at least Corbin is serviceable where Garcia sucks

Grichuk - FV40 guys and/or Comp balance pick. Final bat piece to platoon and lefty mash with Sanchz



S. Perez, Fortes
Arraez, Cooper/Yuli(pick one)
Westburg
Wendle
Berti, Segura
DLC, Soler
Jazz
Sanchez, Grichuk

Sandy, Grienke, Cueto, Cabrera, Eury
Rogers, Garrett, Corbin
Floro, Chargois
Puk, Okert
Last arm - Brazoban/nardi

Still have Meyer, Eder, Cappe, Berry, and Watson here and this is A LOT of innings to get Garrett, Cabrera, and Eury to late September where hopefully they take over with innings left to give.

As it pertains to Maldonado, he might be pitcher 15 or 16 with that depth chart if there are some injuries (with Hoeing/Soriano).


For how good this team is playing, they really have a lot of work to do and find 50-75 IP stat, unless anyone wants to give those to Hoeing and feels OK with that. Could include Eder here too I suppose but they really need someone now to start lowering appearances for the guys literally next start.

[Nick]

Who are we sending down though? I am assuming Rogers is back any day and Hoeing is sent down (they should stretch him to be a 3-4 inning guy every week if he can do it so I agree there completely) so they have all 6 SP.

Floro, Chargois, Brazoban
Puk, Scott, Okert, Nardi

The lowest xFIP here is Brazoban with a 3.75.... and Hoeing is then a 3.86 to note.


So Eury is going down for Maldonado and they go to a 5 man rotation with 8 relievers and Hoeing starting in AAA?

And then Cueto? Barnes?

I just don't see a path here for Maldonado absent Chargois or Brazoban having 2 more spectacular blowups in a row, and then Barnes being really hurt. And then Hoeing and Soriano are already on the 40 man so maybe it's just him over Maldonado.


To note - you can sell me on moving Scott or Okert right now and start mix/matching Hoeing, Maldonado, and Soriano in call up waves. But they are probably the second arm going somewhere in a large bat trade.


More I think about this, they might really need to trade for a big SP (Greinke or better) just to open up a trade for a bat.

Perez/Greinke - Fulton and friends

Luzardo/Scott - Westburg and friends

Garcia - Corbin and eat the extra $12m as you will still need innings doing the above and at least Corbin is serviceable where Garcia sucks

Grichuk - FV40 guys and/or Comp balance pick. Final bat piece to platoon and lefty mash with Sanchz



S. Perez, Fortes
Arraez, Cooper/Yuli(pick one)
Westburg
Wendle
Berti, Segura
DLC, Soler
Jazz
Sanchez, Grichuk

Sandy, Grienke, Cueto, Cabrera, Eury
Rogers, Garrett, Corbin
Floro, Chargois
Puk, Okert
Last arm - Brazoban/nardi

Still have Meyer, Eder, Cappe, Berry, and Watson here and this is A LOT of innings to get Garrett, Cabrera, and Eury to late September where hopefully they take over with innings left to give.

As it pertains to Maldonado, he might be pitcher 15 or 16 with that depth chart if there are some injuries (with Hoeing/Soriano).


For how good this team is playing, they really have a lot of work to do and find 50-75 IP stat, unless anyone wants to give those to Hoeing and feels OK with that. Could include Eder here too I suppose but they really need someone now to start lowering appearances for the guys literally next start.

That's a thing of beauty right there.

Only thing I'll take issue with is Westburg having to play 2B. The dude has been playing almost exclusively SS/3B this year, so they must not agree with Fangraphs, and other publications I've seen seem to agree that he's more than capable of handling 3B. Just saying, I'd much rather drop Segura out of the lineup than Cooper.

[lou]

That's a thing of beauty right there.

Only thing I'll take issue with is Westburg having to play 2B. The dude has been playing almost exclusively SS/3B this year, so they must not agree with Fangraphs, and other publications I've seen seem to agree that he's more than capable of handling 3B. Just saying, I'd much rather drop Segura out of the lineup than Cooper.

If someone can sell me Hoeing can start doing 3.2 innings a week in a bulk reliever role rather immediately I would tweak the above without a Corbin/Garcia swap and save the $12m or so.

But sure, if they did this as their 13 bats.

C - S. Perez, Fortes
IF - Arraez, Cooper/Yuli(pick one), Westburg, Wendle, Berti, Segura
OF - DLC, Soler, Jazz Sanchez, Grichuk

You can sell me on

vs RHP - Bench is mostly Fortes, Grichuk, and two of Yuli/Cooper, Westburg, Berti, Segura, DLC, and Soler depending on off day needs. Yuli/Cooper is probably most of the time here FWIW.

vs LHP - Bench is Wendle, Sanchez, and two of Arraez, Jazz, and S. Perez for off day needs, and this may be heavily Jazz just because they'd have real LHP hitting options and they should baby-Buxton him the rest of the year.

The lineups write themselves from there. It would be pretty deep positionally with a lot of flexibility and they'd have all the top prospects. It works also if Luzardo is moved for Peraza instead, etc. Just a wherever play now stud IF.

[rmc523]

The Royals have said they have no intention of trading Perez. Never say never, but still...

[fish16]

The Royals have said they have no intention of trading Perez. Never say never, but still...

even if they said they do, idk why we are wasting time with trade scenarios for him. Sherman isnt taking on that much payroll for a few years into the future. If they go for a catcher, it would be a free agent to be like Grandal. Owed money, but not after this year. Perez isnt happening.

Realistically, all these trade scenarios other than relatively minor additions are wastes of time. They arent adding a 20 million catcher for the next 2 years plus trading rogers for a prospect. They are going to make a decent addition at C and maybe at SS and maybe another bullpen arm and be done with it.

[Namaste]

Luzardo getting rocked last night wasn’t very comforting.

[Nick]

even if they said they do, idk why we are wasting time with trade scenarios for him. Sherman isnt taking on that much payroll for a few years into the future. If they go for a catcher, it would be a free agent to be like Grandal. Owed money, but not after this year. Perez isnt happening.

Realistically, all these trade scenarios other than relatively minor additions are wastes of time. They arent adding a 20 million catcher for the next 2 years plus trading rogers for a prospect. They are going to make a decent addition at C and maybe at SS and maybe another bullpen arm and be done with it.

And that won't be enough.

God forbid, we come up with Trade Scenarios that will actually get us where we want to be. As awful as Loria was, in 2003 the necessary improvements were made to get us to that championship. Bringing in the HOF Catcher, shoring up our weakest spot by bringing in one of the best closers in the game. Immediately bringing in Conine when our best player goes down with injury.

[rmc523]

even if they said they do, idk why we are wasting time with trade scenarios for him. Sherman isnt taking on that much payroll for a few years into the future. If they go for a catcher, it would be a free agent to be like Grandal. Owed money, but not after this year. Perez isnt happening.

Realistically, all these trade scenarios other than relatively minor additions are wastes of time. They arent adding a 20 million catcher for the next 2 years plus trading rogers for a prospect. They are going to make a decent addition at C and maybe at SS and maybe another bullpen arm and be done with it.

I have to agree this is likely what will happen.

And that won't be enough.

God forbid, we come up with Trade Scenarios that will actually get us where we want to be. As awful as Loria was, in 2003 the necessary improvements were made to get us to that championship. Bringing in the HOF Catcher, shoring up our weakest spot by bringing in one of the best closers in the game. Immediately bringing in Conine when our best player goes down with injury.

I agree it won't be enough, but I think it's most realistic.

You're using an example from 20 years ago with different ownership and FO, so not exactly a "like for like" comparison.

Under Bruce, they also haven't done "enough" in the past 2 offseasons, despite having the same holes each year, so it's on Kim to prove me wrong in that she's willing to make a big move. I hope they do it, but I'm not confident they will.

[fish16]

https://twitter.com/KyleAGlaser/stat...19097763090436

This is super interesting and something i had not noticed. Out of every team in professional baseball, both minors and majors included, we have the 2nd highest average velocity out of all of our pitchers. Only behind the dodgers AA team which has some great prospects.

[lou]

And that won't be enough.

God forbid, we come up with Trade Scenarios that will actually get us where we want to be. As awful as Loria was, in 2003 the necessary improvements were made to get us to that championship. Bringing in the HOF Catcher, shoring up our weakest spot by bringing in one of the best closers in the game. Immediately bringing in Conine when our best player goes down with injury.

The cheap route is

-E. Diaz + Grichuk = a bunch of FV40 guys

-Corbin + maybe a throw in = Garcia so Nationals save some money

-Believing Cooper and Yuli are good and sticking with them, or believing if 1 or both suck, Amaya, Hampson, Davis, and others are suitable bench players


Fortes, E. Diaz
Cooper, Yuli
Arraez
Wendle, Berti
Segura
DLC, Soler
Jazz
Sanchez, Grichuk

Sandy, Cabrera, Eury, Cueto
Luzardo, Rogers, Garrett, Corbin
Floro, Chargois (Brazoban AAA)
Puk, Scott, Okert (Nardi AAA)

This probably adds $14m in new this year and $12m next year, but as mentioned gets 2025 clear of Garcia so there is an extra benefit here. That team is pretty good and might make the last wild card with the waves of "bulk" SP coming after Sandy



........but could be outrageously good if Cooper and Yuli are upgraded for a SS and a stick, with Nardi and Brazoban just presumably getting back on the staff because Luzardo and Scott were shot out for the extra two bats there, etc.

Effectively

-Luzardo + Scott - Westburg or Peraza + friends (and this would lower that $14m in new money to say.... $11.5m or so)

-Replace with Nardi and Brazoban

-Keep one of Cooper/Yuli, or trade FV40 guys for a rental bat upgrade for 1B/wherever. How much would JD Davis with 1 more year of control actually cost? Joc Pederson makes some bucks but shouldn't cost event Fulton as a very expensive rental? Possibilities are endless here if they'd need something else on top. I say JD Davis.


Fortes, E. Diaz
Arraez
Westburg/Peraza
Wendle, Berti
Segura
DLC, Soler
Jazz
Sanchez, Grichuk
13th man - Davis/Joc/Yaztreminski. Pick your older Giant

Sandy, Cabrera, Eury, Cueto
Rogers, Garrett, Corbin
Floro, Chargois, Brazoban
Puk, Okert, Nardi

The Giant might add another $5-10m to payroll, so maybe they'd be up $15-20m to try and contend. This is *cheap* as compared to Perez and they still have Meyer, Eder, Cappe, Berry, and Watson which is the important footnote as all these guys are either useful for next year, or expire.


Team 2 is good here and its a nominal financial price to radically improve short and longterm IMO. 4 new heavily used offense players to effectively get Wendle/Sanchez/Jazz on the bench for all lefties, and Segura, Grichuk, and maintenance days on the bench for righties.


2024 be like....

Fortes, E. Diaz
Arraez
Westburg/Peraza
Berti, Amaya
Davis (we'll says its JD Davis here), Segura
DLC, ____
Jazz, Edwards
Sanchez

Sandy, Cabrera, Eury, Meyer (Cueto decline)
Rogers, Garrett, Eder, Corbin
Chargois, Brazoban
Puk, Okert, Nardi
(Bender, Hoeing, Maldonado next up)


A cheap lefty killing OF and everything is in house here. This team is great. They probably even still have Fulton, and maybe this is where they dip into turning someone like Marco Vargas and other mid-prospects into another young OF as I am imagining Burdick is probably not the answer here but maybe he surprises.



Basically there are no excuses. This is very do able for under $20m in new money this year that would get deflected off interest now-playoffs + potential playoffs, and doesn't hurt a short or longterm budget past that where they wouldn't have to do shit next year besides identify inventory relievers and AAAA players on minor league deals

[Nick]

I have to agree this is likely what will happen.




I agree it won't be enough, but I think it's most realistic.

You're using an example from 20 years ago with different ownership and FO, so not exactly a "like for like" comparison.

Under Bruce, they also haven't done "enough" in the past 2 offseasons, despite having the same holes each year, so it's on Kim to prove me wrong in that she's willing to make a big move. I hope they do it, but I'm not confident they will.

I'm not confident either, why would anyone be?

But I can still dream that Sherman has some semblance of competitiveness that will outweigh his penny-pinching. This is the first time this team his been in this situation under his tenure. (Covid season being an outlier, but hey they did bring in Marte that season which was huge) Let's see what they do, we're in the dance right now 2/5 of the way into the season. It's up to Bruce and Kim to do what's necessary to keep us there.

[fish16]

And that won't be enough.

God forbid, we come up with Trade Scenarios that will actually get us where we want to be. As awful as Loria was, in 2003 the necessary improvements were made to get us to that championship. Bringing in the HOF Catcher, shoring up our weakest spot by bringing in one of the best closers in the game. Immediately bringing in Conine when our best player goes down with injury.

Urbina was a free agent to be when we acquired him. Conine was a 37 year old on the tail end of his career making 3 million. Pudge was a great signing obviously, but that too was a 1 year deal. Im not saying dont improve the team, but these half baked 3 different deal scenarios is just a waste of time to discuss. He isnt going to add payroll long term. It is what it is. It shouldnt be that way, but it is. Im just saying these ideas of us adding a catcher making not only 20 million this year, but the next 2 years as well, just will never happen.

[fish16]

Fulton having UCL surgery. not a full TJ surgery, but still out for the year. Going to be very hard to add big pieces at the deadline without subtracting from the current rotation.

[fish16]

New mish and Jackson article just came out. They are interested in a C upgrade but Perez doesnt want to be moved anyways. Mentions fitterer as a name to monitor in potential trade talks. It does say the expect to be buyers at the deadline though.

Also mentions how we have done great on the trade market to get bats. DLC for Yimi, Pablo for Arraez, and then turned Brian Schales who is now out of baseball into nick anderson and then flipped anderson and trevor richards for Sanchez and Stanek. 3 legit bats, plus obviously the ozuna deal eventually turning into Sandy and Jazz.

[rmc523]

New mish and Jackson article just came out. They are interested in a C upgrade but Perez doesnt want to be moved anyways. Mentions fitterer as a name to monitor in potential trade talks. It does say the expect to be buyers at the deadline though.

Also mentions how we have done great on the trade market to get bats. DLC for Yimi, Pablo for Arraez, and then turned Brian Schales who is now out of baseball into nick anderson and then flipped anderson and trevor richards for Sanchez and Stanek. 3 legit bats, plus obviously the ozuna deal eventually turning into Sandy and Jazz.

*ignores Yelich and Realmuto deals* lol

But yes, they've had some success. We certainly haven't drafted/developed anything, that's for sure.