2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fauowls44]

Joe Frisaro
@JoeFrisaro
The #Marlins are making progress on a 1-year contract with free agent catcher Francisco Cervelli. Miami has been in the market for a veteran backup for Jorge Alfaro, along with a veteran to assist in the development of its young pitching staff. #MLB
10:30 AM · Dec 23, 2019·Twitter Web App

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Joe Frisaro
@JoeFrisaro
With the Francisco Cervelli deal getting close to being finalized, the #Marlins attention will again be on adding another experienced hitter. Nothing close, at this point, on Yasiel Puig, however. Bullpen remains another area being addressed.
10:38 AM · Dec 23, 2019·Twitter Web App

[lou]

With the Francisco Cervelli deal getting close to being finalized, the #Marlins attention will again be on adding another experienced hitter. Nothing close, at this point, on Yasiel Puig, however. Bullpen remains another area being addressed.
10:38 AM · Dec 23, 2019·Twitter Web App

Ryan Butcher would make some sense to get a lefty and put Quijada into AAA. I don't think they need any right handers. They have a lot of arm talent.

Butcher probably can wait for a contender.

Maybe Aaron Loup on a MiLB deal if he's healthy.

[Lee Stone]

Tyler Heineman has signed with another team (didn't say which). Given the absolute crap catching throughout the system, I just don't get it. Further, I thought Bryan Holaday was a bright spot for the Marlins last season. I'd much prefer him over Cervelli. And by and by, Holaday had a higher OBP and OPS than Alfaro.

Bottom line: Acquiring Cervelli is not only an unenlightened idea, but a really poor reflection on the Marlin front office.

[fauowls44]

1 year, $2 million for Cervelli.

[Maddawg]

The only one suggesting we try to dink out 81 wins is the guy suggesting we sell out the now clear salary sheet for the next few years for the first available above average hitter. You continue to idiotically suggest paying huge Money over long years for above average hitters simply because this is the first offeseason in which we’ve cleared the books.
It’s idiotic. Wait for the big name and continue to build from within rather than continuing to add Prado/Chen/Ziegler type contracts on a team that is destined to be a small market team for mediocre/ above average players. It shows absolutely 0 vision and reality for how a consistent contender will inevitably be built down here

I understand what you are saying Fish, but at some point you need to start building local fan excitement. You saw the team last year - 1 out of every 8 games was a shutout. That's unacceptable. Not only did they lose, but they were also BORING. That is one reason why you saw attendance drop last year. It was mostly a yawnfest of Brinson among others whiffing so much they kept the infielders cooler than the outfielders.

You need to start signing a couple of big names because you are not sure Bleday, or Mizner, and others will be competent MLB hitters. Losing is bad for business, but losing & boring is a fanbase killer.

[fauowls44]

I understand what you are saying Fish, but at some point you need to start building local fan excitement. You saw the team last year - 1 out of every 8 games was a shutout. That's unacceptable. Not only did they lose, but they were also BORING. That is one reason why you saw attendance drop last year. It was mostly a yawnfest of Brinson among others whiffing so much they kept the infielders cooler than the outfielders.

You need to start signing a couple of big names because you are not sure Bleday, or Mizner, and others will be competent MLB hitters. Losing is bad for business, but losing & boring is a fanbase killer.

This. Another 50-60 win season doesn’t help anything. They need to show a commitment to improving the MLB roster. They’ve done that so far this offseason, but they need to sign another bat and a late inning reliever. Puig would be absolutely perfect here.

[rmc523]

I have a very hard time believing he turns down 10/$305, the 4th largest contract in baseball history, more then Machado, and that includes 2 arbitration years where Machado included none so he's really blowing it out of the water. If anything, they'd need to go to 11/$331 and then he becomes 2nd highest contract over Bryce. With an opt out in 5 years.

Who is syaing no, and the Marlins have a lot of talent on paper

I know you've mentioned it, but I have a hard time believing they'll be open to paying for another Stanton contract, when they were hellbent on getting rid of it.

[Nick]

I know you've mentioned it, but I have a hard time believing they'll be open to paying for another Stanton contract, when they were hellbent on getting rid of it.

I agree with you. The only thing I'd say to that though, is we have to remember that Loria is a dirty swindler, the overall contract was 13 years/$325 million, which comes out to $25 million a year, and only 2 of those years were with us and in that time Loria only paid $23.5 million of the contract. So when Stanton was dealt it was an 11-year $301.5 million dollar contract, so the contract actually became a much worse contract after those 2 years because Loria made sure to barely pay any of it in the 2 years he was responsible for it. Despite Stanton literally winning MVP the year we dealt him.

[fish16]

I understand what you are saying Fish, but at some point you need to start building local fan excitement. You saw the team last year - 1 out of every 8 games was a shutout. That's unacceptable. Not only did they lose, but they were also BORING. That is one reason why you saw attendance drop last year. It was mostly a yawnfest of Brinson among others whiffing so much they kept the infielders cooler than the outfielders.

You need to start signing a couple of big names because you are not sure Bleday, or Mizner, and others will be competent MLB hitters. Losing is bad for business, but losing & boring is a fanbase killer.

I think they need to start winning and I’m cool with signing big names, just do it for 2 or fewer years unless they are truly transcendent players. I think you need one more year of evaluating these hitters and pitchers on the farm before you start signing guys to 3+ year deals when they could just end up blocking a prospects path to the big leagues while being sognificantly more expensive. I think you evaluate the outfielders, Jazz, Lewin, and isan this year and then next year you make splashy free agent signings to try to compensate for any guys whose future potential might dim.

I’d love puig for many reasons and I think signing him, 1 stop gap starter on a 1+1 deal and then a romo type reliever or two will be enough. I have said this a lot but I really think August and September of this year can be very similar to the cubs of 2014 wher they finished with just 73 wins but at the end of the season you will see an enormous influx of great talent beginning their careers. From June on you will see sixto, Jesus Sanchez, Jazz, maybe Lewin, neidert, Cabrera and a few others followed by bleday, Garrett, and Rogers the following year. I totally get the viewpoint of needing to win at some point but I think if they are patient and just add some stop gaps for a few years they might be able to save some long term money that can go to adding that one true star in the next few years.

Depending on how fast they bring up the prospects I can see them winning somewhere between 70-75 games next year will showing marked improvement in the second half of the year and giving a lot of momentum to 2021

[Nick]

Tyler Heineman has signed with another team (didn't say which). Given the absolute crap catching throughout the system, I just don't get it. Further, I thought Bryan Holaday was a bright spot for the Marlins last season. I'd much prefer him over Cervelli. And by and by, Holaday had a higher OBP and OPS than Alfaro.

Bottom line: Acquiring Cervelli is not only an unenlightened idea, but a really poor reflection on the Marlin front office.

Although I'm not as high on Heineman as Lee is. (obviously) I do think a Holaday-Heineman combination would've outperformed Cervelli as backup next season, especially with Cervelli's injury concerns, and been cheaper.

[fish16]

Tyler Heineman has signed with another team (didn't say which). Given the absolute crap catching throughout the system, I just don't get it. Further, I thought Bryan Holaday was a bright spot for the Marlins last season. I'd much prefer him over Cervelli. And by and by, Holaday had a higher OBP and OPS than Alfaro.

Bottom line: Acquiring Cervelli is not only an unenlightened idea, but a really poor reflection on the Marlin front office.

Holiday also had just 115 abs and got the fortune of playing once a week. He is a career .626 ops guy over 671 abs. I would have kept Heineman as the aaa catcher tandem with a re-signed holaday but it’s not the end of the world. They should sign 1 more aaa depth catcher guy though with Cervellis concussion issues.

[Maddawg]

I think they need to start winning and I’m cool with signing big names, just do it for 2 or fewer years unless they are truly transcendent players. I think you need one more year of evaluating these hitters and pitchers on the farm before you start signing guys to 3+ year deals when they could just end up blocking a prospects path to the big leagues while being sognificantly more expensive. I think you evaluate the outfielders, Jazz, Lewin, and isan this year and then next year you make splashy free agent signings to try to compensate for any guys whose future potential might dim.

I’d love puig for many reasons and I think signing him, 1 stop gap starter on a 1+1 deal and then a romo type reliever or two will be enough. I have said this a lot but I really think August and September of this year can be very similar to the cubs of 2014 wher they finished with just 73 wins but at the end of the season you will see an enormous influx of great talent beginning their careers. From June on you will see sixto, Jesus Sanchez, Jazz, maybe Lewin, neidert, Cabrera and a few others followed by bleday, Garrett, and Rogers the following year. I totally get the viewpoint of needing to win at some point but I think if they are patient and just add some stop gaps for a few years they might be able to save some long term money that can go to adding that one true star in the next few years.

Depending on how fast they bring up the prospects I can see them winning somewhere between 70-75 games next year will showing marked improvement in the second half of the year and giving a lot of momentum to 2021

that's plan A and is the perfect scenario. But what is plan B & plan C.....

I'm just worried that Jeter/Sherman are just in this long enough to makr a profit and be "smarter" Lorias.....I've always been suspect of Jeter using the tern "sustainability"....that is an economic term, not an athletic one. Using that term makes me feel as though the real idea is to get the costs down to as low as they can go, make the team profitable, which they are on the verge of now (national tv, radio & internet contracts are worth over $100 million for each team now I believe) and you have on top of that all local TV & radio contracts, concessions profits, gear sales profits, and the stadium naming rights - baseball is a profitable business if you keep it cheap....even a losing team is guaranteed on making a lot of money.

Does MLB ever take a look at a franchise that is just being run to make a profit instead of winning ? You have such a damaged fanbase here, I don't know if it's ever repairable. I know of friends that say they just don't care about the Marlins because they say players will get good & the Marlins will trade them, so why should invest my time in the team ? To those that don't live down here, that is the prevailing attitude down here...it shows in the attendance. If it was just Loria, why didn't the attendance surge after Loria was out of the picture ?

It's already been 10 years not just for playoffs, but just for the franchise to win 82 games.....that is really pathetic, and now you guys are saying 2023 is the big push year, so 14 seasons of losing. That's a lot to ask of a fanbase. That's why it's imperative they bite the bullet & spend some cash & try to get some fans back in the stands. At least see if that will get some fans back out.

Does anyone have the number of season ticket holders there are ? Last I heard was just above 500. I'd be surprised if it's more than 300 by now.

[fish16]

that's plan A and is the perfect scenario. But what is plan B & plan C.....

I'm just worried that Jeter/Sherman are just in this long enough to makr a profit and be "smarter" Lorias.....I've always been suspect of Jeter using the tern "sustainability"....that is an economic term, not an athletic one. Using that term makes me feel as though the real idea is to get the costs down to as low as they can go, make the team profitable, which they are on the verge of now (national tv, radio & internet contracts are worth over $100 million for each team now I believe) and you have on top of that all local TV & radio contracts, concessions profits, gear sales profits, and the stadium naming rights - baseball is a profitable business if you keep it cheap....even a losing team is guaranteed on making a lot of money.

Does MLB ever take a look at a franchise that is just being run to make a profit instead of winning ? You have such a damaged fanbase here, I don't know if it's ever repairable. I know of friends that say they just don't care about the Marlins because they say players will get good & the Marlins will trade them, so why should invest my time in the team ? To those that don't live down here, that is the prevailing attitude down here...it shows in the attendance. If it was just Loria, why didn't the attendance surge after Loria was out of the picture ?

It's already been 10 years not just for playoffs, but just for the franchise to win 82 games.....that is really pathetic, and now you guys are saying 2023 is the big push year, so 14 seasons of losing. That's a lot to ask of a fanbase. That's why it's imperative they bite the bullet & spend some cash & try to get some fans back in the stands. At least see if that will get some fans back out.

Does anyone have the number of season ticket holders there are ? Last I heard was just above 500. I'd be surprised if it's more than 300 by now.

This franchise is being run absolutely nothing like the previous ownership other than the current low payroll which is to be expected and was the plan for the rebuild to purge out the huge salaries for bad players. Other than the overview of the lack of major league salary currently, everything from the draft, to international free agency, to off the field distractions, to attempting to form relationships with local businesses, to the ballpark renovations are currently a complete 180 from the previous regime. Stop looking at the short term on the field results and look at the overall well thought out and comprehensive plan and you’ll stop being so unrelentingly negative about the future direction of the team.

This team is in a better position to succeed now and for the foreseeable future than we have been since maybe 2005.

[tjfla]

Holiday also had just 115 abs and got the fortune of playing once a week. He is a career .626 ops guy over 671 abs. I would have kept Heineman as the aaa catcher tandem with a re-signed holaday but it’s not the end of the world. They should sign 1 more aaa depth catcher guy though with Cervellis concussion issues.

We sign a solid Backup C and people are crying about it. He either looks solid and we trade him at deadline or he get concussion again and see ya.

Wallach will be the AAA C as soon as he DFA

AAA-Wallach/Lavarnway
AA-Navaretto/Chavez/Leon
Hi A-Fortes/BJ Lopez/Osborne
Lo A-Banfield/Skelton/Fish or Hernandez or whoever

Fortes and Banfield could be moved up a level too

AAA-Wallach/Lavarnway/Leon
AA-Fortes/Navaretto/Chavez
Hi A-Banfield/BJ Lopez/Osborne
Lo A-Skelton/Fish or Barstad or Hernandez or Arcaya

No real prospects except Banfield but lots of depth

[Maddawg]

This franchise is being run absolutely nothing like the previous ownership other than the current low payroll which is to be expected and was the plan for the rebuild to purge out the huge salaries for bad players. Other than the overview of the lack of major league salary currently, everything from the draft, to international free agency, to off the field distractions, to attempting to form relationships with local businesses, to the ballpark renovations are currently a complete 180 from the previous regime. Stop looking at the short term on the field results and look at the overall well thought out and comprehensive plan and you’ll stop being so unrelentingly negative about the future direction of the team.

This team is in a better position to succeed now and for the foreseeable future than we have been since maybe 2005.

But what if plan A doesn't work ? What happens if the current fam system propects don't pan out ? You won't hit on all of them. They needed to NAIL that Yelich trade. And Brinson was a whiff....now there is tremendous pressure on Harrison because of that. If he too is a whiff, you really blew a major part of this rebuild.

I expected something to happen at the Winter meetings. Did I expect a big name guy to sign a FA contract.....nooooo. But they talked a lot but in the end, did nothing.

As of right now, there is no immediate reason for optimism that you insist we all have. They have a few prospects but nothing else. You have an MLB franchise that needs a boost. Telling fans to continue to be patient, means you risk losing even more fans who will move on permanently to other teams.....of course when they have done just that, and maybe the Marlins do make a run at 85-88 wins in 2023....the local fanbase is going to be like....that's nice but I root for so-n-so now....don't you get how damaging this is to the franchise ?

If they couldn't afford to keep at least an entertaining team of the field during this time, why do you buy it ? They should have had more capital to invest for the short term rebuild to occur instead of the scorched Earth way they chose. They must not have done much research on the fanbase here if they were so naive as to think just Loria going away would turn things around.