2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fish16]

Any deal we make for Rizzo or even Joc Pederson-level player has to come with an extension already signed. Rizzo may be more open to an extension too since he's got that club option looming in 2021.

It’s a super cheap club option too so if the deal came with some sort of extension where we would decline the club option and immediately extend him to a deal that is closer to his market value I could be open to that

[rmc523]

https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status...70818215874560

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Source : Marlins and Rangers have talked trade. Miami interested in one of their Outfielders. Mazara potentially. Rangers asking for the Marlins best big league players in return. No chance that happens.

[Nick]

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Source : Marlins and Rangers have talked trade. Miami interested in one of their Outfielders. Mazara potentially. Rangers asking for the Marlins best big league players in return. No chance that happens.

You know your teams in real dire straits when I see this, and I'm like, well who would that even be? Anderson I guess.

[lou]

You know your teams in real dire straits when I see this, and I'm like, well who would that even be? Anderson I guess.

I don't think this is fair. Anderson is a really good young player (48th hitter in WAR 2018+2019 combined). Rangers also need a 3B. I have to imagine they are offering some prospects on top of Mazara for him, but their farm is hot garbage (Marlins arguably have 10-15 guys better than their best prospect) so they can go fuck themselves.

You know what the Rangers should have done - offered the Orioles literally anything for Villar.

[Nick]

I don't think this is fair. Anderson is a really good young player (48th hitter in WAR 2018+2019 combined). Rangers also need a 3B. I have to imagine they are offering some prospects on top of Mazara for him, but their farm is hot garbage (Marlins arguably have 10-15 guys better than their best prospect) so they can go fuck themselves.

You know what the Rangers should have done - offered the Orioles literally anything for Villar.

Anderson is a good player, but still 48th hitter, there are 30 teams. That's not great. Also, he said players not player, who is #2? Alcantara? A guy some people on this board want moved to the pen.

[lou]

Bleday and Lewin for a 30 year old rizzo in a move that won’t make us a contender next year would be horrendous. If you can get a guy like betts, Lindor, or Bryant and then extend them a bleday trade would be fine for me but not for a 30 year d rizzo who is of course a great player but doesn’t put you over the top and is a free agent in two years

The only thing horrendous lately is your analysis on all the ways the Marlins can waste money and not get better. To note, winning games is important versus maximizing club controlled assets and trying to dink to 81 wins internally.

Getting Rizzo would be a FRANCHISE ALTERING event.

You extend him (he is 2 years from free agency, lives in Parkland, and you can whack him with a qualifying offer to depress his value), and convince him to do so by signing Castellanos/Ozuna to a 4 year deal to show him you're serious right now. Also buyout Anderson for 5. Rizzo probably takes a 4/$90 extension right now (making him around 6/$130 which is a bargain compared to $350 million with Mookie/Lindor. I'll take Rizzo for 6 and $200 million and you would too). Donaldson is going to be a good comp to project his value moving forward.

This is an $85-$90 million team in 2022 if they do it right:

Alfaro, TBD
Rizzo, Cooper
Isan,
Jazz, Berti/Devers
Anderson
Castellanos
Monte, Sierra/VVM/Miller < - Scott coming fast
Sanchez, Ramirez/Dean/TBD/Not an issue

Sixto, Sandy, Pablo, Garret, Neidert
Guzman, Cabrera, Brigham, Mejia, Holloway/others (or whoever the SP/RP land)
Rogers, Vesia, Garcia/Quijada/Stewart

Top prospects: # 3 2020 (ideally Hancock!), #37 2020, #67 2020, Scott, Misner, Devers, Nunez, Osiris, Soriano, Fitterer, Salas, 2021 picks, more IFA < ------ Deep. Also, just from this basic hypothetical, Villar, Caleb, Urena have been moved for more prospects, let alone any other RP moved, breakouts, etc.

They should be all-in on bringing both South Florida guys home and combined giving them $200 million. The only practical loss is Bleday/Sanchez

- - - - - - - - - -

Anderson is a good player, but still 48th hitter, there are 30 teams. That's not great. Also, he said players not player, who is #2? Alcantara? A guy some people on this board want moved to the pen.

I mean the 2nd best position player, on average, is pretty great? You have 8 Brian Andersons, you're a top 8 position core in baseball.

Among MLB only and ignoring Villar as he isn't a longterm asset, I think Sandy and Pablo can both stake claims to # 2, and Caleb, Alfaro, and Isan are the next 3 in some order. Hard to put anyone else into the discussion at this time but a lot of stuff is coming up so I'm optimistic.

[Nick]

I mean the 2nd best position player, on average, is pretty great? You have 8 Brian Andersons, you're a top 8 position core in baseball.

Among MLB only and ignoring Villar as he isn't a longterm asset, I think Sandy and Pablo can both stake claims to # 2, and Caleb, Alfaro, and Isan are the next 3 in some order. Hard to put anyone else into the discussion at this time but a lot of stuff is coming up so I'm optimistic.

You aren't going to have 8 Brian Andersons, though. I'm just saying Brian Anderson is probably the worst "best" Marlins player since probably 1998. Even then Cliff Floyd was pretty good. And there's a lot of bad Marlins teams in that time.

[Namaste]

We’re out of the bidding because you don’t overpay guys just because you happen to have a low payroll at the time. Terrible teams give out clear overpays because of current salary obligations. Well run teams never give out contracts that are blatant overpays because they happen to have a cleared salary sheet for the next few years. Not doing so would just lead you back to the point where you’re paying way too much for merely average players like prado, Chen, Ziegler, tazawa, etc

Why not overpay on a 3-4 year deal?

Whoever signs Cole is going to overpay. Sometimes you overpay to win a World Series?

[rmc523]

The only thing horrendous lately is your analysis on all the ways the Marlins can waste money and not get better. To note, winning games is important versus maximizing club controlled assets and trying to dink to 81 wins internally.

Getting Rizzo would be a FRANCHISE ALTERING event.

You extend him (he is 2 years from free agency, lives in Parkland, and you can whack him with a qualifying offer to depress his value), and convince him to do so by signing Castellanos/Ozuna to a 4 year deal to show him you're serious right now. Also buyout Anderson for 5. Rizzo probably takes a 4/$90 extension right now (making him around 6/$130 which is a bargain compared to $350 million with Mookie/Lindor. I'll take Rizzo for 6 and $200 million and you would too). Donaldson is going to be a good comp to project his value moving forward.

This is an $85-$90 million team in 2022 if they do it right:

Alfaro, TBD
Rizzo, Cooper
Isan,
Jazz, Berti/Devers
Anderson
Castellanos
Monte, Sierra/VVM/Miller < - Scott coming fast
Sanchez, Ramirez/Dean/TBD/Not an issue

Sixto, Sandy, Pablo, Garret, Neidert
Guzman, Cabrera, Brigham, Mejia, Holloway/others (or whoever the SP/RP land)
Rogers, Vesia, Garcia/Quijada/Stewart

Top prospects: # 3 2020 (ideally Hancock!), #37 2020, #67 2020, Scott, Misner, Devers, Nunez, Osiris, Soriano, Fitterer, Salas, 2021 picks, more IFA < ------ Deep. Also, just from this basic hypothetical, Villar, Caleb, Urena have been moved for more prospects, let alone any other RP moved, breakouts, etc.

They should be all-in on bringing both South Florida guys home and combined giving them $200 million. The only practical loss is Bleday/Sanchez

- - - - - - - - - -



I mean the 2nd best position player, on average, is pretty great? You have 8 Brian Andersons, you're a top 8 position core in baseball.

Among MLB only and ignoring Villar as he isn't a longterm asset, I think Sandy and Pablo can both stake claims to # 2, and Caleb, Alfaro, and Isan are the next 3 in some order. Hard to put anyone else into the discussion at this time but a lot of stuff is coming up so I'm optimistic.

I kind of think the "local guy" thing is overplayed. I don't think most people really care about that that much. If the guy happens to be from here, great, but people aren't going to suddenly fill the ballpark because the guy is from here (same goes for Cuban guys).

Why not overpay on a 3-4 year deal?

Whoever signs Cole is going to overpay. Sometimes you overpay to win a World Series?

He doesn't think Castellanos is worth it unless it's a 2 year deal because that's all he wants to offer anyone.

[lou]

I kind of think the "local guy" thing is overplayed. I don't think most people really care about that that much. If the guy happens to be from here, great, but people aren't going to suddenly fill the ballpark because the guy is from here (same goes for Cuban guys).

I think it matters more for the ability to retain Rizzo (if they were to trade for him) or sign Castellanos, as they have ties here. A good Marlins team and being home is a nice reward if you're being paid market rate. I think it's easy to sell a good Marlins team with the players coming and having 2 legitimate middle of the order bedrocks signed.

I think their draw for fans would be the same as any other player - win some games and don't have another "firesale."

- - - - - - - - - -

Why not overpay on a 3-4 year deal?

Whoever signs Cole is going to overpay. Sometimes you overpay to win a World Series?

I tend to think he'd rather have Adrian Gonzalez than 2003

[rmc523]

I think it matters more for the ability to retain Rizzo (if they were to trade for him) or sign Castellanos, as they have ties here. A good Marlins team and being home is a nice reward if you're being paid market rate. I think it's easy to sell a good Marlins team with the players coming and having 2 legitimate middle of the order bedrocks signed.

I think their draw for fans would be the same as any other player - win some games and don't have another "firesale."

- - - - - - - - - -



I tend to think he'd rather have Adrian Gonzalez than 2003

Ah, ok. I get what you're saying. You're looking at it from the "another reason for a player to sign with us" standpoint, not so much the fan side. I totally get that.

[fish16]

didi on a 1 year deal is a great deal

[lou]

oh for sure, a Wil Myers move is just the thing they should be looking into. I just don't think I agree that bringing in Myers and absorbing that contract is an alternative to bringing in Castellanos/Ozuna/Pederson.

Giants just ate Zack Cozart's $12+ million for a FV45 prospect (LAA 1st rounder last year). This is good precedent for a hypothetical Wil Myers trade.

Myers is nowhere near as bad as Cozart is now (-.9 WAR), but triple that money plus some, and maybe they would part with Morejon/etc. as a centerpiece.

Love the move for the Giants. Could pay enormous dividends.

[fish16]

Why not overpay on a 3-4 year deal?

Whoever signs Cole is going to overpay. Sometimes you overpay to win a World Series?

Cole is a superstar pitcher, castellanos is an above average hitter who sucks at fielding. It’s not all that complicated to build a team. You don’t just throw money at above average players for star money because you happen to have cleared the books. The books are clean because we waited out/dealt contracts like the one you’re suggesting we give

- - - - - - - - - -

The only thing horrendous lately is your analysis on all the ways the Marlins can waste money and not get better. To note, winning games is important versus maximizing club controlled assets and trying to dink to 81 wins internally.

Getting Rizzo would be a FRANCHISE ALTERING event.

You extend him (he is 2 years from free agency, lives in Parkland, and you can whack him with a qualifying offer to depress his value), and convince him to do so by signing Castellanos/Ozuna to a 4 year deal to show him you're serious right now. Also buyout Anderson for 5. Rizzo probably takes a 4/$90 extension right now (making him around 6/$130 which is a bargain compared to $350 million with Mookie/Lindor. I'll take Rizzo for 6 and $200 million and you would too). Donaldson is going to be a good comp to project his value moving forward.

This is an $85-$90 million team in 2022 if they do it right:

Alfaro, TBD
Rizzo, Cooper
Isan,
Jazz, Berti/Devers
Anderson
Castellanos
Monte, Sierra/VVM/Miller < - Scott coming fast
Sanchez, Ramirez/Dean/TBD/Not an issue

Sixto, Sandy, Pablo, Garret, Neidert
Guzman, Cabrera, Brigham, Mejia, Holloway/others (or whoever the SP/RP land)
Rogers, Vesia, Garcia/Quijada/Stewart

Top prospects: # 3 2020 (ideally Hancock!), #37 2020, #67 2020, Scott, Misner, Devers, Nunez, Osiris, Soriano, Fitterer, Salas, 2021 picks, more IFA < ------ Deep. Also, just from this basic hypothetical, Villar, Caleb, Urena have been moved for more prospects, let alone any other RP moved, breakouts, etc.

They should be all-in on bringing both South Florida guys home and combined giving them $200 million. The only practical loss is Bleday/Sanchez

- - - - - - - - - -



I mean the 2nd best position player, on average, is pretty great? You have 8 Brian Andersons, you're a top 8 position core in baseball.

Among MLB only and ignoring Villar as he isn't a longterm asset, I think Sandy and Pablo can both stake claims to # 2, and Caleb, Alfaro, and Isan are the next 3 in some order. Hard to put anyone else into the discussion at this time but a lot of stuff is coming up so I'm optimistic.

The only one suggesting we try to dink out 81 wins is the guy suggesting we sell out the now clear salary sheet for the next few years for the first available above average hitter. You continue to idiotically suggest paying huge Money over long years for above average hitters simply because this is the first offeseason in which we’ve cleared the books.
It’s idiotic. Wait for the big name and continue to build from within rather than continuing to add Prado/Chen/Ziegler type contracts on a team that is destined to be a small market team for mediocre/ above average players. It shows absolutely 0 vision and reality for how a consistent contender will inevitably be built down here

[Nick]

If 1 3-4 year deal at $15-$20 million range per cripples this organization, then we have no business being in this league. You use your assets to improve your team. Our biggest asset right now is ability to spend. (well it should be, who really fucking knows how much this FO will be willing to spend, it's uncharted waters) fish16 is still in Jeff Loria mindset where the owner doesn't spend anything until he does then it's a disaster.

I'm all for waiting for the big name and going all in on a superstar. Rendon and Cole are big names and I don't see us in on those guys, to me those guys would be perfect fits, yeah they are going to make stupid money, but so is the next round of superstar players to hit the FA market in coming years. If they aren't making a play for Cole and Rendon this year there's no reason to think they'll go all in on a superstar in Free Agency in coming years.

You start spending money now, get people's attention around the league, you don't go overboard and inhibit your ability to spend in coming years, but you bring in someone who will help you not only next year, but in 21-23 when the real turnaround should happen, and a 27-28 year old bat on a 4-year contract fits that bill perfectly.