2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fish16]

We sign a solid Backup C and people are crying about it. He either looks solid and we trade him at deadline or he get concussion again and see ya.

Wallach will be the AAA C as soon as he DFA

AAA-Wallach/Lavarnway
AA-Navaretto/Chavez/Leon
Hi A-Fortes/BJ Lopez/Osborne
Lo A-Banfield/Skelton/Fish or Hernandez or whoever

Fortes and Banfield could be moved up a level too

AAA-Wallach/Lavarnway/Leon
AA-Fortes/Navaretto/Chavez
Hi A-Banfield/BJ Lopez/Osborne
Lo A-Skelton/Fish or Barstad or Hernandez or Arcaya

No real prospects except Banfield but lots of depth

Ban field should be kept at Clinton to start the year. Also, the only way that is considered depth is if you just count living human beings who put on catchers gear as depth. That catching position is the worst position on our system

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Outside of maybe 3b

[Namaste]

I mean it’s cool and all that our back up catcher had a 2.6 WAR as recent as 2018 but CAN YOU FEEL THE EXCITEMENT AROUND TOWN ABOUT ANOTHER 65-75 WIN SEASON?

[fish16]

“A few prospects, but nothing else” on a team with a top 5 farm system already to go along with a top 3 pick in the upcoming draft, along with no longer having any long term albatross contracts and a team that now is intensely focused on international players, good draft scouting, and spending money on the draft.

[Erick]

Never has a team needed an average player as much as the Marlins need Yasiel Puig. Product is boring.

[lou]

“A few prospects, but nothing else” on a team with a top 5 farm system already to go along with a top 3 pick in the upcoming draft, along with no longer having any long term albatross contracts and a team that now is intensely focused on international players, good draft scouting, and spending money on the draft.

Blue Jays signed over $100 million in SP this offseason so far. No chance of making the playoffs for a year or two. They have similar prospect core, even better as they likely have 1-2 ELITE ones.

This is what the Marlins should be doing with their open payroll to create a 2022 juggernaut. So far, they are under $20 with Villar, Aguilar, and Cervelli.

This is how a good franchise does to BUILD for the future. Villar was an incredible start - time to get a longterm right handed bat or eat payroll for prospects.

[fish16]

Blue Jays signed over $100 million in SP this offseason so far. No chance of making the playoffs for a year or two. They have similar prospect core, even better as they likely have 1-2 ELITE ones.

This is what the Marlins should be doing with their open payroll to create a 2022 juggernaut. So far, they are under $20 with Villar, Aguilar, and Cervelli.

This is how a good franchise does to BUILD for the future. Villar was an incredible start - time to get a longterm right handed bat or eat payroll for prospects.

They have signed over 100 million in sp’s, the vast majority of which going to ryu at 20 million per for 4 years. A 32 year old starting pitcher who has pitcher over 185 innings just once since he has been in the big leagues since 2013, while also missing the entirety of 2015 along with just a single start in 2016. Their offseason is incredibly moronic because they aren’t ready to win this year and have just spent a ton of money on 1 good but injury prone sp and two mediocre sp’s in Roark and Anderson. They should be significantly more expensive next year and that should catapult them all the way to..... 3rd at best In their division and likely 4th.

I’m cool with eating a little money to get some more prospects but standing pat and adding a few stop gap guys is exactly the route the marlins should be taking until next offseason

[lou]

They have signed over 100 million in sp’s, the vast majority of which going to ryu at 20 million per for 4 years. A 32 year old starting pitcher who has pitcher over 185 innings just once since he has been in the big leagues since 2013, while also missing the entirety of 2015 along with just a single start in 2016. Their offseason is incredibly moronic because they aren’t ready to win this year and have just spent a ton of money on 1 good but injury prone sp and two mediocre sp’s in Roark and Anderson. They should be significantly more expensive next year and that should catapult them all the way to..... 3rd at best In their division and likely 4th.

I’m cool with eating a little money to get some more prospects but standing pat and adding a few stop gap guys is exactly the route the marlins should be taking until next offseason

It's building a culture and showing those young kids management has their back, and locking in a piece for when they may be great in 2 years. Also, didn't you want the Marlins to sign Roark? Likewise, showing the fans you give a shit which the Marlins don't really do. Villar is a nice move, but they need more.

I'm not saying just blow money, but they should do something more than "Calhoun for 1 year" to start building a viable competitive team.

[fish16]

It's building a culture and showing those young kids management has their back, and locking in a piece for when they may be great in 2 years. Also, didn't you want the Marlins to sign Roark? Likewise, showing the fans you give a shit which the Marlins don't really do. Villar is a nice move, but they need more.

I'm not saying just blow money, but they should do something more than "Calhoun for 1 year" to start building a viable competitive team.

I’m cool with Roark on a 1+1. I wouldn’t have gone two years, nor would he have been in my top 5-10 choices of marlins free agent starting pitching candidates. But I really do t have a problem with him and his deal, it’s the ryu deal on a team nowhere close to contending.

And you can both build a culture and show the kids management has their back without going an unnecessarily long amount of years for guys who are only getting 2 year offers max. There is just no need to sign guys longer than two years (at least the guys currently available) to prove a point. That “proving a point” turns out to just be an albatross contract in 2-3 offseason from now when you’re actually ready to contend and a much better option is available but out of your salary constraints because you felt the need to prove a point via an injury prone non innings eating 32 year old starting g pitcher 3 years ago. That ryu deal is god awful for a team that isn’t contending either of the next two years in all likelihood

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It's building a culture and showing those young kids management has their back, and locking in a piece for when they may be great in 2 years. Also, didn't you want the Marlins to sign Roark? Likewise, showing the fans you give a shit which the Marlins don't really do. Villar is a nice move, but they need more.

I'm not saying just blow money, but they should do something more than "Calhoun for 1 year" to start building a viable competitive team.

I’m cool with Roark on a 1+1. I wouldn’t have gone two years, nor would he have been in my top 5-10 choices of marlins free agent starting pitching candidates. But I really do t have a problem with him and his deal, it’s the ryu deal on a team nowhere close to contending.

And you can both build a culture and show the kids management has their back without going an unnecessarily long amount of years for guys who are only getting 2 year offers max. There is just no need to sign guys longer than two years (at least the guys currently available) to prove a point. That “proving a point” turns out to just be an albatross contract in 2-3 offseason from now when you’re actually ready to contend and a much better option is available but out of your salary constraints because you felt the need to prove a point via an injury prone non innings eating 32 year old starting g pitcher 3 years ago. That ryu deal is god awful for a team that isn’t contending either of the next two years in all likelihood

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David Samson with a new podcast on how the blue jays trade went down. Long story short as many of us know they gave us the choice between Thor and nicolino. He’s super annoying but his podcast is super interesting to give fans the inside look at how deals go down

[lou]

And you can both build a culture and show the kids management has their back without going an unnecessarily long amount of years for guys who are only getting 2 year offers max. There is just no need to sign guys longer than two years (at least the guys currently available) to prove a point. That “proving a point” turns out to just be an albatross contract in 2-3 offseason from now when you’re actually ready to contend and a much better option is available but out of your salary constraints because you felt the need to prove a point via an injury prone non innings eating 32 year old starting g pitcher 3 years ago. That ryu deal is god awful for a team that isn’t contending either of the next two years in all likelihood

Not this franchise. They need to commit to serious moves and show a disenfranchised "fan base" they mean business. Likewise, this helps the TV deal and naming rights. Villar was a good start but they need to do more versus having the lowest payroll in baseball. They can do that and not clog the books.

Their expected payrolls right now with reasonable projections on club controlled players:
2020 - $57+ < - This is because of Chen, Castro, Villar ($30 million)
2021 - $48+ < - This is because of Chen ($15)
2022 - $44+ < - Alfaro, Anderson, Sandy, Pablo, and Caleb arbitration raises, or this could go down if they buyout Anderson and move Caleb, etc.
2023 - $50+ < - More arbitration raises, starts becoming unpredictable, opportunities to trade arbitration guys remain

They pretty much have 20+ guys internally for all of those years, if not closer to 22+. They don't need to spend money on a lot of guys, and some of the open slots are likely backup and bullpen roles. For 2020, they need just 1-3 guys. Presumably a long term right handed bat, a bench lefty, and maybe another lefty reliever. They should spend like $25 on those 3 guys, with the right handed bat being well over half of it, if not over $20 and front load a deal.

As mentioned, it's time to stagger free agency (or dead) money on 20/21 to create cheaper assets in 22/23 for when they likely are good.

Nothing they do clogs these books and creates an albatross. They could acquire Lindor/Betts and start paying them $30+ million a year, and add Ozuna/Castellanos at $16 a year, and the books aren't clogged and they have a bottom 7 payroll, lower than Oakland, Kansas City, and Detroit. I don't think you understand how low payroll is, and how low it's going to be with what's coming in the farm. They don't need to treadwater like 18/19 anymore, and new ownership can't wait till year 5 to do something.

[emkayseven]

I'm of the opinion that they just need to pander and sign Puig even if he isn't the best fit for the club and even if it's an overpay or we see diminishing returns. Second is Ozuna as I think he brings back some excitement for the "old days" as well and they can spin it as, we got your 2019 All Star and Jazz Chisholm and now we have Ozuna back anyway. I don't think Castellanos moves the needle -- I get he's local but I don't think that matters. (Did people show up to see Mike Morse? I get that Castellanos is better, but still)

Until this is a playoff team people won't show up no matter how exciting the players are so they need something else to root for. Cuban folk hero or a "coming home" story will draw some people and generate some buzz, nothing else will.

[lou]

I'm of the opinion that they just need to pander and sign Puig even if he isn't the best fit for the club and even if it's an overpay or we see diminishing returns. Second is Ozuna as I think he brings back some excitement for the "old days" as well and they can spin it as, we got your 2019 All Star and Jazz Chisholm and now we have Ozuna back anyway. I don't think Castellanos moves the needle -- I get he's local but I don't think that matters. (Did people show up to see Mike Morse? I get that Castellanos is better, but still)

Until this is a playoff team people won't show up no matter how exciting the players are so they need something else to root for. Cuban folk hero or a "coming home" story will draw some people and generate some buzz, nothing else will.

Castellanos helps to get to that playoff team the most though? All 3 are fine at the right price. It's all price dependent. Hopefully they decide to do the right thing and focus on the product.

[emkayseven]

Yes but so does Ozuna. And he has the added bonus of being interesting.

[Namaste]

Ozuna is way more interesting than Castellanos

Ozuna and Puig are basically neck and neck on the interesting needle (Ozuna being 2.5 Wins more valuable than Puig over the last 2 years).

[fauowls44]

Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Kole Calhoun has agreed to a contract with #DBacks, source confirms.
@MLB

@MLBNetwork

It'll be interesting to see what the contract looks like.

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Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Kole Calhoun's contract with the #DBacks is for two guaranteed years with an option for 2022.
@MLB

@MLBNetwork
12:05 PM · Dec 24, 2019·Twitter Web App

[tjfla]

Solid contract for a guy who sucks(Marlins board opinion)

Least its Puig/Dickerson/Mystery or trade now