2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Erick]

10/305 for Lindor. I’ll be surprised when this new ownership spends half of 305 on a player.

[Namaste]

They never even talked about signing Lindor. A massive contract for a massive superstar is the last thing our FO is discussing.

[lou]

10/305 for Lindor. I’ll be surprised when this new ownership spends half of 305 on a player.

If they did get him, any contract is all optics. He would opt out (he will be in his age 31 season in 5 years and could get a 7 year deal more than likely if still a stud dwarfing the $150+ he'd still be on the books for).

- - - - - - - - - -

They never even talked about signing Lindor. A massive contract for a massive superstar is the last thing our FO is discussing.

They have not, but I'm just saying, they have the prospect juice and open payroll to do it and then you have a star. Hopefully Sixto/Bleday or Jazz/Sanchez turns into a 2nd one, and then you're almost in business as there are another 8-10 guys who could turn into some good longterm regulars. That team starts getting interesting.

[rmc523]

Let's be honest. They're likely not giving out that kind of contract, so why waste the prospects.

[lou]

Let's be honest. They're likely not giving out that kind of contract, so why waste the prospects.

I agree they likely won't, but Lindor is probably one of the 10-15 guys in baseball you just say "fuck it" if the opportunity comes to get a super duper star in their prime. I don't think prospects are ever a waste for a top top player in their prime (who you can sign as he is 2 years from free agency and who is turning down $300+ with a 5 year opt out. What an insurance policy).

[rmc523]

I agree they likely won't, but Lindor is probably one of the 10-15 guys in baseball you just say "fuck it" if the opportunity comes to get a super duper star in their prime. I don't think prospects are ever a waste for a top top player in their prime (who you can sign as he is 2 years from free agency and who is turning down $300+ with a 5 year opt out. What an insurance policy).

Hey, you and I are on the same page with how this offseason should progress.

I'm just saying I wouldn't trade for him if there were 0 intent to even try to extend him.

[Lee Stone]

Lindor destination contest.

I'll guess Atlanta. SS D Swanson, OF Waters, Ian Anderson or Bryce Wilson, one other pitcher.

[tjfla]

So we don't have anything then lol.

No we have them committed but are waiting to see if they get ML deals. Happens every year guys commit to teams but dont sign right away to wait

- - - - - - - - - -

For sure.

Bleday/Jazz
Cabrera/Neidert/Garrett/Rogers
Misner/Scott/Jerar/Nunez/Devers
Stanek/Conley/Hernandez/Brigham/Quijada/Holloway
Outside top 35 throw in, lower than Mokma/Vesia/Encarnacion in prospect status

Lindor
B. Zimmer (don't need with Reyes, Deshields, Mercado, Luplow, Bauers)

Sounds like a plan in a 5-2. It would be hard to bet that offer from any other team.

Give Lindor 10/$305 to be cute with a 5 year opt out (split 5/$140 and 5/$165, this is basically valuing him $33 in free agency and $40 in 2 arbitration years).

All is well.

Alfaro, Whoever
Diaz, Cooper/Aguilar
Isan
Lindor, Berti/Rojas/Devers
Jazz or Anderson
Anderson or Bleday
Monte, Zimmer, Sierra
Sanchez

That'll work. Payroll is probably under $70 with the all internal team 21-22, and will start to ramp up in 23.

And I would STILL eat Will Myers for prospects in this scenario (but now pass on Castellanos/Ozuna)

- - - - - - - - - -

That's actually a fun idea. Eat Myers money to get prospects to deflect what you shot out for Lindor, and then use Villar to recoup another half decent one in the summer.

You probably can wipe out all the prospect losses with those acquisitions so it's effectively Bleday/Jazz and absorbing money for Lindor.

Got the answer to my question.

Miami is interested in Lindor or Betts


Buster Olney
Verified account @Buster_ESPN

High-ranking exec predicts that both Betts and Lindor will be traded this winter. Thinks it makes sense for both Red Sox and Indians to turn page, capitalize on value that is more likely to depreciate in the months ahead as Betts, Lindor edge toward free agency.

Issue is they arent gonna pay the price either of those teams want for them. They are fine throwing out a Devers,Jerar,SP,low level arm BUT arent trading Sixto,Cabrera,Bleday which is what they supposedly asked on. Maybe it they were signed long term. Miami is fine getting more talent this year and just wait for FA on those guys(remember they can offer 30 million/year and still be under payroll limit)

Boston asked for Bleday. Cleveland asked for Sixto or Cabrera. PLUS MORE!!!

- - - - - - - - - -

Lindor destination contest.

I'll guess Atlanta. SS D Swanson, OF Waters, Ian Anderson or Bryce Wilson, one other pitcher.

Cincy or SD. Cincy is favorite IF they include Senzel

[lou]

No we have them committed but are waiting to see if they get ML deals. Happens every year guys commit to teams but dont sign right away to wait

- - - - - - - - - -



Got the answer to my question.

Miami is interested in Lindor or Betts


Buster Olney
Verified account @Buster_ESPN

High-ranking exec predicts that both Betts and Lindor will be traded this winter. Thinks it makes sense for both Red Sox and Indians to turn page, capitalize on value that is more likely to depreciate in the months ahead as Betts, Lindor edge toward free agency.

Issue is they arent gonna pay the price either of those teams want for them. They are fine throwing out a Devers,Jerar,SP,low level arm BUT arent trading Sixto,Cabrera,Bleday which is what they supposedly asked on. Maybe it they were signed long term. Miami is fine getting more talent this year and just wait for FA on those guys(remember they can offer 30 million/year and still be under payroll limit)

Boston asked for Bleday. Cleveland asked for Sixto or Cabrera. PLUS MORE!!!

- - - - - - - - - -



Cincy or SD. Cincy is favorite IF they include Senzel

Cleveland should get a slightly heavier Realmuto package for Lindor and Boston a slightly lower Ozuna package for Betts.

Cleveland should be asking for Cabrera and more??? If Cabrera is their headliner run to do it without including the big 4 the marlins have.

Boston is stupid if they want Bleday. They should be looking at Cabrera, Neidert, and even Caleb, then finding two guys in the Marlins 15-30 they like.

- - - - - - - - - -

I would run to trade Jazz/Bleday, Cabrera/Neidert, Jerar/Devers, and Mejia/Palacios/Soriano/Fitterer for Lindor without an extension.

Throw up the $300 million and 5 year opt out and keep reminding him of it. I think you could convince guys to stay. They need to take some swings like this to secure Alpha players. They don’t have any.

- - - - - - - - - -

To be clear - this is offering Lindor the 4th largest contract in baseball history, 2 years away from free agency.

He’s saying no?

[Lee Stone]

Jazz AND Cabrera AND Mejia ... you'd send them packing for the opportunity to play Lindor for two years for maybe $40M. Shows how differently folks can perceive things.

Marlins went out and got Chisholm to be their Lindor kind of guy. He has that type of potential ... or at least in-the-ballpark upside. If you were to look around all of baseball in quest of the "next" Lindor, it would be Jazz IMO. Having a maybe star like Chisholm, who could give you greatness for absolute minimum dollars, is as good as it gets in baseball.

Cleveland has been winning division titles with great pitching, mostly young pitching. Edward Cabrera, above all others in the Marlins system, is looking like a Bieber to me. A case could be made that he has the most trade value of any prospect in our system. Note: Gallen enjoyed that status last season, despite any prospect "rankings." If he had remained with the Marlins, he'd be far and away the Marlins' #1 starter.

Mejia is looking like he could, possibly, be much like Cabrera. Simply put, I wouldn't give up the crown jewels to pay a single super star that alone would make little difference.

In reference to the Big Four Marlin prospects you referred to, who the hell are they? Seriously.

[fish16]

Lee stones ability to never realize that he is overrating or underrating every single prospect based on what they have done recently without taking into consideration age relative to level is honestly amazing

[Nick]

I don't trade for Lindor at all unless he's locked in with the club for at least the next five years.

Let's face it though, we've gotten absolutely zero indication that they're willing to give anybody more than 2 years, despite the fact that their payroll is pitifully low right now.

- - - - - - - - - -

https://www.fishstripes.com/2019/12/...couting-report

Fish Stripes Pre-Season Top 30 prospects.

[lou]

Jazz AND Cabrera AND Mejia ... you'd send them packing for the opportunity to play Lindor for two years for maybe $40M. Shows how differently folks can perceive things.

Marlins went out and got Chisholm to be their Lindor kind of guy. He has that type of potential ... or at least in-the-ballpark upside. If you were to look around all of baseball in quest of the "next" Lindor, it would be Jazz IMO. Having a maybe star like Chisholm, who could give you greatness for absolute minimum dollars, is as good as it gets in baseball.

Cleveland has been winning division titles with great pitching, mostly young pitching. Edward Cabrera, above all others in the Marlins system, is looking like a Bieber to me. A case could be made that he has the most trade value of any prospect in our system. Note: Gallen enjoyed that status last season, despite any prospect "rankings." If he had remained with the Marlins, he'd be far and away the Marlins' #1 starter.

Mejia is looking like he could, possibly, be much like Cabrera. Simply put, I wouldn't give up the crown jewels to pay a single super star that alone would make little difference.

In reference to the Big Four Marlin prospects you referred to, who the hell are they? Seriously.

Yea Lee, Lindor is a superstar top 10 player in baseball. What are you missing? What a steal for the Marlins if they get him for relatively any package.

I agree with you on Jazz, but the probability of the Marlins convincing Lindor to stay with a $300+ contract(!) is higher IMO than Jazz becoming 75% the player Lindor is. Marlins need to get 3 star players. They currently have none, and only Sixto, Bleday, and Jazz are probably their chances internally. Maybe Sanchez. Lindor is an alpha dog on a contender for years.

Mejia is a COMPLETELY different pitcher than Cabrera. He is a control/finesse guy, more like Neidert. His current projection is 4th SP. He is not a fireballer even if he is a nice looking player.

The Marlins top 4 are unanimous across all evaluation services - Sixto, Bleday, Jazz, and Sanchez. Giving up 1 of them for Lindor in a package is a no brainer.

- - - - - - - - - -

I don't trade for Lindor at all unless he's locked in with the club for at least the next five years.

Let's face it though, we've gotten absolutely zero indication that they're willing to give anybody more than 2 years, despite the fact that their payroll is pitifully low right now.

I'd do it and bank on convincing him to stay. They need to take some chances in getting a superstar. They can't expect to develop any, and they won't win wars against the Yankees (Cole) and Angels (Rendon) if money is relative in free agency.

[Nick]

Yea Lee, Lindor is a superstar top 10 player in baseball. What are you missing? What a steal for the Marlins if they get him for relatively any package.

I agree with you on Jazz, but the probability of the Marlins convincing Lindor to stay with a $300+ contract(!) is higher IMO than Jazz becoming 75% the player Lindor is. Marlins need to get 3 star players. They currently have none, and only Sixto, Bleday, and Jazz are probably their chances internally. Maybe Sanchez. Lindor is an alpha dog on a contender for years.

Mejia is a COMPLETELY different pitcher than Cabrera. He is a control/finesse guy, more like Neidert. His current projection is 4th SP. He is not a fireballer even if he is a nice looking player.

The Marlins top 4 are unanimous across all evaluation services - Sixto, Bleday, Jazz, and Sanchez. Giving up 1 of them for Lindor in a package is a no brainer.

- - - - - - - - - -



I'd do it and bank on convincing him to stay. They need to take some chances in getting a superstar. They can't expect to develop any, and they won't win wars against the Yankees (Cole) and Angels (Rendon) if money is relative in free agency.

Yeah, but if you can't convince him now, what makes you think you'll be able to change his mind within the next 2 years? The closer he gets to Free Agency the less likely he's going to want to sign an extension.

[lou]

Yeah, but if you can't convince him now, what makes you think you'll be able to change his mind within the next 2 years? The closer he gets to Free Agency the less likely he's going to want to sign an extension.

I have a very hard time believing he turns down 10/$305, the 4th largest contract in baseball history, more then Machado, and that includes 2 arbitration years where Machado included none so he's really blowing it out of the water. If anything, they'd need to go to 11/$331 and then he becomes 2nd highest contract over Bryce. With an opt out in 5 years.

Who is syaing no, and the Marlins have a lot of talent on paper