2018/2019 Offseason Thread

[Lee Stone]

Idk if i would do any deal that doesnt include at least one of those OF AND Rosario. Giminez seems like a good enough prospect but by all accounts he doesnt appear to be at the rosario level, even after rosario didnt light it up in his first year. I think there is a package that makes sense for both sides somewhere, but it seems like its a lot harder to find with the mets than it is with the braves and the astros. Unfortunately the mets also seem to be the team most willing to make the big splash an get JT for a good package.

Giminez is only 19, but regarded as highly as Rosario was at age 21 (he's now 23). He was pushed up all the way to AA last summer. Given Giminez upward trajectory, his timeline for arrival in the majors at age 21, and the Marlins' timeline, taking him vs. Rosario would not be a deal breaker to me.

[fish16]

Giminez is only 19, but regarded as highly as Rosario was at age 21 (he's now 23). He was pushed up all the way to AA last summer. Given Giminez upward trajectory, his timeline for arrival in the majors at age 21, and the Marlins' timeline, taking him vs. Rosario would not be a deal breaker to me.

Giminez is a good prospect, but he is not as highly regarded as Rosario was. Rosario was a consensus top 5 prospect in baseball prior to losing his prospect status after playing in MLB for too long and I believe Keith Law had him as his #1 prospect prior to his promotion. Giminez is more in the top 50-75 range, albeit a good prospect. Im not saying its a deal breaker to get Giminez, but the remainder of the offer would have to be higher if we chose Giminez over Rosario.

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Also, while prospects like Giminez can turn out well, guys who are young for levels and dont show much power scare me in terms of how their lack of power might show at higher levels. Rosario isnt a very powerful bat either, but just guys like Giminez who dont have power yet but are just projected to develop it over time scare me a little because there is obvious risk in just hoping or projecting a tool to improve over time. Although now that im looking at their minor league numbers compared, both have that problem a little bit. I just know that Rosario's hit tool is supposed to develop into a very good player an that he is more highly regarded overall.

[Lee Stone]

Giminez is a good prospect, but he is not as highly regarded as Rosario was. Rosario was a consensus top 5 prospect in baseball prior to losing his prospect status after playing in MLB for too long and I believe Keith Law had him as his #1 prospect prior to his promotion. Giminez is more in the top 50-75 range, albeit a good prospect. Im not saying its a deal breaker to get Giminez, but the remainder of the offer would have to be higher if we chose Giminez over Rosario.

agreed. However, two years ago, at age 21, Rosario had a prospect ranking of about 84. At only 19, Giminez is ranked about the same already.

[fish16]

agreed. However, two years ago, at age 21, Rosario had a prospect ranking of about 84. At only 19, Giminez is ranked about the same already.

fair enough, I just like the potential of Rosario's bat a lot more than Giminez. Also, something about acquiring a 20 year old that still has braces as the centerpiece of a deal scares the living shit out of me in a deal for our last huge piece of talent that we are trading who has value.

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And back to the issue of Giminez vs. Rosario's power- Rosario showed a ton more power his last 2 years in the minors despite the fact that he didnt show much his first few years which is why they both have similar minor league career slugging percentages. Rosario's is brought down by the fact that his numbers early on didnt show much power whereas Giminez power numbers are brought up by him crushing the DSL for 2 years in his first 2 years of pro ball. Id prefer Rosario's pedigree and the fact that his power improved with age as opposed to giminez showing less power as he gets higher in the system. He's obviously super young though.

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Honestly, any mets trade really just depends on the combination of players we get, not the players themselves. They have the talent to make us a fair deal, it just depends on which group of players out of the talent we select. But some combination of Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Alonso, Peterson, Giminez, Mcneal, is fair value for JT. It's just how the teams end up negotiating the final package.

The more i think about it though the more i really just prefer a package from the astros or braves, specifically the astros.

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It would be funny however for JT to get out of here in order to try to win and then he ends up on the mets long term. The mets to me have the look of a team who thinks they are crushing it in the offseason and then realizes in june that they absolutely fucked up their current chances as well as their long term outlook.

[Lee Stone]

20 year old that still has braces as the centerpiece of a deal scares the living shit out of me

Crooked teeth scare the shit out of me. See? Differences of opinion.

[fish16]

20 year old that still has braces as the centerpiece of a deal scares the living shit out of me

Crooked teeth scare the shit out of me. See? Differences of opinion.

Providing an example of a difference of opinion does not excuse you from evaluating players in methods that have proven to be less accurate and representative long term than the ones just about everyone else uses. One is an example of a difference in viewpoint that is subjective and the other being essentially proven statistically objective over a long period of time. Its like saying you liking pizza and me liking burgers as far as our personal preferences is the same as age relative to minor league competition being proven statistically significant.

[tjfla]

Deal is breaking down as NYM refuse to include Rosario in any deal and Miami then asked for Nimmo,Gimenez,Alonso and another prospect but were told Alonso is untouchable

Miami wants Rosario,Nimmo,Pitcher(Peterson,Kilome,Kay) and a C(d"Arnaud,Pawlecki,Nido) if NYM offer it the deal is done at this point they have NOT

Atlanta,Houston,LAD,Colorado still in on him. Few others include Minnesota,Milwaukee,Cubs,NYY,Philly,Oak

[fish16]

imagine having the balls to say that Peter fucking Alonso is untouchable in a deal for the best catcher in baseball. They say that and i move on immediately and tell the mets new gm to enjoy the fruits of his stupid labor that he's created in the last week or 2.

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good on the marlins. Nimmo, Rosario, Alonso is exactly what they should ask for and if they say no you say go fuck yourselves and move on to a good trade partner like the Astros and Braves.

[tjfla]

Denbo is trying hard to get something done with NYM but they wanna hold onto all there guys. NYM want a deal like

NYM-JT
Miami-Nimmo,Gimenez,Peterson

while Miami wants

NYM-JT/Rojas
Miami-Rosario,Nimmo,Peterson,C OR Nimmo,Gimenez,Alonso,C

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They are asking for too much from Houston right now which is why they signed Chirinois(they are still in on JT). Houston is willing to do Tucker,pitcher and Stubbs while Miami wants Tucker,better pitcher,another prospect and C

[fish16]

ya, thats when you tell the team without the top prospect trying to get the best catcher in baseball to fuck off. plain and simple you tell them you give us the offer we're looking for or we move on. Their players arent nearly good enough in comparison to guys we are looking at for JT for them to bitch about the particular combination of players. The mets are beyond poorly run still even with this new guy. no idea what their plan is.

[lou]

NYM-JT
Miami-Nimmo,Gimenez,Peterson

Nothing wrong with this at all.

Get Nido too.

[tjfla]

imagine having the balls to say that Peter fucking Alonso is untouchable in a deal for the best catcher in baseball. They say that and i move on immediately and tell the mets new gm to enjoy the fruits of his stupid labor that he's created in the last week or 2.

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good on the marlins. Nimmo, Rosario, Alonso is exactly what they should ask for and if they say no you say go fuck yourselves and move on to a good trade partner like the Astros and Braves.

They have and NYM have been talking with Grandal since like 5PM

[fish16]

Nothing wrong with this at all.

Get Nido too.

thats an absolutely trash offer.

[tjfla]

Nothing wrong with this at all.

Get Nido too.

Seems Miami wants Rosario OR Alonso in any deal.(Prefer Rosario) While NYM GM response is both are UNTOUCHABLE

[fish16]

Denbo is trying hard to get something done with NYM but they wanna hold onto all there guys. NYM want a deal like

NYM-JT
Miami-Nimmo,Gimenez,Peterson

while Miami wants

NYM-JT/Rojas
Miami-Rosario,Nimmo,Peterson,C OR Nimmo,Gimenez,Alonso,C

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They are asking for too much from Houston right now which is why they signed Chirinois(they are still in on JT). Houston is willing to do Tucker,pitcher and Stubbs while Miami wants Tucker,better pitcher,another prospect and C

you do that houston deal in a heartbeat. id add more major league players in order to get the package they want. I dont see why adding Rojas, Conley, Steckenrider, etc to a deal would make you hesitate if you're getting the package you want.

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Seems Miami wants Rosario OR Alonso in any deal.(Prefer Rosario) While NYM GM response is both are UNTOUCHABLE

that would literally be enough to get me to hang up the phone and straight up say under no circumstances will i be doing a JT deal with you and to kindly go fuck yourself.