2018/2019 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

I don't follow a word of this. The entire world (almost) knew that Realmuto wanted out of Miami. Lots of teams want him and the Marlins will get at least a couple players who will instantly top their prospect list.

There’s 0 reason to come out publicly and say that and it does his client 0 favors. It doesn’t hurt our leverage all that significantly as he will have a lot of suitors but from the perspective of his client it makes 0 sense to do this

[Lee Stone]

Not zero reason. I'm sure that his client would like to know where his new home will be ASAP.

[fish16]

Not zero reason. I'm sure that his client would like to know where his new home will be ASAP.

There is 0 positive for his client in doing that publicly. That actively makes it more likely the marlins aren’t going to get the package they need to deal him. You do it privately if you want and that is more than fine, but doing this provides quite literally 0 for your client.

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yup, there goes any leverage we had. Stanton all over again.



https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status...66919131660288

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I'm absolutely convinced now that we are going to get a garbage package rather than the franchise-altering one that he should be deserving of.

I think this very slightly hurts our leverage, but not really just because JT is still the best C in baseball and will have a lot of suitors regardless. This is just annoying because it is pointless for the agent to do it publicly.

This is also nothing at all like stanton in just about every way. Stanton was super expensive now and far into the future and JT has 2 years of team control left. Stanton had a NTC and would only go to 4 teams, 2-3 of which weren't actually all that interested. JT has no NTC obviously and is the best player at a position that is incredibly hard to find.

We should still get a big offer for him. I see this being between Washington and Houston and the first one to offer either Robles or Tucker.

[fish16]

I think it ends up being Houston. I see two things we could do: take tucker and a smaller package or Alvarez as the centerpiece and a bigger deeper group of prospects. Not sure which one id prefer to be honest but leaning tucker.

[Nick]

To be fair to Realmuto and his agent, this strategy worked like a charm for Yelich.

[dim]

Seriously. They're just doing what Yelich's agent successfully did.

At this point the team is just gonna tear all the way down, lose all its fans, and hope in 4 years time they're actually ok. Worked for Houston but you actually have to draft well for this strategy to pay off.

[lou]

I'm absolutely convinced now that we are going to get a garbage package rather than the franchise-altering one that he should be deserving of.

Not sure what you mean by franchise altering, but he should bring the Yelich package minus Monte. A great top 30 prospect, a good secondary back end top 100 guy, and a nice projectable arm. Maybe a throw in reliever too.

Teams are going to line up for him. There won't be an issue with Stanton's contract. They will do fine if they end up moving him.

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Seriously. They're just doing what Yelich's agent successfully did.

At this point the team is just gonna tear all the way down, lose all its fans, and hope in 4 years time they're actually ok. Worked for Houston but you actually have to draft well for this strategy to pay off.

I don't think trading Realmuto does anything for the fan base confidence. Rock bottom is rock bottom. I also think they should keep unapologetically make baseball moves and trade everyone not in the contending window. Realmuto is debatable if he refuses a deal. Getting plus prospects + extra money may make more sense.

Unfortunately, what they needed to do is keep Yelich, but since they moved him, moving JT isn't a bad idea. We always bitch they never sell high on guys and keep guys a year too long. Trading Realmuto right now is a sell-highest based on his best season to date and catcher landscape in baseball which is bleak. He's worth $70-80 million in surplus value easy. That's a lot for 2 years of control.

I'd just amend the 4 years to 3. If they trade Realmuto for at least two top 100 prospects (I see no problems there), they should have a really good roster (on paper) in 2021 plus a really good farm system considering a lot of early picks are coming.

[Namaste]

I'm just not sure how trading Stanton for peanuts last offseason, and making it clear that it was 100% essential that his contract be off the books and then signing a guy to a similar contract a year later makes sense.

It makes zero sense. If a guy who hit 59 monster dongs can’t be the face of the franchise, then no one can.

Only making the playoffs will bring fans back to Marlins Park consistently.

[lou]

I think it ends up being Houston. I see two things we could do: take tucker and a smaller package or Alvarez as the centerpiece and a bigger deeper group of prospects. Not sure which one id prefer to be honest but leaning tucker.

I hope it's not. VVM, Monte, and Scott are their best hitting prospects, Brinson is obviously a baby still with big upside, and within their next half dozen position prospects, B. Miller and Pompey show up. PLUS Sierra, B. Lee, Dean, and guys like B. Hernandez and Jones make some top 30 lists. They have an outfield.

Realmuto better get a 1/2 young stud Ace and a progressed better than Banfield or Devers/Osiris C/SS prospect as the top two guys. Ideally they get all three.

Call the Rays.

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Only making the playoffs will bring fans back to Marlins Park consistently.

Yes. This is why you unapologetically make baseball moves and build the contender. Restore complete fan confidence by building something sustainable you don't trade - unless it's a Rays style Archer trade which all the Tampa guys can get behind, etc.

[fish16]

Its just at the point now where fans will root for the team if they win and wont if they lose. Stop worrying about perception from the PTSD of past owners and just keep sticking to the plan and building from within. If you can get a top guy like Tucker or Robles + for JT thats a huge win. I still make one last effort for a 5 year deal.

[Maddawg]

Yeah, but I'm sure it will be incredibly skewed to make him (and probably Loria) look good, though.

Yep the Liar in Chief is more trustworthy than that little twerp.

[Maddawg]

Only thing that's going to fix the things that ail this franchise is winning.

Bingo - nailed it. 6 winning seasons in 26 seasons. Not been much to get fans on board with. Yes 2 World Series titles, but those seem completely arbitrary rather than planned attempts by the franchise to win - maybe 97 but 2003 was completely out of left field.

Now with JT opting to not sign - and another trade of a good player happening - how do you EVER start building confidence in the local fans. They have a much tougher job than they ever imagined.

And Machado to Miami, is a pipedream. He can live in Miami in the off-season and play with a real franchise. WHY sign with Miami ? Doesn't make any sense he would come here with a "hope" they are doing this the right way (and so far the results are dissappointing - Yelich for Brinson ?)

[Maddawg]

Seriously. They're just doing what Yelich's agent successfully did.

At this point the team is just gonna tear all the way down, lose all its fans, and hope in 4 years time they're actually ok. Worked for Houston but you actually have to draft well for this strategy to pay off.

My contention all along, and it's a VERY risky prospect, but they are going to do it. My fear is in 2021, you are still a 65-75 win team with no assets to rebuild a 2nd time because you did such a shitty job the 1st time and your drafting remains as putrid as we've been other than a few hits that even I could draft as a "joe fan".

If Yelich for Brinson stuff happens with JT, they will be worse off than even under Loria. With no money for FA (Machado is a pipedream LOL), it may be up to them to sell to someone that really understands this market and that they will be losing money for a while & no pie in the sky "Project Wolverine" plans.

[Maddawg]

Its just at the point now where fans will root for the team if they win and wont if they lose. Stop worrying about perception from the PTSD of past owners and just keep sticking to the plan and building from within. If you can get a top guy like Tucker or Robles + for JT thats a huge win. I still make one last effort for a 5 year deal.

You still miscalculate how much hate there is in Miami for the Marlins. I almost think it's a no-win situation and MLB wants desperately to find a way out. It was such a horrible mistake to send Loria here instead of with the Expos to Washington but Selig was willing to sacrifice the Marlins for having a sustainable winning franchise in Washington. Many people in So Fla see this, and now HATE Major League Baseball. There was no reason to make Loria come here - there would have been suitors to buy the Marlins franchise, and local ones at that, but it was SO necessary not to send Loria to Washington because Selig knew he was a fuck up and that he would have had the Nationals in the same boat as the Marlins are now.....and with the close proximety of such high level polititians Selig didn't want to piss them off.

Yes Fish16 even I just a "joe fan" can see this is what happened.

[Maddawg]

One problem with not moving JT last year. and I understand why it wasn't done, but to my point is, now you are going to have to do it again, trade one of the few players with some name recognition.

A 2nd year in a row.....

The healing process with the fans has to start ALL OVER again.

Jeter said things would be different, yet to the joe fan, what has changed from the Loria days ? NOTHING. Sometime this rinse and repeat cycled has to stop. Fans will think to themselves "is it going to be Anderson next year ? Why should I invest my time and heart into a franchise that just continues to destroy any faith I have in them".

Like I've said before the path they are on is VERY risky. They don't have the experiece of a Theo Epstein in their front office. They have a Michael Hill. His past results (never mind you saying he is respected in MLB - I have no idea why) have been less than spectacular under Loria or under Jeter - all losing seasons I believe (when did Beinfest leave ?).....Fish16 says I am cynical which is right but there isn't much to point to that this regime is doing to build even my confidence (and I know a little more than just an average fan) they know what they are doing. Brinson for Yelich (and yes that is how most of us guage their work so far) was a pretty bad deal and just horrible to help fan confidence.