2024 Game Thread

[lou]

Seems like you're down on Edwards and I don't understand why. If you're watching the games, Edwards has incredible bat to ball skills, Arraez levels, I'll go ahead and say it. Edwards 31/35 in SBs in 70 games. Over 162 games that comes out to 72 SBs. Will he continue to have a .398 BABIP? No, but I don't think .350-.360 is all that hard to believe, plus he only just turned 25, he's going to get better. He didn't fail at SS, the Marlins played him at a spot where almost everyone knew he didn't have the necessary skills to be able to fill that position, but he was put there because they threw up a prayer in a season that was lost, and they had failed to develop any other viable SS candidates. They should deal your boy Otto if anybody. Nice Bendix pickup, but clearly they don't see him as an everyday SS, or else they wouldn't have gone through with Edwards at SS. We don't need a light hitting great defensive 2nd Baseman. We need hitters and we need them desperately Edwards is a great hitter and will be for a long time in this league, you keep those around.

I agree with the bold and have been saying that for awhile? He should be a high BABIP player with the lack of whiffs + speed?????? I think we can all buy .280/.350/.375 being a base line, but that comes with very good base running and likely good defense at 2B which is a very good player. And there are good year spikes to that where he might hit .295-.310, and the downside may not be that vast with the speed to bloop his way on base. He's good, but he's not a .398 BABIP player, nor a SS. He failed at SS. He's one of the worst defensive players in the league at SS. Make no mistake about it.

I also have been saying this for weeks - they should trade one of Edwards, Serna, Otto, and Norby to alleviate a 2B logjam, but considering Norby might offer some hope at 3B (and can then become the LF probably as they have many left handed OF now and coming), and Otto will likely not attract enough significance in trade until he does it again as this year certainly came out of nowhere, the smartest idea to me is moving Edwards or Serna in a package for a SS or CF (that is of course, unless Serna + Otto can handle SS for years). If Otto can attract the value, sure send him out as they need hitters and they can do a lot of different things with their depth to trade for those hitters. Ultimately, any can go. Even past these guys, they have more 2B in the farm (Johnson, Pauley, Sanoja, maybe even Cappe reclaims some form or G. Miller looks OK in a year, etc.). There is just nothing at SS until they do actually sign Salas.

Frankly, I think they can trade all of this for a SS and CF and not bat an eye. That's 1 guy per line that is moveable:

Luzardo/Garrett/Weathers/Snelling
Noble/Max
Burger/DDLS/Martorella
Edwards/Serna/Norby/Otto
Mazur/Fulton/Benitez/Santana/May
Cronin/Tinoco/Mazur/Maldonado
Sanchez/Morlando/Head
Valor/Cova/Cruz

Turn 8 into 2. We won't bat an eye if that's a longterm SS and CF on paper losing 1 guy per tier above, and there is a SP + bat double centerpiece for each as something like Luzardo/Burger/Cronin (Boston needs lefty SP and righty bats, has many OF and IF options. K. Campbell seems perfect for CF, as well as Meidroth as a throw in for 3B/bench) and Noble/Serna/Head/Valor (Zach Neto) would be really epic additions for someone. If that gets the players the Marlins need, so be it. The Marlins have real depth they can move.

Pick and choose who you want to move and maybe your list would be different, I am just big picturing this on depth not picking who I think is smartest to move. But for me, it is probably..... Luzardo, Noble, Burger, Serna, Benitez, Cronin, Valor, and the lefty OF is harder so it would depend on who is coming back but ultimately can be anyone. I'd trade all of those 8 in a heart beat to get a long term SS and CF to match with Mack/Ramirez, DDLS/Martorella, Edwards/Otto, Norby, and Sanoja... which all of a sudden becomes really cohesive when "top 3 pick" in 2025 is added to this group... and you still have Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Max, and Garrett, Weathers, Snelling, White, and Fulton, with a full bullpen of reasonable options.

And this is the "don't spend money" approach where they will at least have bucks for 1 year guys.


Basically, Edwards is fine but could be expendable. We'll see what they do, but I don't see a McCann, Canha, and bader "barf" level offseason. That's a 2024 repeat with Anderson, Gordon, and Brujan. I think they will do trades. Maybe as not "big" as I mention above, but tangible moves in some capacity.

[Nick]

You bet on Stowers' contact profile being better IMO. You see the red on Stowers which is not there for Conine. Conine is ultimately, a very small sample size in September compared to being a relative non-prospect for years because of the whiffs.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb


They are overall, basically the same player and neither will make it striking out this much so this discussion may not matter. It probably boils down to one question - who do you think strikes out less? They should keep that one and the other probably is a 40 man cut

Conine is 6 months older than Stowers. They were both 2nd round picks.

[lou]

At some point you have to trust what you're seeing on the field. We saw both Stowers and Conine for a big chunk of the 2nd half, and Conine was clearly the more productive player.

You bet on Stowers' contact profile being better IMO. You see the red on Stowers which is not there for Conine. Conine is ultimately, a very small sample size in September compared to being a relative non-prospect for years because of the whiffs.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb


They are overall, basically the same player and neither will make it striking out this much so this discussion may not matter. It probably boils down to one question - who do you think strikes out less? They should keep that one and the other probably is a 40 man cut

[Nick]

I refuse to believe they don't get a SS and a right handed CF. They gave Edwards his shot at SS, he failed. It's time to move him to 2B.

This is also why I think Edwards/Serna is a trade chip as there is a 2B overload (as might be Norby's and Sanoja's best position too), as that would in addition to getting something else (i.e. part of that package for a SS or CF), open a 40 man spot to keep say Hill or get another OF (So Stowers can more easily stay in AAA). That's kind of important. Given Edwards has hit a bit (despite that .398 BABIP....), I imagine this is Serna being moved unless they are supremely confident Serna and Otto can handle SS for years.

Seems like you're down on Edwards and I don't understand why. If you're watching the games, Edwards has incredible bat to ball skills, Arraez levels, I'll go ahead and say it. Edwards 31/35 in SBs in 70 games. Over 162 games that comes out to 72 SBs. Will he continue to have a .398 BABIP? No, but I don't think .350-.360 is all that hard to believe, plus he only just turned 25, he's going to get better. He didn't fail at SS, the Marlins played him at a spot where almost everyone knew he didn't have the necessary skills to be able to fill that position, but he was put there because they threw up a prayer in a season that was lost, and they had failed to develop any other viable SS candidates. They should deal your boy Otto if anybody. Nice Bendix pickup, but clearly they don't see him as an everyday SS, or else they wouldn't have gone through with Edwards at SS. We don't need a light hitting great defensive 2nd Baseman. We need hitters and we need them desperately Edwards is a great hitter and will be for a long time in this league, you keep those around.

[Nick]

I think he is an easy 40 man cut or trade him to a team that wants him. He's a AAAA guy. Stowers has a better hit profile if either work out (but yes he seems underwhelming. Everyone strikes out too much here). Stowers does have an option so he can get 500 PA in AAA very easily next year and be a call up if say, Dane works out.

At some point you have to trust what you're seeing on the field. We saw both Stowers and Conine for a big chunk of the 2nd half, and Conine was clearly the more productive player.

[Nick]

barf

agreed, but that's what I'm expecting.

[sports24/7]

You’d have to assume they’ll trade Luzardo this winter, hopefully for a SS. If that’s the only SP they move, and they stay healthy next year, it’s probably not going to be an awful season regardless of how bad the lineup will be.

[lou]

This is what it looks like to me next year:

C: Fortes/???
1B/DH: Bride/Burger
2B: Otto
3B: Norby
SS: Edwards
LF: ??? (Conine?)
CF: ???
RF: Sanchez/Dane

UTIL: Brujan

If you count Conine that's 10 guys. 3 spots to fill. (Sanoja goes down for a little more seasoning)

If the opportunity comes to get a SS at any time, you take it, but Bruce ain't spending for Adames, and I'm not sure this offseason is the right time to try to deal one of our arms unfortunately. These guys have to come back, have to prove they're healthy and hopefully at that point we can make a killing at the deadline. Get that surefire stud SS or CF. Draft Holliday or one of those 2 College CF'ers. Then you get ready to rock. Next year will probably be rough again. Once this is all in place 2025/2026 Offseason would definitely be the time for Bruce to step up, but I don't think any of us are holding our breath.

I would say this (and the parenthesis is rest of 40 man):

C - Fortes, _____ (Ramirez, Banfield)
1B - Burger, Bride (DDLS)
2B - Edwards, Otto (Serna)
SS - ________
3B - Norby (Pauley)
LF - Stowers
CF - _______, Sanoja (Mesa Jr.)
RF - Sanchez, Dane
=19 Bats

------> Also Mack, Martorella, Berry, Marsee, and I guess Pintar not on the 40 man*


I imagine the catcher blank line is a short term vet signed to a MiLB deal, and when Eury IL'd that guy is immediately added and we're balanced back at 20


I refuse to believe they don't get a SS and a right handed CF. They gave Edwards his shot at SS, he failed. It's time to move him to 2B.

This is also why I think Edwards/Serna is a trade chip as there is a 2B overload (as might be Norby's and Sanoja's best position too), as that would in addition to getting something else (i.e. part of that package for a SS or CF), open a 40 man spot to keep say Hill or get another OF (So Stowers can more easily stay in AAA). That's kind of important. Given Edwards has hit a bit (despite that .398 BABIP....), I imagine this is Serna being moved unless they are supremely confident Serna and Otto can handle SS for years.


I don't think next year will be rough with Sandy, Luzardo, Cabrera (step forward coming), Garrett, and Weathers, with Eury trailing and Snelling is rising. Max is the only one I feel down on, but then he becomes an amazing max effort reliever but we'll see there. This team will have to be this injured again to be this bad again. You might be right that it is not the time to trade a MLB SP, but I'd just footnote that excludes Noble. With how good White looks and getting Snelling/Mazur (and Fulton back from injury, and they might have hit on at least some prospect status with K. Benitez (top 20 in system everywhere) or Y. Santana (FG loves)), something has to give here about circling 2028 and putting a viable product on the field. If Adames/Kim are not on the table, it's figuring out how to trade for the two big blank lines at SS.

For instance, the Angels are terrible and Ward can play CF (just gets pushed over because of other guys) and Neto is "perfect" for the Marlins positionally and production wise. The Angels are going to be terrible forever so while Neto is a building block, he is entering later arbitration when they may be good again. You may be able to convince them to move him. I predict Trout is traded by July 31st so it's a tear down. That's the kind of thing I look at where blow them out of the fucking water. Like you said Holliday or a college CF (both lefties) is coming (plus Salas the huge IFA name), so major BAT prospects are coming so blow out some bats with Noble and do a 6-2 like...... Noble, Head/Morlando (both lefties), Serna, Mazur/Fulton/Benitez/Santana, Valor (their best 18 year old lottery ticket), and Ekness/Carpio/Pushard (their best RP prospects). Those are huge additions for 2 years of Ward and 5 years of Neto and the Marlins have some kind of package to work that out. It would be their version of the "yelich" move. Ward is good for now, and Neto is good for hopefully 5+ years. Angels get restocked fast trading Trout, Anderson, Sandoval, Renifgo, etc. on top of this and getting themselves a top 3 pick in 2026.


Then you're aiming for this sooner rather than later, and have plenty of SP left over.

C - Mack, Ramirez/Banfield
1B - Burger, DDLS/Ramirez/Martorella/Berry
2B - Edwards, Otto
SS - Neto
3B - ______
LF - Norby, "Pick another of the RF guys/Marotorella/Berry"
CF - _______, Sanoja/Mesa Jr./Marsee
RF - Sanchez/Ward/Dane/Stowers/Martorella/Marsee

3B/CF - Holliday/LaViolette/Cannarella

3B/CF - Sandy or Luzardo trade



Just saying here, they have juice to make moves beyond $$$ and can find something better than a Bader, Canha, McCann and do nothing offseason. Maybe this is optimistic, but the farm is deep, the SP will be healthy opening, so when are they going to open the year with a good team as they genuinely probably just need 3-5 bats. They are very aware of the bad media coverage. Maybe Bruce is OK with this simmering for more years, but like when is the tipping point?

[lou]

Harrison Bader, Mark Canha, James McCann Free Agent signings.

1 year deals, deal them at the deadline.

barf

[lou]

What do you do with Griffin Conine? He was actually not bad at all in his time in the bigs. (relatively small sample 89 ABs) Hit for power, played great defense, struck out a lot, but about what he was doing in AAA. Also his K's were down 5% from what he did in 2023 at AA/AAA.

This'll be a tough call.

I think he is an easy 40 man cut or trade him to a team that wants him. He's a AAAA guy. Stowers has a better hit profile if either work out (but yes he seems underwhelming. Everyone strikes out too much here). Stowers does have an option so he can get 500 PA in AAA very easily next year and be a call up if say, Dane works out.

[fish16]

Death, taxes, and Aj puk giving up huge home runs in a key situation. Comes into a 0-0 game in the 9th on Saturday and gives up a single and 2 bombs immediately. He was great for them down the stretch but they could miss the playoffs depending on how things pan out today.

arraez won his 3rd straight batting title on his 3rd team

hoeing has also been great for San Diego since going
over there. If I had to pick a team to win it all this year they would be right up there but the playoffs are a crapshoot

[Nick]

Harrison Bader, Mark Canha, James McCann Free Agent signings.

1 year deals, deal them at the deadline.

[Nick]

This is what it looks like to me next year:

C: Fortes/???
1B/DH: Bride/Burger
2B: Otto
3B: Norby
SS: Edwards
LF: ??? (Conine?)
CF: ???
RF: Sanchez/Dane

UTIL: Brujan

If you count Conine that's 10 guys. 3 spots to fill. (Sanoja goes down for a little more seasoning)

If the opportunity comes to get a SS at any time, you take it, but Bruce ain't spending for Adames, and I'm not sure this offseason is the right time to try to deal one of our arms unfortunately. These guys have to come back, have to prove they're healthy and hopefully at that point we can make a killing at the deadline. Get that surefire stud SS or CF. Draft Holliday or one of those 2 College CF'ers. Then you get ready to rock. Next year will probably be rough again. Once this is all in place 2025/2026 Offseason would definitely be the time for Bruce to step up, but I don't think any of us are holding our breath.

[Nick]

Kyle Stowers seems like a miss to me at this point. He's got options, right? Send him to AAA, hope for a breakout.

[Nick]

Dane Myers: .867 OPS in 86 PAs against lefties at the big leagues. Jesus Sanchez .800+ OPS vs. righties this year. Let that platoon ride.