2023 Game Thread

[Namaste]

Puk needs to do something about the facial hair. It’s not good.

And if I remember correctly it used to be even worse. An intervention is needed.

[fish16]

brazoban is awful. They desperately need 2 more quality relievers.

[Nick]

brazoban is awful. They desperately need 2 more quality relievers.

Interested to see how Soriano does.

[fish16]

Interested to see how Soriano does.

Hope he does well, but he was pretty dismal in spring training in his couple of innings and got immediately sent down. They need outside help. I’m also interested to see what the hell happened to the richard Rodriguez guy they signed in spring. He had a good couple years in the bigs and signed late but I don’t even see him on a minor league roster

[Maddawg]

Arraez is HIM. Congrats to him and to the Marlins for finally getting a cycle

[fish16]

Arraez is HIM. Congrats to him and to the Marlins for finally getting a cycle

A positive maddawg post? Am I hallucinating

[fish16]

Arraez on pace for 297 hits, 81 walks, just 41 strikeouts, and 69 extra base hits. I know we all wanted him as leadoff hitter, but I kind of love him in the 3 hole with jazz leading off

[lou]

because your entire premise for andrus being a quality addition was based on a small sample size. He put up a WRC+ of 76 or lower every year since 2018 outside of a 43 game sample size last year with the white sox that you took as gospel. His entire value for his entire career has been defensively based. the guy hasnt hit for years and they needed hitters. Andrus wasnt doing jack shit to help this team. It's early on gurriel, but there were indications that he wasnt done last year and that his skill set could help this team, namely that he struck out just once in 50 plate appearances in a great world series run with the astros last year. plus he was decent enough against lefties last year. It's been apparent what he can bring already this year, and yes it is absolutely a small sample.

all of a sudden if he isnt as bad as he was last year and is somewhere in the middle of last year and 2021, they dont have a glut of "DH options" as you moaned on and on about when never quitting on the need for some defensive SS, they have 3 quality lineup pieces in Soler and Cooper and Gurriel who can each start at at least 2 positions in the lineup on any given night (including DH).

The entire 2022 season is not a small sample size for Andrus, let alone his career, and especially his career against lefties. Gurriel's rates all dropped dramatically (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-outl...-yuli-gurriel/), but if you want to do a victory lap on Gurriel through 22 PA with a .412 BABIP in those 22 magical appearances, you've fully gone into "Lee" territory. And I do not think consistently playing Soler in the OF (which is the only position you really mean when you say they can at least start 2 positions in the lineup), is a smart idea, especially when one's CF is a borderline circus show as he's learning the position.

You whiffed 0-3 on this one

[lou]

some gems from lou on arraez- "The idea you think a guy with 14 career HR in 1569 PA is a longterm 1B and one of the best pure hitters in baseball is what one would call really dumb. It's also ironic you dump on the Marlins collection of solid role players (Berti, Wendle, Rojas), yet want to trade for a younger/better version of one who is more apt to start in his prime. For perspective, this is like saying Rojas should have been moved to 1B after the 2017 season because he had a .361 OBP and that plays anywhere." This is correct, however if he is taking an Altuve slugging jump, he may get into that territory.

"But standing alone, trading for Arraez and playing him primarily at 1B (as they do have many LF options so that's where he would go), would be absolutely puzzling of a move." This is correct

"Selling the Marlins core assets for Arraez to play 1B of LF is crazy. That's my position here. Saying he is a longterm 1B/LF is insane. The guy has no power. You need some THUMP. He's a good player though and I would like him very much if the Marlins did not have Jazz." This is correct

"Or just look at better resources with Fangraphs. And Arraez is nowhere near one of the best hitters in the league. Please. This is correct. He won't be anywhere near the OPS leaderboards with his lack of slugging, but sure he gets on base a lot and is very valuable. The exception is, the slugging jump as mentioned.

Let's not trade the best or second best assets we have for a 2B we would then play at 1B because Jazz is better. OK? Thanks" This is correct

and the best of all- comparing Jon Berti to Arraez

"I mean he is good, but they have this player in Berti already and you'd be trading major assets for a guy whose best position is 2B. He is a bad 3B and would never play there, so then we're considering him.... the longterm 1B or LF? " This is correct. He shouldn't be a longterm 1B or LF. He plays 2B for a good team, or, he becomes a floater and does 100+ at 1B versus RHP and finds 40+ starts elsewhere in the field against lefties.

More whiffs here. See interleaved responses. 1-6 at best and that's assuming a meteoric slugging rise for Arraez. That's 1-9 in trying to come at me and I'm being generous. We'll see if he can slug well north of .475 like Altuve.

Arraez has had an amazing start, and I have always liked him - at 2B. The fact of the matter is he should be the team's 2B, but if positionally the defenders (Berti, Wendle) are better starters than some of the other 1B/OF types (Garcia, Sanchez, Cooper, Gurriell), yes it would make sense to play him against right handers at 1B and then figure out where he lands best around everyone else against lefties. It looks to me, what they *should* be doing while Wendle is hurt is bench Garcia and Sanchez, play Berti at SS, Soler in the OF, and let Gurriel play DH because Garcia, Sanchez, and Hampson are just that BLAH right now.

And, they still need to sign Arraez longterm to make this a good trade. Maybe you should go look at what Pablo is doing so they did in fact, give up a very significant asset. Plus prospects.


I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. Arraez has been great and he should be the team's 2B for years. Hopefully the Jazz conversion to CF works out and then they'll have a perfect 2B/CF situation for hopefully years. That's the story. They still desperately need a SS and that's waaaaaay more important than a bench 1B/DH type.

[lou]

Hope he does well, but he was pretty dismal in spring training in his couple of innings and got immediately sent down. They need outside help. I’m also interested to see what the hell happened to the richard Rodriguez guy they signed in spring. He had a good couple years in the bigs and signed late but I don’t even see him on a minor league roster

He was a steroid guy. I'm not expecting much.

[lou]

brazoban is awful. They desperately need 2 more quality relievers.

They need Cueto back so Cabrera/Garrett effectively become a reliever, Okert healthy, Chargois healthy, and Enright healthy. Also, Nance is also hurt and his underlying peripherals were solid last year so their primary call-up is also hurt. Plus Sixto I guess.

Literally half the anticipated bullpen is hurt right now based on those injuries. So it is difficult to evaluate things. You are right about one thing you've said though - pitch Puk more. Just throw your best relievers in 6th-8th to get to the 9th. The team is struggling to score, so stop saving the better arms and losing games in the 7th. Just let them rip and get the innings while everyone is hurt.

[fish16]

The entire 2022 season is not a small sample size for Andrus, let alone his career, and especially his career against lefties. Gurriel's rates all dropped dramatically (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-outl...-yuli-gurriel/), but if you want to do a victory lap on Gurriel through 22 PA with a .412 BABIP in those 22 magical appearances, you've fully gone into "Lee" territory. And I do not think consistently playing Soler in the OF (which is the only position you really mean when you say they can at least start 2 positions in the lineup), is a smart idea, especially when one's CF is a borderline circus show as he's learning the position.

You whiffed 0-3 on this one

andrus wasnt good the whole season. He hit .237, just above .300 OBP for the a's, with a sub .375 slugging percentage. There is a reason they got rid of him for nothing. He had a great month for the white sox to end the year. He was bad for the 4 years prior to that one month. His OPS+ for 2018-2021 was 78, 78. 60, 73.

And this whole idea that andrus is some lefty masher is just not based in any sense of reality. He is a career .723 OPS against lefties. He is a slap hitting, defensive first SS. He would have given us what rojas gave us last year, which didnt move the needle whatsoever. That's not what this team needed. Gurriel is a career .807 OPS against lefties, and he's good against righties too. Berti can take care of that SS role, as i was saying at the time. The team needed a potential run producing hitter. Sure, andrus would have improved the defense, but the defense is not even close to the biggest team need, plus wendle and Berti are quality defenders. they needed, and still need, run producing hitters.

Absolutely, gurriel had an awful year last year, but he had a great playoff run and provided to the astros exactly what we needed- contact, low k guys, who can drive in runs. He also has a not too recent history of having a huge year off of a down year. sure he's older, but he is sure as hell worth the risk of wasting money over andrus, who would have made this offense even more dreadful to watch. He's a career 86 OPS+, and that's including his peak years. He's been terrible for years, see his 2018-2021 OPS+ above.

If you have to make the outfield defense slightly worse, who gives a fuck, they need to score runs. It's not like Avisail garcia is a positive defensively either. If gurriel can give us gaby sanchez level production, that beats anything that Andrus ever would have provided to us. It's as simple as having Gurriel, Soler, Cooper, and DLC in a lineup as opposed to having Andrus, Garcia, Soler, and Cooper. The former is the clear better option for a team desperately searching for players who can drive in runs.

Also, you bring up gurriel's BABIP this year and dont even acknowledge what it was last year- it was .266. He isnt what he was last year, and he definitely isnt what he was the year before. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, and that is a much more important piece for us this year than anything andrus would have brought to the table.

[fish16]

They need Cueto back so Cabrera/Garrett effectively become a reliever, Okert healthy, Chargois healthy, and Enright healthy. Also, Nance is also hurt and his underlying peripherals were solid last year so their primary call-up is also hurt. Plus Sixto I guess.

Literally half the anticipated bullpen is hurt right now based on those injuries. So it is difficult to evaluate things. You are right about one thing you've said though - pitch Puk more. Just throw your best relievers in 6th-8th to get to the 9th. The team is struggling to score, so stop saving the better arms and losing games in the 7th. Just let them rip and get the innings while everyone is hurt.

they have absolutely had injuries, but this bullpen needed another piece or 2 even fully healthy. Agreed on puk, i want him as the closer, but if we're not playing a ton of close games, start using him in regular high leverage situations, dont just save him for closing opportunities.

Chargois getting healthy will help as he was great, but this whole idea that okert is anything significant is just misguided. He is a journeyman. The ERA's look nice, but the reality is his XFIP the last 2 years have been mediocre at 4.59 and 4.14. He is a middle reliever who got pretty lucky the last 2 years with balls in play. They need at least one more set up type right handed arm.

[fish16]

regardless of rehashing offseason debates, the lineup is starting to hit better, probably related to garcia going out and gurriel playing a little more plus small sample size bad luck starting to even out.

Overall, we're now 18th in BA, 24th in OBP, 21st in slugging, and the k's have started to slow down a little. If we can be in the upper teens or very low 20's offensively, they can hang around .500.

Let's see if cabrera can bounceback today. He will have command issues this year, but the mets really exacerbate those issues with their patience. Let's see what he can do today in a big game against a decent phillies lineup. He needs to show better command obviously but also pitch more efficiently to get deeper into games. I think he will get there. Nimmo, Marte, Lindor and Alonso is a ridiculously tough top 4 to have for your first two starts of the year.

[fish16]

not sure if anyone has listened to any of the games on the radio, but sielaff is really good. I hated DVH and thought geffner was pretty meh, but i like sielaff.