2018/2019 Offseason Thread

[Lee Stone]

MLB.com is NOT the place to look at rankings. They are good at scouting reports but rankings are terrible. Fangraphs is ALOT better

I think with any grading system you should focus on where those grades may be tending rather than where they are at the moment. On Alonso: Crappy fielder and roadblock on the bases. His inclusion shouldn't stand in the way of anything.

[Namaste]

Again, i never said they'd do it, i said its the type of flip id look for if we were able to get Nimmo and Rosario. Not sure how many times i have to say that before you stop wasting time misconstruing my argument.

And again, with the right moves this team has been set up to be fringe wild card contender at best in 2020 (similar to the phillies last year where they are in it but fade at the end of the year) and then ideally a contender in the future past that with a sustainable roster, not just a one time flukey team like any previous success this organization would have had. Just because you dont see it yet doesnt make it not true. If they nail the JT deal (getting a top hitting prospect/young player and a potential top of the rotation arm) they will have done a great job in turning around a team and specifically a farm system that had 0 shot of contending any time in the next 3-4 years when they first took over. The rebuild would still have a ways to go, but if you cant see how much closer this entire organization is as a whole compared to the loria years i suggest you do some more research into the way this organization was run under jeter and the improvements in every facet of the organization that the new ownership has shown a commitment to. Perhaps its not my kool aid but rather your now 5 month child like tantrum since the trade deadline.

This is fish16’s version of posting with substance, Erick.


Say the same fucking thing over and over again when you post just change the order around some from post to post.

Coming up with an idea to bring Corey Kluber to a 100 loss team is true SUBSTANCE.

[tjfla]

I think with any grading system you should focus on where those grades may be tending rather than where they are at the moment.

MLB.com bases ranking on where guys were drafted,how much signed for and stuff-NOT about stats. Reason why guys u love like Dustin Beggs is not in Top 30. Shit they dont even update height/weight usually until guy is on 40 man(VV is 5'9 160lbs according to them)

Very true about Alonso but 1B aren't usually know for fielding or speed. What they are known for is 30+HR. I agree with u but seems they want either Rosario OR Alonso in any deal with NYM

[lou]

And why label Nimmo as an overachiever for one year? He's put up nearly identical numbers in two consecutive years!

.355 career BABIP / .264 AVG. It's not like he is Dee Gordon where he can consistently survive on high BABIP years because he can fly (he had a .383 with the Marlins once which is ridiculous). That goes down 25 points and it's getting a little ugly. Objectively below average defensively. Big ISO/Slug spike this year.

But there is a lot to like. That BB rate is awesome, he does have a little power, speed, and average upside if he improves as he is young. Get better defensively and things change a lot.

He's just not 4.5 WAR good. That's all I'm saying. He's an Anderson, not a Realmuto.

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This is what Miami wants from Atlanta but havent been able to get

Riley AND 1 of Soroka/Anderson/Wright
AND
1 of Touki/Muller/Wentz

As for the NYM offer they are holding out for Nimmo/Gimenez/ALONSO if no Rosario(who they really want). They are cool with a Peterson/Kilome/Kay IF the other 2 are Rosario/Nimmo

With Houston they have been offered Tucker/Pitcher like Alcala,Javier,JB/C while they want Tucker/Pitcher like James,Martin,Perez/Mid level prospect/C

All 3 teams(Atl/NYM/Hou)are off 1 player in Miami's eyes. If any of those teams up's offer by 1 player it can get done(which is why alot of people think something happens)

This is all fine. Hold out for the better deal for now.

But the end of the day, Nimmo/Gimenez/Petersen isn't "trash." That's all I'm saying.

Would the Marlins trade Anderson/VVM/Neidert for Realmuto? That's the equivalent here. I think that's a fine offer.

[Lee Stone]

.355 career BABIP / .264 AVG. It's not like he is Dee Gordon where he can consistently survive on high BABIP years because he can fly (he had a .383 with the Marlins once which is ridiculous). That goes down 25 points and it's getting a little ugly. Objectively below average defensively. Big ISO/Slug spike this year.

But there is a lot to like. That BB rate is awesome, he does have a little power, speed, and average upside if he improves as he is young. Get better defensively and things change a lot.

He's just not 4.5 WAR good. That's all I'm saying. He's an Anderson, not a Realmuto.

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This is all fine. Hold out for the better deal for now.

But the end of the day, Nimmo/Gimenez/Petersen isn't "trash." That's all I'm saying.

Would the Marlins trade Anderson/VVM/Neidert for Realmuto? That's the equivalent here. I think that's a fine offer.

I merely think that Nimmo has huge value to a contending team that wants a .400 OBP atop their lineup without suffering any financial hit and needs a corner OF. Atlanta, Cleveland and Houston are at the top of that list.

[tjfla]

.355 career BABIP / .264 AVG. It's not like he is Dee Gordon where he can consistently survive on high BABIP years because he can fly (he had a .383 with the Marlins once which is ridiculous). That goes down 25 points and it's getting a little ugly. Objectively below average defensively. Big ISO/Slug spike this year.

But there is a lot to like. That BB rate is awesome, he does have a little power, speed, and average upside if he improves as he is young. Get better defensively and things change a lot.

He's just not 4.5 WAR good. That's all I'm saying. He's an Anderson, not a Realmuto.

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This is all fine. Hold out for the better deal for now.

But the end of the day, Nimmo/Gimenez/Petersen isn't "trash." That's all I'm saying.

Would the Marlins trade Anderson/VVM/Neidert for Realmuto? That's the equivalent here. I think that's a fine offer.

Yep especially when u can probably ask for another mid level prospect in that deal

That is the thing I dont understand. Gimenez will be a 20 yr old in AA this year-if u get him he could possible be in the Majors in 2020 and he is their #1 Prospect. I would be fine with Nimmo/Gimenez/Peterson/Will Toffey/Tomas Nido then flip Nimmo to Atlanta/Arizona/Cleveland for a young ML Ready SP and bat

SS Gimenez
SP Peterson
3B/1B Toffey
C Nido
SP McKenzie
1B Bobby Bradley

for JT

6 guys who ALL will be ML Ready by 2020

Then Rule 5 Draft get 2 guys u think can stick in 2020(SS Martin,RP Farrell,C)

[lou]

Hard to project one trade, let alone two, but sure. If you can extract more value out of Nimmo versus keeping him, ship him out. Who cares.

If nothing more, all this Mets chatter encourages Atlanta or LA or someone else to make a better deal. The Mets deal if true is a good floor.

This is why I mentioned at the start - pick up dead money. Lagares, D'Arnaud, etc. Sweeten that pot so they do chuck in a better 2nd or 3rd player, whether that is a Rosario-Gimenez or Alonso-Petersen upgrade or whatever. Chuck in a RP. A lot of options.

[tjfla]

My opinion is they are trying to get someone to OVERPAY before the Winter Meetings but once they start the price will come down to what teams are really offering and they will be choosing from offers like

Atl-Riley/Soroka/Muller
Hou-Tucker/Perez/Stubbs
NYM-Nimmo/Gimenez/Peterson/Nido
Col-Rodgers/Rolison or other SP/Nevin

Yes NYM and Atlanta offers are little more(They both are aware they gotta pay premium)

Grandal and Ramos sign and teams will become ALOT clearer

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A team to watch is the LAA. They want a FA C but if they miss out they could turn to JT

Jo Adell/Griffin Canning/Luis Rengifo/mid level arm could be very attractive

***Not in on him yet but possible***

[fish16]

This is fish16’s version of posting with substance, Erick.


Say the same fucking thing over and over again when you post just change the order around some from post to post.

Coming up with an idea to bring Corey Kluber to a 100 loss team is true SUBSTANCE.

another great post of no substance from you.

[Lee Stone]

I do understand why the Marlins are plodding along with Realmuto negotiations: it's the only real business they have to discuss. Once that deal is done, it's crickets until March.

[fish16]

and the rationale behind getting Kluber is not to contend this year, its in an effort to maximize the potential value you get out of JT and the pieces you get from his deal. You get a top 5 pitcher in baseball being paid probably half his market value under team control for another 3 years. Ya this season we would still be bad but you do it for 2020 and especially 2021 when he is still under team control. This team needs an ace and he would provide that for 3 years and would allow our good SP depth to develop without having the pressure on any of them to have to develop into significantly more than their ceiling. Moving each one of them back a spot in the rotation makes our future rotation even better and it would still be cheap as hell given that Kluber would be the only one making more than the minimum for a few years (assuming Urena is eventually dealt after next year or the year after).

And its only done if we get nimmo because i think the indians would have interest in him, i think he is being overrated, and he plays the position we have the most depth in the organization in. Theres no chance we ever do it but there is 100% a valid reason to go after him if they think they are fringe wild card threats (like the phillies this year who faded at the end) in 2020 and then contenders in 2021.

[Lee Stone]

i think he (Nimmo) is being overrated, and he plays the position we have the most depth in the organization in.

I'd describe it more as death than depth, but everyone has a point of view

[fish16]

i think he (Nimmo) is being overrated, and he plays the position we have the most depth in the organization in.

I describe it more as death than depth, but everyone has a point of view

you also think Ben Meyer, Braxton Lee, jeff brigham, and justin twine have bright futures.

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I do understand why the Marlins are plodding along with Realmuto negotiations: it's the only real business they have to discuss. Once that deal is done, it's crickets until March.

because there are other teams who need to make plans as well and they will move on from JT to other catching options if the marlins wait.

[tjfla]

Teams who WANT a C

Atlanta/NYM/NYY/Houston/Philly/Col/Houston/LAD/LAA/Minn/Milw

C on Market

Ramos/Grandal/Cervelli

Which means once those 3 do something u got 4/5 teams and JT sitting there.Teams then have to decide do they wanna go with Martin Maldonado/Tyler Flowers and McCann/Will Smith for WS Run or JT?

[Lee Stone]

you also think Ben Meyer, Braxton Lee, jeff brigham, and justin twine have bright futures.

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because there are other teams who need to make plans as well and they will move on from JT to other catching options if the marlins wait.

You'll probably be able to add Yamamoto and Neidert and Beggs and Richards and Lopez and Caleb Smith to my list of crystal ball failures too, but I don't recall ever asking anyone to agree with me.