2018/2019 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

Danny
@all_right_Miami
Fangraphs updated grades for Lewis Brinson

(Current/Future)

Hit: (40/50)
Game Power: (50/60)
Raw Power: (65/65)
Speed: (60/55)
Field: (50/55)
Arm: (60/60)

Interesting grades FWIW.

[fish16]

Fish Stripes
@fishstripes
The Statcast data from fall league is in. RHP Jordan Yamamoto maxed out at a 2,920 rpm spin rate on his curveball. No Marlins pitcher in 2018 had an average spin that high on their curve �� Bandwagon filling up!

this also interesting. I wonder if this is a big part of the reason we got him and if we are actually looking at these kind of advanced metrics now.

[flamarlins93]

Peters was never the same after he broke bone(s) in his pitching hand at Jacksonville. It was off a line drive and he missed a good portion of a year because of it.

Not seeing why they are collecting so many relief pitchers. Not only are they getting them in trades but last years draft seem to focus on mostly relief pitchers rather then starters. This was the one strength of the system when the took over. Plenty of big armed relievers with nothing else really. Yet that seems to be a major focus to keep adding more when other positions are still lacking.

One player I really want them to move on from is Cooper. He was horrible last year and I find it hard to believe that he just found his power two years ago in the minors at age 26. He went from a single digits a year to doubling his highest total in 2016.

I am honestly concerned for the future of the franchise. I don't see where the players that are going to turn around the big league club will come from. After JT is gone there is not much else to trade for impact talent. Everyone says last years draft was so good but the only player from the entire draft I am excited about is Banfield. If they are going to depend on the draft to build the major league team up it is going to take more then just 2-3 more years and that is if they hit on some picks big time since the draft it a big time crap shoot. Even if they get all the bad contracts or players up for arbitration off the books in the next couple of years I can't see them investing that money on big time free agents if the team is still years away from being relevant again. I see more Maybin type signings if any for the next few years. Not only that but the team is still hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. When purchasing the team they took on the debt that Loria accumulated but did not pay it off. I am still not sure why MLB didn't require them to.

[fish16]

They are collecting a lot of relief pitchers because those guys are a market inefficiency when they are valued so low just because they dont have SP ability despite the fact that a lot of them have pretty high floors as decent middle relievers.

[Erick]

They are collecting a lot of relief pitchers because those guys are a market inefficiency when they are valued so low just because they dont have SP ability despite the fact that a lot of them have pretty high floors as decent middle relievers.

Relief pitchers are a market inefficiency? What? Lol

[dim]

LOL of course the team traded Peters for basically nothing.

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See you all when he becomes Andrew Miller or Brad Hand without warning.

[emkayseven]

Relief pitchers are a market inefficiency? What? Lol

Relievers are undervalued until they’re major leaguers. When they’re minor leaguers they’re traded for peanuts. When they’re in college they’re drafted late. Then they’re successful in the majors and they’re worth a small fortune.


Last year’s WAR leaders for relievers:

1. Blake Treinen - drafted 23rd round (by us), then 7th round, then traded early career for John Jaso. Ended up getting traded for all star Sean Doolittle and postseason legend Ryan Madson.
2. Edwin Diaz - converted starter
3. Josh Hader - drafted in 19th round, converted to starter then back again. Traded twice (for Bud Norris and in a big package for Carlos Gomez)
4. Jose Leclerc- IFA signing for insignificant bonus
5. Craig Stammen - drafted 12th round, converted starter, non tendered twice before signing minor league deal

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LOL of course the team traded Peters for basically nothing.

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See you all when he becomes Andrew Miller or Brad Hand without warning.

Not really a good comparison, Peters doesn’t have anywhere near the same stuff

[fish16]

[FONT="][FONT="]Relievers are undervalued until they’re major leaguers. When they’re minor leaguers they’re traded for peanuts. When they’re in college they’re drafted late. Then they’re successful in the majors and they’re worth a small fortune. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Last year’s WAR leaders for relievers:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]

1. [FONT="]Blake Treinen - drafted 23rd round (by us), then 7th round, then traded early career for John Jaso. Ended up getting traded for all star Sean Doolittle and postseason legend Ryan Madson. [/FONT]
2. [FONT="]Edwin Diaz - converted starter[/FONT]
3. [FONT="]Josh Hader - drafted in 19th round, converted to starter then back again. Traded twice (for Bud Norris and in a big package for Carlos Gomez)[/FONT]
4. [FONT="]Jose Leclerc- IFA signing for insignificant bonus[/FONT]
5. [FONT="]Craig Stammen - drafted 12th round, converted starter, non tendered twice before signing minor league deal[/FONT]

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Not really a good comparison, Peters doesn’t have anywhere near the same stuff

Exactly this. These guys are very cheap because of their lack of a ceiling and if you scout well you can get really nice pieces for very cheap.

[lou]

Relief pitchers are a market inefficiency? What? Lol

Yea, not to pile on you here, but given that top relievers like Kimbrel may get $15-17 million a season for 70 innings, and even guys like Mike Dunn get 3/$19 deals, I think it's really smart to develop a club controlled reliever core so you can spend money elsewhere. Likewise, you can trade the top top guys for the best catching prospect in baseball these days which I still think is insane.

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[FONT="][FONT="]Relievers are undervalued until they’re major leaguers. When they’re minor leaguers they’re traded for peanuts. When they’re in college they’re drafted late. Then they’re successful in the majors and they’re worth a small fortune. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Last year’s WAR leaders for relievers:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]

1. [FONT="]Blake Treinen - drafted 23rd round (by us), then 7th round, then traded early career for John Jaso. Ended up getting traded for all star Sean Doolittle and postseason legend Ryan Madson. [/FONT]
2. [FONT="]Edwin Diaz - converted starter[/FONT]
3. [FONT="]Josh Hader - drafted in 19th round, converted to starter then back again. Traded twice (for Bud Norris and in a big package for Carlos Gomez)[/FONT]
4. [FONT="]Jose Leclerc- IFA signing for insignificant bonus[/FONT]
5. [FONT="]Craig Stammen - drafted 12th round, converted starter, non tendered twice before signing minor league deal[/FONT]

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Josh Hader and Blake Treinen were the best two pitchers on their playoff teams

[Lee Stone]

Speaking of late-blooming pitching: I've looked at Astros Josh James with interest. At age 26, he went from non-prospect to Houston's #4 and something like fangraph 95. I say this not because he's a potential Marlin in a Realmuto trade, but to introduce Dustin Beggs a year in advance. He's a year younger than James, and poised to climb from nowhere to top tier Marlin prospect if he maintains 2018 trajectory.

Buster Olney of ESPN had this to say about Realmuto yesterday: "Other teams that have checked in with Miami on Realmuto are convinced that the Marlins will end up keeping the catcher through the winter, because of the extremely high asking price they've placed on the veteran."

[tjfla]

So Dillon Peters got traded on waivers

Marlins got this guy from the Angels - https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.asp...801&position=P

Looks like a maybe reliever that doesn't need to go on the 40 man for awhile as a 2017 draft pick.

Glad they got something.

Stevens is a RP but actually looked great until he got to AAA as a 22 yr old.Probably needs 1 or 2 years but could be a future pen piece

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Speaking of late-blooming pitching: I've looked at Astros Josh James with interest. At age 26, he went from non-prospect to Houston's #4 and something like fangraph 95. I say this not because he's a potential Marlin in a Realmuto trade, but to introduce Dustin Beggs a year in advance. He's a year younger than James, and poised to climb from nowhere to top tier Marlin prospect if he maintains 2018 trajectory.

Buster Olney of ESPN had this to say about Realmuto yesterday: "Other teams that have checked in with Miami on Realmuto are convinced that the Marlins will end up keeping the catcher through the winter, because of the extremely high asking price they've placed on the veteran."

Just like Ben Meyer??

Josh James is a ML RP which is why Miami like JB AND Martin more

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Exactly this. These guys are very cheap because of their lack of a ceiling and if you scout well you can get really nice pieces for very cheap.

Its because EVERYONE wants to be a SP.

Guys want to be SP cause they get paid more
Teams want them to be SP cause they get more innings out of them

Its 1 thing that our previous FO did-everyone they drafted/got they tried to make a SP. Some guys are just RP and like doing it-if u keep them as a RP u can move them quickly through the system. See what LAA did with Tyler Stevens? Drafted in 2017 and was a 22 yr old in AAA last year. Under OLD FO we would have drafted him and he would be a 22 yr old in Batavia LY

[tjfla]

Miami is looking at Luis Cessa from NYY as a LR/Spot SP option

Also have gotten some calls on DD. Looks like they might deal him for low level guy. The $$ is an issue for teams however

[fish16]

Stevens is a RP but actually looked great until he got to AAA as a 22 yr old.Probably needs 1 or 2 years but could be a future pen piece

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Just like Ben Meyer??

Josh James is a ML RP which is why Miami like JB AND Martin more

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Its because EVERYONE wants to be a SP.

Guys want to be SP cause they get paid more
Teams want them to be SP cause they get more innings out of them

Its 1 thing that our previous FO did-everyone they drafted/got they tried to make a SP. Some guys are just RP and like doing it-if u keep them as a RP u can move them quickly through the system. See what LAA did with Tyler Stevens? Drafted in 2017 and was a 22 yr old in AAA last year. Under OLD FO we would have drafted him and he would be a 22 yr old in Batavia LY

You generally should try to make any pitcher work as a SP, but the reliever only types are becoming a market inefficiency because of how valued guys who can start have become. They are treated as if they are worthless but they do have a lot of value

[tjfla]

You generally should try to make any pitcher work as a SP, but the reliever only types are becoming a market inefficiency because of how valued guys who can start have become.

True what I am saying is if u know a guy is a RP(5'10 220lbs/5'8 175lbs OR has been a Closer in College) keep them there and move them quickly thru the system. This new FO seems to know it as they did it with Zach Wolf this year or what LAA did with Tyler Stevens

If a guy is 6'5 220lbs and has shown the ability to throw multiple innings like Colton Hock/Ethan Clark then by all means try them as a SP

Most scouts/talent guys can telll quickly what guys are

[Lee Stone]

Tjfla, do you just make things up and pass them on as facts? Josh James is a ML RP which is why Miami like JB AND Martin more
James enjoys a 55 rating compared to 50's for the other two. He has an effective developing change. He had three starts and three relief appearances for Houston in September - effective in both roles. According to MLB.com, Martin and Bukauskas are the more likely relief pitchers.