2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

wtf does forget him even mean about sixto. He had 1 injury filled year last year, but the guy was as dynamic and overpowering as anyone I've ever seen in their first taste of the big leagues at such a young age. That seems like a ridiculous overreaction. He does need to take it more seriously and get himself in better shape, but forget him seems like a ridiculous take on Sixto.

[fish16]

Getting Buxton and signing him long term would be the most impactful thing we can do this offseason long term short of signing a bunch of free agents to big deals, which is obviously unlikely. That guy is a flat out superstar when healthy, and as someone who has had him on my fantasy team for several years now, his injuries are not the type of nagging leg/knee injuries like Stanton had, he has had a lot of plain bad luck and the rest of them are just recklessness from him in the field that he can control. Trade for him, sign him long term, tell him to stop running full speed into walls and other human beings and maybe put a little extra padding on the wall and you can get a transcendent talent for a relative discount long term. If Buxton had no health issues he would be in the tatis type contract conversation, he's legitimately that good.

[rmc523]

Ignoring the premise of this is very difficult as Buxton signing away ages 28-32 without getting 33/34 included one year from free agency doesn't add up (basically, he becomes Starling Marte in 5 years begging for 3rd/4th guaranteed years at healthy clips so why would he do that? This is his moment to lock in those prices for 7-8 years and give away his prime)....

Buxton played like a 9+ WAR player last year per 600/PA, and for his career played as a 4+ WAR guy when healthy. His floor is very, very, high with his defense and out of this world base running. It's basically trading for Yelich. Yes - Yelich's contract was half that price at the time of trade, but, Yelich was undersold by the Marlins, we have inflation of prices (including prospect packages) across the league, and Buxton is coming off a "best player in baseball when healthy" type season. I don't think his injury concerns undersell him at all. You can't acquire these types of players so you swing for the fences when available. He is a franchise changer if he plays 120 games a year.

So what's the Yelich trade for the Marlins? Probably something like this in a 5-2, and Garver is also included. The bolds is I think what I'd expect. Two top prospects, a really nice third player, and two decent flyers including a play now pitcher like Neidert who may just need a scenary change.

Meyer/Cabrera/Sixto/Luzardo/Eury/Eder (we'll keep Sixto here until I see more info at WTF Mish is talking about?)
Watson/Jesus Sanchez/Bleday/Salas
Burdick/Nicolas/Fulton/Mack/Misner/E. Hernandez/Thompson
Poteet/Neidert/Holloway/Garrett/Fitterer
Outside top 30 prospect arm

I'd call the Buxton contract 7/$150 (with an 8th year club option) FWIW.

I'd do it. Blow it all out - and keep Pablo(!) - and then sign another bat and lefty reliever.

Unless Mish's "forget about him" is BECAUSE he's going to be shipped out in a trade?

[Namaste]

Good point

[fish16]

listened to all but the last 10 minutes of the mish podcast that just came out-

highlights- He's not gonna report stuff unless it is about to happen or close so that he doesn't ruin a potential deal.

Castellanos and Marte are guys they have interest in but he doesn't think their offer will be good enough for marte and castellanos is going to be a guy who signs in like February and he isn't sure they will wait on something like that given the interest he will have.

buxton- there is definite interest but issues that need to be worked out. Minnesota has their own disagreement within their own front office about trading him and going full on rebuild or keeping him. Then there is the issue of an exclusive window to negotiate an extension for him before the trade goes through or whether they risk it and try to figure it out in the next year before free agency. then there is the issue of adding garver to a deal which would obviously increase the price.

[fish16]

Rays continue to be great at running an organization as a whole. Franco signing a 10 year 200 million deal that will cost them up front but likely save a ton of money down the line given how good he is, how young he is, and how much he would command on the open market when he would have gotten to that point in a few years.

[rmc523]

Rays continue to be great at running an organization as a whole. Franco signing a 10 year 200 million deal that will cost them up front but likely save a ton of money down the line given how good he is, how young he is, and how much he would command on the open market when he would have gotten to that point in a few years.

Sherman needs to wake up and smell the coffee when the Rays can spend $220M on a player.

[fish16]

needless to say, if we can get buxton and garver for just a bunch of prospects AND most importantly sign buxton to a long term deal around 100-120 million over 5-7 years or whatever it will cost, they just need to do it. Especially the garver addition to a trade like that, that is the type of move that improves this lineup so fucking much and really leaves them with very little to do additionally with the lineup the rest of the offseason. maybe 1 more duvall type signing to make sure the outfield is complete for next year until Burdick and bleday will realistically be ready to play everyday, but that lineup would be so much better for the next 2 years, especially if jazz takes another step and Lewin can be what he showed to end the year.

C- Garver
1b- Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson
LF- Duvall type
CF- Buxton
RF- Jesus Sanchez
DH- Aguilar and Cooper

That is terrific, few holes, and will give you more than enough offensive firepower in my mind (obviously needs to stay healthy) to allow you to compete with the rotation we will have. Risky with the injury potential, but well worth the risk given the upside you would have there. Only other thing that would need to be done is the backup C and a couple of quality bullpen signings. We wouldn't be breaking the bank at all though.

[fish16]

Sherman needs to wake up and smell the coffee when the Rays can spend $220M on a player.

over 10-12 years that's not all that much considering the talent and likely production he will bring. Franco is almost a surefire superstar in the making. It's the epitome of a deal that makes a ton of sense for both sides. Rays lock the guy up long term before the price gets astronomical, franco gets paid a shit ton in his team control years and locks in a pay day, albeit at the expense of a potentially even bigger deal had he gone year to year and eventually reached free agency. It's just the way we should also be running the organization- in a way that can develop transcendent talents, recognizing that star level ability, and then locking them up early before they get into the price range long term that would not be able to bring sustainable winning.

[rmc523]

over 10-12 years that's not all that much considering the talent and likely production he will bring. Franco is almost a surefire superstar in the making. It's the epitome of a deal that makes a ton of sense for both sides. Rays lock the guy up long term before the price gets astronomical, franco gets paid a shit ton in his team control years and locks in a pay day, albeit at the expense of a potentially even bigger deal had he gone year to year and eventually reached free agency. It's just the way we should also be running the organization- in a way that can develop transcendent talents, recognizing that star level ability, and then locking them up early before they get into the price range long term that would not be able to bring sustainable winning.

The point is, they're spending money.

Passan is reporting it's 12/$185 guaranteed, with the ability to max out at $223.

[fish16]

The point is, they're spending money.

Passan is reporting it's 12/$185 guaranteed, with the ability to max out at $223.

agreed. This offseason will tell us all we need to know about this ownership group. they need to spend money and they need to spend it intelligently.

[lou]

needless to say, if we can get buxton and garver for just a bunch of prospects AND most importantly sign buxton to a long term deal around 100-120 million over 5-7 years or whatever it will cost, they just need to do it. Especially the garver addition to a trade like that, that is the type of move that improves this lineup so fucking much and really leaves them with very little to do additionally with the lineup the rest of the offseason. maybe 1 more duvall type signing to make sure the outfield is complete for next year until Burdick and bleday will realistically be ready to play everyday, but that lineup would be so much better for the next 2 years, especially if jazz takes another step and Lewin can be what he showed to end the year.

C- Garver
1b- Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson
LF- Duvall type
CF- Buxton
RF- Jesus Sanchez
DH- Aguilar and Cooper

That is terrific, few holes, and will give you more than enough offensive firepower in my mind (obviously needs to stay healthy) to allow you to compete with the rotation we will have. Risky with the injury potential, but well worth the risk given the upside you would have there. Only other thing that would need to be done is the backup C and a couple of quality bullpen signings. We wouldn't be breaking the bank at all though.

I like the idea of doubling up longterm with two CF - call it Buxton/Garver for Cabrera/Watson/and friends and Pablo for Marsh/and friends

Sign Buxton longterm, and sit on Marsh, Sanchez, Bleday, and Burdick for a year and see what happens. If all 4 work out, you can trade 1 and the other DHs.

You just shed some serious pitching with something like this.... but that's why you got Luzardo AND can sign a 3/4 in free agency for a year while we see what happens with Eder recovery/Nicolas/Fulton/Eury/etc.

[fish16]

Im ok with trading Cabrera or meyer but I think Watson should be off limits. Only bats I'm really ok dealing are the lower level SS's other than Watson like Salas, Lewis, etc. and then OF's like burdick, Misner, and Scott. Watson I think can be lindor-ish and id like to see him develop more and see more of what he is before dealing him, he's just that talented. I think you deal from the SP depth that they have developed because I think we have enough depth already both in the majors and in the upper minors that I don't think it would effect them too badly and I think it has a lot less of a chance of biting them in the ass later on. Make it Sixto/Cabrera, Meyer, and maybe a lesser guy like Nicolas or Mccambley and then add a guy like Ian Lewis or Salas. that might be a little much but you get the idea, trade from your point of depth not only at the prospect level but already established in the big leagues.

Watson and maybe Bleday would be the only 2 off limits to me.

[sports24/7]

wtf does forget him even mean about sixto. He had 1 injury filled year last year, but the guy was as dynamic and overpowering as anyone I've ever seen in their first taste of the big leagues at such a young age. That seems like a ridiculous overreaction. He does need to take it more seriously and get himself in better shape, but forget him seems like a ridiculous take on Sixto.

It was obviously vague, so we don’t know exactly what he meant. But I don’t think it has to do with Sixto’s talent, but rather his character/work ethic. It certainly felt like there were some questions about his rehab with how long it took, and some people suggested that was on Sixto. My take from what Mish said is that Sixto may not be all that committed to baseball. We’ll see what happens, though, and I hope I’m wrong. But Mish is pretty locked in to what’s happening in the organization, so I doubt he’s just throw something like that out with no basis for saying it.

[lou]

Im ok with trading Cabrera or meyer but I think Watson should be off limits. Only bats I'm really ok dealing are the lower level SS's other than Watson like Salas, Lewis, etc. and then OF's like burdick, Misner, and Scott. Watson I think can be lindor-ish and id like to see him develop more and see more of what he is before dealing him, he's just that talented. I think you deal from the SP depth that they have developed because I think we have enough depth already both in the majors and in the upper minors that I don't think it would effect them too badly and I think it has a lot less of a chance of biting them in the ass later on. Make it Sixto/Cabrera, Meyer, and maybe a lesser guy like Nicolas or Mccambley and then add a guy like Ian Lewis or Salas. that might be a little much but you get the idea, trade from your point of depth not only at the prospect level but already established in the big leagues.

Watson and maybe Bleday would be the only 2 off limits to me.

I'm ok with two major arms (Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Sixto, Meyer, and we'll put Eury and Eder here), one major bat (Watson, Bleday, J. Sanchez, Salas), and 2-3 other solid pieces (Elisier, Fulton, Nicolas, Neidert, Poteet, etc.) if it nets two longterm CF and a catcher with a few years of time. If this is Buxton/Garver and Marsh as a hypothetical, who cares if you don't have 5-6 of those guys above, if you have those three (plus an extra prospect of two for Marsh). As long as Buxton signs longterm, you are good. Watson will never be as good as Buxton. The probability he becomes a 4+ WAR player is extremely low.