2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[sports24/7]

listened to all but the last 10 minutes of the mish podcast that just came out-

highlights- He's not gonna report stuff unless it is about to happen or close so that he doesn't ruin a potential deal.

Castellanos and Marte are guys they have interest in but he doesn't think their offer will be good enough for marte and castellanos is going to be a guy who signs in like February and he isn't sure they will wait on something like that given the interest he will have.

buxton- there is definite interest but issues that need to be worked out. Minnesota has their own disagreement within their own front office about trading him and going full on rebuild or keeping him. Then there is the issue of an exclusive window to negotiate an extension for him before the trade goes through or whether they risk it and try to figure it out in the next year before free agency. then there is the issue of adding garver to a deal which would obviously increase the price.

Just listened, and I would add that he also addressed the rumors about the Blue Jays catchers. He said he finds it hard to believe that the Marlins would go after a guy like Kirk when they stress fitness as much as they do. He mentions Moreno, and says that he doesn't have any info on that, but he thinks that might be a more realistic option (which would be everyone's preference anyway I would think). He says that he thinks there is something to the Marlins and Blue Jays talking, and said he would be paying attention to that.

He also said, they may be involved in free agency to a degree, but he said he thinks they're going to make a major trade, maybe the biggest trade of the offseason, and maybe multiple trades. That's probably the biggest statement. He said he thinks there is a blockbuster deal coming eventually, or at least that they're trying to make one. Outside of Buxton, I wonder what other deal would qualify as THAT big. Moreno would probably be an interesting one. Same with Marsh. But I don't think either of those would necessarily qualify as a huge trade on a national scale, as most MLB fans probably wouldn't know the names of just about anyone involved in what those deals would probably look like. So that's very interesting, and makes you think about who else might be an option.

[lou]

Just listened, and I would add that he also addressed the rumors about the Blue Jays catchers. He said he finds it hard to believe that the Marlins would go after a guy like Kirk when they stress fitness as much as they do. He mentions Moreno, and says that he doesn't have any info on that, but he thinks that might be a more realistic option (which would be everyone's preference anyway I would think). He says that he thinks there is something to the Marlins and Blue Jays talking, and said he would be paying attention to that.

He also said, they may be involved in free agency to a degree, but he said he thinks they're going to make a major trade, maybe the biggest trade of the offseason, and maybe multiple trades. That's probably the biggest statement. He said he thinks there is a blockbuster deal coming eventually, or at least that they're trying to make one. Outside of Buxton, I wonder what other deal would qualify as THAT big. Moreno would probably be an interesting one. Same with Marsh. But I don't think either of those would necessarily qualify as a huge trade on a national scale, as most MLB fans probably wouldn't know the names of just about anyone involved in what those deals would probably look like. So that's very interesting, and makes you think about who else might be an option.

The trade market makes sense to me, because, they can trade minor league assets, and get rid of Pablo, (Cabrera/Meyer/Sixto/Eury), (another major prospect), Elisier, Cooper, Bass, and Bleier and that sheds over $10m dollars... and likely adds everything they need on the MLB roster except bench/bullpen arms (e.g., cheap). Maybe they need an innings eater.

If they do that (let's say Meyer is traded), and it's Buxton, Garver, and Marsh as the 3 big bats, payroll is sitting at $45m for this. It's a salary wash, and may even go DOWN.

Garver, Alfaro (yes, even includes him!)
Aguilar, Lewin
Jazz
Rojas, Berti(maybe upgraded here)
Anderson, ______
Sanchez, De La Cruz (Bleday/Burdick coming)
Buxton
Marsh

Sandy, Rogers, ____, Luzardo, Cabrera
Floro, Bender, Thompson, Sixto*, Pop, Head
_____, Okert

They could spend big on two short term pitchers, and a viable bench guy. This team is potentially really awesome


*(100+ innings, groomed for rotation in August so I don't get yelled at)

[fish16]

Just listened, and I would add that he also addressed the rumors about the Blue Jays catchers. He said he finds it hard to believe that the Marlins would go after a guy like Kirk when they stress fitness as much as they do. He mentions Moreno, and says that he doesn't have any info on that, but he thinks that might be a more realistic option (which would be everyone's preference anyway I would think). He says that he thinks there is something to the Marlins and Blue Jays talking, and said he would be paying attention to that.

He also said, they may be involved in free agency to a degree, but he said he thinks they're going to make a major trade, maybe the biggest trade of the offseason, and maybe multiple trades. That's probably the biggest statement. He said he thinks there is a blockbuster deal coming eventually, or at least that they're trying to make one. Outside of Buxton, I wonder what other deal would qualify as THAT big. Moreno would probably be an interesting one. Same with Marsh. But I don't think either of those would necessarily qualify as a huge trade on a national scale, as most MLB fans probably wouldn't know the names of just about anyone involved in what those deals would probably look like. So that's very interesting, and makes you think about who else might be an option.

other than buxton jose ramirez would be a name that would be an amazing fit but I doubt Cleveland makes him available. his contract is pretty ridiculous though in a good way.

[fish16]

clint frazier has been released by the Yankees. I think they will be after him and on a 1-2 year deal as someone who isn't expected to be more than a 4th OF id love it. talented guy, lots of injuries, and never ever found his footing or got a consistent playing time in new york. he was acquired in denbo's time there and if you have him and De la Cruz as your backup OF's that's pretty good and unlike a lot of guys we've had over the years, that's 2 guys who wouldn't be black holes in the lineup if injuries happened, which they always do. De La Cruz is due for a regression but I still think he can be a harold ramirez type which is a roster worthy guy.

[fish16]

also think that if we need pitching depth at the major league level, I have said it before but jon gray is due for an ascension after leaving Colorado. get him in our ballpark on a mid sized deal and only rely on him as a 4/5 ideally, and I think you can get some really good production with a change of scenery to better pitchers parks.

And on a side note- if garver isn't a guy they can get or the buxton trade never surfaces, give me kelly or Varsho for something like elieser and mccambley/nicolas and I think that's still an enormous improvement. Regardless, catcher is going to be filled by a trade, likely in a bigger deal for a more major piece.

[rmc523]

also think that if we need pitching depth at the major league level, I have said it before but jon gray is due for an ascension after leaving Colorado. get him in our ballpark on a mid sized deal and only rely on him as a 4/5 ideally, and I think you can get some really good production with a change of scenery to better pitchers parks.

And on a side note- if garver isn't a guy they can get or the buxton trade never surfaces, give me kelly or Varsho for something like elieser and mccambley/nicolas and I think that's still an enormous improvement. Regardless, catcher is going to be filled by a trade, likely in a bigger deal for a more major piece.

Regardless of what moves are made this offseason, I want a vet SP innings eater guy. We end up needing one every year and never get one.....they go too far down the scrap heap and wind up with nothing (like Gio last year), or count on all young guys and there are inevitable injuries.

[sports24/7]

The trade market makes sense to me, because, they can trade minor league assets, and get rid of Pablo, (Cabrera/Meyer/Sixto/Eury), (another major prospect), Elisier, Cooper, Bass, and Bleier and that sheds over $10m dollars... and likely adds everything they need on the MLB roster except bench/bullpen arms (e.g., cheap). Maybe they need an innings eater.

If they do that (let's say Meyer is traded), and it's Buxton, Garver, and Marsh as the 3 big bats, payroll is sitting at $45m for this. It's a salary wash, and may even go DOWN.

Garver, Alfaro (yes, even includes him!)
Aguilar, Lewin
Jazz
Rojas, Berti(maybe upgraded here)
Anderson, ______
Sanchez, De La Cruz (Bleday/Burdick coming)
Buxton
Marsh

Sandy, Rogers, ____, Luzardo, Cabrera
Floro, Bender, Thompson, Sixto*, Pop, Head
_____, Okert

They could spend big on two short term pitchers, and a viable bench guy. This team is potentially really awesome


*(100+ innings, groomed for rotation in August so I don't get yelled at)

Yeah, the trade market makes sense for them, although I do really hope they fill at least one need via FA, and my preference would be an OF. Obviously if you're doing that, you don't have to dip into your farm system as much. We know they're already going to do that for one impact bat, so adding another impact bat without giving anything up would be nice, and they should most definitely be able to afford to do so. Especially if they're doing most of the rest of their damage trading for guys who probably are going to be controllable.

[rmc523]

Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association have agreed to move this year’s deadline for teams to tender contracts to arbitration-eligible players up from December 2 to November 30 at 8:00 pm EST, according to reports from Robert Murray of FanSided and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic (Twitter links).

[lou]

Yeah, the trade market makes sense for them, although I do really hope they fill at least one need via FA, and my preference would be an OF. Obviously if you're doing that, you don't have to dip into your farm system as much. We know they're already going to do that for one impact bat, so adding another impact bat without giving anything up would be nice, and they should most definitely be able to afford to do so. Especially if they're doing most of the rest of their damage trading for guys who probably are going to be controllable.

I agree they need to sign a major FA, but I think it's a SP at this point. Especially with the projected prices of players.

I think the issue with OF is, they need a CF if they are spending money, and it's Marte or bust. And he's 33 and going to get $20m a year. I'll take him in a second, but there is obviously a lot of competition for him. Who cares about a corner player honestly. They have that covered (Sanchez, Bleday, Burdick, and Cooper and De La Cruz may be good platoon guys, and maybe someone like Misner, Jerar, or Scott work out and also force their way into the conversation). I guess we could say Chris Taylor, but he is a different player and has draft pick compensation.

Which leads back to trading Pablo, one of Meyer/Sixto/Cabrera, and likely 2-3 other strong secondary guys (Elisier, Fulton, Nicolas, I. Lewis, Burdick, etc.) for two CF and a C. I really like the double CF idea as it future proofs injuries. You can always find corner players. Look at the Braves at the deadline.

If they dish Pablo for Marsh/friends, and Meyer/Hernandez/friends for Buxton and and Garver, they are completely set up in the OF going Bleday/Sanchez-Buxton-Marsh for years (I'm assuming a Buxton extension), and that's the best defensive OF in baseball. It'll be cheap too with 3 club controlled guys and Buxton isn't a $25-30m player.

Garver, Alfaro ($6m combined)
Aguilar, Lewin ($8m combined)
Jazz ($750k)
Rojas, Berti ($6.5m combined)
Anderson ($4.5m), ____________
Sanchez, De La Cruz ($1.5m combined)
Buxton ($8m)
Marsh ($750k)
=$36m + _______ a bench 2B/SS/3B type

Sandy, Rogers, _______, Luzardo, Cabrera/Sixto ($8.5m combined, assuming no radical Sandy frontload)
Floro, Bender, Thompson, Sixto/Cabrera, Pop, Head ($6m combined)
Bleier, Okert ($3m combined)
=$17.5m + ____________

$53.5m-ish bucks - And if you keep Nick Fortes instead of Alfaro, and Cooper instead of Aguilar, you are shedding at least $6m bucks off this and moving that to $47mish land.

Based on what DeScalfani and Matz are getting in free agency, you can probably sign Jon Gray for 3/$42-45 or 4/$52. He's 30 years old and a very consistent 2.5+ WAR player, and he has massive untapped upside getting out of Colorado.

That's the guy. Blow out all the pitching and sign Jon Gray. Get a solid bench option, and payroll is easily under $70m dollars. This is a really good team.

And I don't think the future is mortgaged as that team above is very club controlled for awhile. The OF (add Bleday, Burdick, Misner, Scott, etc.) is covered. SP is very covered (add Eder, Eury, Nicolas, Fulton, etc.). They will need to do some work on the infield as C, SS, and 3B need longer term options.... but payroll is still $70m with Anderson/Rojas, so they can use that money to sign someone, and they have a plethora of IF options coming (Watson, Nunez, Morisette, Salas, etc.). That can be figured out. Draft a college IF in this year's draft and hope he moves fast.


Or sign Marte and keep Pablo. Either way, it works.

I am pumping myself up for failure aren't I?

[rmc523]

I am pumping myself up for failure aren't I?

Yes, haha. We all appreciate the work/thoughts, but I fear it'll all be moot.....

They'll sign "Washed up 'name' player A", "Beyond Washed up 'name' player B", and trade for "minor league guy with 'potential' C", and try to portray it like they made major moves.

[sports24/7]

Castellanos is at the Panthers game tonight, apparently. Probably doesn't mean anything as he's from South Florida. But worth noting.

[rmc523]

Well, the Mets signed Marte for 4 years, 78M

[Namaste]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Nick]

Not ideal.

[Maddawg]

Now two bats you could've signed, now on division rivals...way to go Kim Ng. I swear they seem determined to make the Marlins losers forever. Welcome to permanent 90+ loss seasons. But do remember 90+ loss seasons still means HUGE profits for them if they keep the payroll low.