2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[rmc523]

I’d rather have someone proven than another prospect, whether “ready” or not.

[lou]

He also said that the deal they'd make with the Twins including Buxton would be the only move that would singlehandedly make them a contender in 2022. So that would certainly seem to mean Buxton and Garver, but you'd think something else fairly substantial as well, because I don't think those two alone make you a contender immediately. I'm curious who else that would be, and what they'd have to give up.

Personally, I'd be all for this. Yes, the injury risk is significant with Buxton, but you're taking on risk with whoever you trade for unless you completely gut the farm system and some of the big club, which defeats the purpose. You're not going to get the chance to trade for Juan Soto or Ronald Acuna. But give me a guy that is in their league, but comes with injury questions over paying a similar price for someone you're going to have to gamble on them developing into a good player like a Brandon Marsh. Not that I'd be against trading for Marsh, but I'd much rather a guy who you don't have to hope he defies the odds to become that good if I have the chance. The deal would have to come with an extension, though, for me.

I think they need a mix. The answer is not three club controlled guys ready after the Super 2 deadline, and it's not 3 high price free agents.

I think this is a (1) major free agent, likely without draft pick compensation attached. Then, (2) a major young guy with 5+ years of control so that person builds around the Jazz/Rogers/Sanchez/etc. timeline. Then, (3) 2-4 short term veterans to plug immediate holes with another bat, bench infielder, lefty reliever, maybe an innings eater, etc. Something for the future and spending some short term money on holes.

If Buxton and Garver is the hypothetical (and I too am fully on board), I'd love to see something like:

Buxton and Garver ---> Meyer headliner, no other top 8-10 prospect, few other lower level guys not named Eury/Watson/Salas

Toronto Catcher / Brandon Marsh / Other long controlled guy (as well as other prospects) - > Pablo headliner, dump Bass/Cooper on them in this deal, maybe Elisier depending on the deal

FA SP - > 1-2 years, to replace Pablo. This is a $20-30m expenditure. So real money.

Depth - > Bench infielder, bullpen lefty. This is another $10-15m for 2022, decent money.


For the sake of an idea, let's say Meyer is a Twin, Pablo/Elisier/Bass go for Marsh (and prospects), all the lower prospects make sense to send out/in in the Twins/Angels deal. Cooper is dumped at some point for money/positional needs.

MLB roster is like this, around $80m.

Garver, Alfaro (I keep Alfaro as a premium backup here, he is better than Fortes today)
Aguilar, Lewin (Can save money with Cooper over Aguilar)
Jazz
Rojas, Berti
Anderson, "Veteran Backup"
Sanchez, De La Cruz
Buxton
Marsh

Sandy, Rogers, "FA SP", Luzardo, Sixto/Cabrera
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Pop, Head
"Veteran lefty", Bleier, Okert

AAA - Sixto/Cabrera, Bleday

Top prospects (ignoring Sixto/Cabrera) - Watson, Eury, Bleday, Eder, Mack, Salas, Nicolas, Fulton, Burdick, I. Lewis, Nunez, Scott, Misner, etc. (and very good 2022 draft picks).


That is a fantastic team on paper to open the year and I would be proud of them of they did something like this. You can extrapolate that to 40 WAR relatively conservatively, and that gives them a real chance if they get 2+ mega breakouts from Jazz/Sanchez/Buxton/Marsh/Luzardo/Sixto/Cabrera/Bleday breakouts. If the OF all work out and there is a Buxton extension, they have at least 1 major trade candidate in Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick to fill gaps at the deadline and not dip into more pitching depth.


The possibilities are endless. It's time for them to operate as a major league baseball team. This is the minimum. Honestly, they should dump Correa/Seager/Bryant/Story on top of this and beat their chests with STILL a payroll outside top 10.

[lou]

*Or Marte, and then have the best OF defense in baseball, and then trade one of Bleday/Sanchez immediately for pitching. I like this better actually as Marte is cheaper/no draft pick and lets you move a major OF today for an arm.

[sports24/7]

I think they need a mix. The answer is not three club controlled guys ready after the Super 2 deadline, and it's not 3 high price free agents.

I think this is a (1) major free agent, likely without draft pick compensation attached. Then, (2) a major young guy with 5+ years of control so that person builds around the Jazz/Rogers/Sanchez/etc. timeline. Then, (3) 2-4 short term veterans to plug immediate holes with another bat, bench infielder, lefty reliever, maybe an innings eater, etc. Something for the future and spending some short term money on holes.

If Buxton and Garver is the hypothetical (and I too am fully on board), I'd love to see something like:

Buxton and Garver ---> Meyer headliner, no other top 8-10 prospect, few other lower level guys not named Eury/Watson/Salas

Toronto Catcher / Brandon Marsh / Other long controlled guy (as well as other prospects) - > Pablo headliner, dump Bass/Cooper on them in this deal, maybe Elisier depending on the deal

FA SP - > 1-2 years, to replace Pablo. This is a $20-30m expenditure. So real money.

Depth - > Bench infielder, bullpen lefty. This is another $10-15m for 2022, decent money.


For the sake of an idea, let's say Meyer is a Twin, Pablo/Elisier/Bass go for Marsh (and prospects), all the lower prospects make sense to send out/in in the Twins/Angels deal. Cooper is dumped at some point for money/positional needs.

MLB roster is like this, around $80m.

Garver, Alfaro (I keep Alfaro as a premium backup here, he is better than Fortes today)
Aguilar, Lewin (Can save money with Cooper over Aguilar)
Jazz
Rojas, Berti
Anderson, "Veteran Backup"
Sanchez, De La Cruz
Buxton
Marsh

Sandy, Rogers, "FA SP", Luzardo, Sixto/Cabrera
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Pop, Head
"Veteran lefty", Bleier, Okert

AAA - Sixto/Cabrera, Bleday

Top prospects (ignoring Sixto/Cabrera) - Watson, Eury, Bleday, Eder, Mack, Salas, Nicolas, Fulton, Burdick, I. Lewis, Nunez, Scott, Misner, etc. (and very good 2022 draft picks).


That is a fantastic team on paper to open the year and I would be proud of them of they did something like this. You can extrapolate that to 40 WAR relatively conservatively, and that gives them a real chance if they get 2+ mega breakouts from Jazz/Sanchez/Buxton/Marsh/Luzardo/Sixto/Cabrera/Bleday breakouts. If the OF all work out and there is a Buxton extension, they have at least 1 major trade candidate in Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick to fill gaps at the deadline and not dip into more pitching depth.


The possibilities are endless. It's time for them to operate as a major league baseball team. This is the minimum. Honestly, they should dump Correa/Seager/Bryant/Story on top of this and beat their chests with STILL a payroll outside top 10.

Yeah, I'd be all for this as well. I don't think they're going to go out there and acquire a handful of guys who either cost money now, or will cost a lot in the future. But if they could use their biggest chips on a proven stud like Buxton, I'm all in. If you get a guy like Buxton AND a guy like Marsh, that's a very exciting offseason. I'm still interested in the deal Mish was alluding to, though. He said he couldn't get into details, but that it would be "the only potential trade out there that can singlehandedly make the Marlins a threat in 2022". Maybe he's just talking Buxton and Garver, but I don't think those two alone make them a threat. You still need another OF and RP at minimum. So I do wonder if this potential deal would be bigger. Maybe he wasn't being literal, but that was my initial thought when reading it.

[sports24/7]

Someone also asked Mish which of the following three would be most likely to come to Miami: Marte, Castellanos, and Garcia. His answer was Garcia. While that's not nothing, if he's your big ticket move, that would be really underwhelming.

[lou]

Yeah, I'd be all for this as well. I don't think they're going to go out there and acquire a handful of guys who either cost money now, or will cost a lot in the future. But if they could use their biggest chips on a proven stud like Buxton, I'm all in. If you get a guy like Buxton AND a guy like Marsh, that's a very exciting offseason. I'm still interested in the deal Mish was alluding to, though. He said he couldn't get into details, but that it would be "the only potential trade out there that can singlehandedly make the Marlins a threat in 2022". Maybe he's just talking Buxton and Garver, but I don't think those two alone make them a threat. You still need another OF and RP at minimum. So I do wonder if this potential deal would be bigger. Maybe he wasn't being literal, but that was my initial thought when reading it.

Donaldson too if we get wacky with Twins ideas. Kick Anderson to the OF and this is one stop shopping, absent bench/lefty relievers. That sheds A LOT of money off Minnesota. They have a ton of cool young bats, so they'd probably be thrilled with Meyer/Cabrera, Elisier, Fulton/Nicolas, McCambley, Bass, Poteet/Neidert, and Pop/Head/Holloway. Literally 6-7 arms and can probably get away without moving Pablo.

[lou]

Someone also asked Mish which of the following three would be most likely to come to Miami: Marte, Castellanos, and Garcia. His answer was Garcia. While that's not nothing, if he's your big ticket move, that would be really underwhelming.

Garcia is fine if you're getting Buxton/Marsh/etc. and "Toronto Catcher," as well as replacing Pablo with a FA # 4 or better SP as he'd be in one of those trades.

[sports24/7]

Garcia is fine if you're getting Buxton/Marsh/etc. and "Toronto Catcher," as well as replacing Pablo with a FA # 4 or better SP as he'd be in one of those trades.

Agreed. If there are other, bigger moves that's fine. If he's THE big move, which I'm a little worried will be the case, that would be a problem for me.

[lou]

Agreed. If there are other, bigger moves that's fine. If he's THE big move, which I'm a little worried will be the case, that would be a problem for me.

If he is the big move, it's burning money.

They are good at not doing that, so I couldn't even begin to imagine they choose to have a team destined to fail and want to pay Avisail $30-45m just because.

[sports24/7]

If he is the big move, it's burning money.

They are good at not doing that, so I couldn't even begin to imagine they choose to have a team destined to fail and want to pay Avisail $30-45m just because.

I think the moves they made last offseason were burning money. A lot less than it would be here, but I thought they just made signings to make it look like they were trying.

[Nick]

I think the moves they made last offseason were burning money. A lot less than it would be here, but I thought they just made signings to make it look like they were trying.

I have to agree. Corey Dickerson, Anthony Bass, Adam Duvall are not signings by a team that is actually trying to compete. They could’ve done nothing.

[lou]

I have to agree. Corey Dickerson, Anthony Bass, Adam Duvall are not signings by a team that is actually trying to compete. They could’ve done nothing.

Sure, Avisail is going to double all of them combined though. That's what I mean.

They'll do more Dickerson/Duvalls and we can all stop caring forever, or Garca is a "last piece" type of signing if they do sign/trade for others

[sports24/7]

Sure, Avisail is going to double all of them combined though. That's what I mean.

They'll do more Dickerson/Duvalls and we can all stop caring forever, or Garca is a "last piece" type of signing if they do sign/trade for others

I hope you're right, but I'm worried an Avisail move would just be one of those other moves to make it look like they tried, but this time when they had a lot more revenue to spend. I think they're going to kick the tires on other moves, I just hope they have a realistic estimation of what it would cost.

[lou]

Saw some strange rumor Yankees want Pablo and two of their prospects were floated Vargas (top 75 prospect, SS) and Waldichuk (solid lefty reliever prospect). Doesn't add up at all, but I was thinking about this, what could the Yankees offer that's interesting if they do want a cheap pitcher?

Gleyber Torres (1.7 WAR in a down year, projected 3+ WAR next year). Let the infield fall as it may with Jazz/Rojas/Torres, someone can play 3B here, kicks Anderson to RF, and now we're still on the whole "CF and C" needed band wagon. But now, you have another top IF prospect (Watson, Salas, Nunez, Cappe, Morisette, etc.) you are able to move immediately.

Yankees are probably something like this without Gleyber:

Sanchez
Voit
DJ (Wade)
_________
Urshela
Gallo
Hicks (Florial)
Judge
Stanton

Cole, Montgomery, ______, Taiilon, Cortes/German
Chapman, Loaisaga, Green, Luetge, Holmes, King, etc.


This lets them spend BIG on Correa/Seager/Story right now (and their two top prospects are more SS/IF to eventually replace DJ/Urshela). This is their motivation - go after the SS as an upgrade. Then they can throw remaining money for luxury pitchers/bench/OF help.

Cooper makes sense for them too as 1B help/part time LF/RF/DH (especially since Gallo/Judge can dabble in CF). Why not Bleier also, they can find CC lefties I guess(?)

I think something like

Pablo, Cooper, Bleier, lesser prospects outside Marlins top 15, for
Gleyber, Vargas, Waldichuk works


This is going to decrease payroll nominally. Marlins then have plenty of cash and prospects to address C and CF, as well as sign free agent depth pitchers/bench.


So many options, but this could work if Yankees are splurging on a SS and need to offset that with some cheap pitcher/bench players.

Anyways. Slow day.

[sports24/7]

So apparently the Marlins won’t add Conine to the 40 man before the deadline because they’d rather risk losing him than dumping the dead weight at the bottom of the roster. This may not bite them in the ass, but it’s a really dumb risk to take.