2023 Game Thread

[Namaste]

Jazz has to score Wendle

[Namaste]

We will never be a competitive team with Jon Berti playing SS every day

[fish16]

We will never be a competitive team with Jon Berti playing SS every day

Tim Anderson is the perfect upgrade

[fish16]

It feels like we’ve been decent in extra innings since they changed the rule but man I hate it. I get the idea, but do a runner at 1b instead. Runner at second feels like an automatic run most innings

[fish16]

Has segura always consistently lost his footing swinging hard? I’ve seen him do it several times today

[fish16]

This team is an all star at ss, c, and corner outfield away from being a competitive lineup. Oh and we don’t develop bats. Not just develop them very rarely, straight up don’t develop them at all. Year 6 of a rebuild and not a single bat was developed internally.

[Namaste]

[QUOTE=fish16;n584088]Has segura always consistently lost his footing swinging hard? IQUOTE]

Yes

[Namaste]

Easy win. Never in doubt.

[lou]

Gotta love that we're already talking about kicking the can not to next year, but the year after.....

Our organizational hitting sucks.

It sure does. What is the FO going to say? Do mental gymnastic like..... But But But But if you take out the 4 blowouts, they move to only a -15 run differential instead of -56 so the one-run game luck has balanced that out. And Rogers and Cueto are hurt, and some guys are under achieving like Sandy, Jazz, Luzardo, and especially Segura, and DLC and Sanchez's statcast are still interesting if they stop whiffing so they'll be better over the course of the year?

To me, even if you do that, it's still what we thought. A high 70 wins at best projection.

I think the looming trend is Fortes is cratering and Stallings does in fact appear to be done. We can hold out for another 5-7 weeks and blame a SSS, but we can kind of see where this is going. Can't really fault them for this as this was a solid plan on paper and Fortes peripherals backed up he should hit more, but this is turning into a second complete blackhole longterm like SS. Mack, Banfield, and Allen aren't hitting in the minors, and McIntosh is a bit but is he going to be a defender at all? I had high hopes they would organizational churn out a few OK enough catchers here as the analytics say they should, but that's looking like an optimistic take. And then Cooper is falling apart and Gurriel's statcast is abysmal so those guys may be close to a negative, with Arraez playing poor defense, so they will need at least one longterm 2B/3B on top of this when they move him to 1B inevitable. Unless Edwards or Groshans is just a revelation. Which then begs the question yes Arraez is great, but they cashed in their biggest trade chip for a corner player which is the easiest thing to find in free agency so that's not efficiently using your assets when Berry is your best minor league hitter (arguably) on paper to open. And he also sucks. But sure, a SSS for him too.

I was expecting a bad offense, but this is something else. They truly need to open the wallet next year and get 2 major upgrades and then likely trade for 2+ more significant young guys with the deadline dumps and young arms to build around Arraez, Jazz, and DLC, Sanchez, Fortes, and Segura (can't give up on those 4 IMO), and Cappe and Berry who we can hope are fast risers. This is probably a C, 2B, SS, and OF right now but we'll see what everyone does.

[lou]

We will never be a competitive team with Jon Berti playing SS every day

Or the third best hitter on a team (which he currently is even if he won't end up there as someone is likely better.... maybe?)

Berti, Soler, Floro, Brazoban, Barnes, and maybe Cooper, Scott and/or Okert, might be an interesting deadline if things really hit the fan. Maybe they can coast these next 6 weeks with the schedule.

[rmc523]

It sure does. What is the FO going to say? Do mental gymnastic like..... But But But But if you take out the 4 blowouts, they move to only a -15 run differential instead of -56 so the one-run game luck has balanced that out. And Rogers and Cueto are hurt, and some guys are under achieving like Sandy, Jazz, Luzardo, and especially Segura, and DLC and Sanchez's statcast are still interesting if they stop whiffing so they'll be better over the course of the year?

To me, even if you do that, it's still what we thought. A high 70 wins at best projection.

I think the looming trend is Fortes is cratering and Stallings does in fact appear to be done. We can hold out for another 5-7 weeks and blame a SSS, but we can kind of see where this is going. Can't really fault them for this as this was a solid plan on paper and Fortes peripherals backed up he should hit more, but this is turning into a second complete blackhole longterm like SS. Mack, Banfield, and Allen aren't hitting in the minors, and McIntosh is a bit but is he going to be a defender at all? I had high hopes they would organizational churn out a few OK enough catchers here as the analytics say they should, but that's looking like an optimistic take. And then Cooper is falling apart and Gurriel's statcast is abysmal so those guys may be close to a negative, with Arraez playing poor defense, so they will need at least one longterm 2B/3B on top of this when they move him to 1B inevitable. Unless Edwards or Groshans is just a revelation. Which then begs the question yes Arraez is great, but they cashed in their biggest trade chip for a corner player which is the easiest thing to find in free agency so that's not efficiently using your assets when Berry is your best minor league hitter (arguably) on paper to open. And he also sucks. But sure, a SSS for him too.

I was expecting a bad offense, but this is something else. They truly need to open the wallet next year and get 2 major upgrades and then likely trade for 2+ more significant young guys with the deadline dumps and young arms to build around Arraez, Jazz, and DLC, Sanchez, Fortes, and Segura (can't give up on those 4 IMO), and Cappe and Berry who we can hope are fast risers. This is probably a C, 2B, SS, and OF right now but we'll see what everyone does.

The problem is there's not much in FA this offseason. They squandered their perfect opportunity this offseason.

[Namaste]

We will never be a competitive team with Jon Berti playing SS every day

I just wanted to clarify this post. I like Jon Berti. But my eye test is telling me he is not a good defensive SS. He double clutches 50% of his throws. Often, relatively routine ground balls to SS are BANG BANG plays at 1B.

[lou]

The problem is there's not much in FA this offseason. They squandered their perfect opportunity this offseason.

Maybe Bellinger is back and he is the "Werth" deal. He'll be 28 next year and maybe that's more of a Bryant/Nimmo money deal versus a Boegarts money deal.

I would envision in a perfect scenario, it would be something like Bellinger for 5-6 years and someone like Frankie Montas (he'll be 31) for three. It'll be expensive, but let's add a maybe scuffling Rosario on a 2 year rebound (he'll be 28) on top of this too. Call it $55-60m in payroll for those three. Could be cheaper with some backloading.

Effectively that turns into this for $120-125m - yes I know it's a big jump but we're talking about how to fix the ship and they will have to pay for a stud and get two more legitimate every day free agents (and actually have them be useful this time unlike Garcia and Segura). This is a leap of faith Bellinger 2023 is real, Montas is hurt and will be better, and Rosario is just having a down year but the right age, but that is sadly the free agents the Marlins need to target you know. Have to see how it all plays out, but I feel something like that could set them up for:

______, Fortes
Arraez, _______
Segura
Rosario, Amaya/Groshans
Berti, Groshans/Edwards
DLC/Sanchez/Burdick
Jazz
Bellinger, Garcia (or DFA him and keep the other of DLC/Sanchez/Burdick)

Sandy, Luzardo, Montas, Eury, Eder
Meyer, Chargois, Bender, Enright
Puk, Garrett, Nardi, Okert

Rogers and Cabrera turn into a play now catcher and 1B, and Soler, Cooper, Floro, Brazoban, Barnes, Scott, and Cueto turn into random FV40s in the system for the future. Ideally, a lot of OF for LF/Garcia competition as well as right handed relievers. Maybe even a real Fortes competitor if he is this bad.

I think that would give them a real fighting chance with Fulton, Cappe, and Berry maybe mid-season big adds. Just keep Garrett and Meyer stretched out here, and maybe even do a 6 man rotation with one of them and never skip Sandy sort of thing.

But yes, they squandered this offseason. We'll have to see what happens, but as always, they have the depth and money to right the ship if Bruce will spend bottom 10 payroll and Kim decides to plant the flag trade for some bats. Maybe Pittsburgh stays in it and the Marlins send them A LOT of pitching for Endy Rodriguez. They have two top 50 prospect catchers right now and the Marlins do have the juice to get one. We shall see.

[lou]

I just wanted to clarify this post. I like Jon Berti. But my eye test is telling me he is not a good defensive SS. He double clutches 50% of his throws. Often, relatively routine ground balls to SS are BANG BANG plays at 1B.

He's doing pretty OK there but it is a SSS. I think we all agree he's a premium bench guy on a good team.

[fish16]

It sure does. What is the FO going to say? Do mental gymnastic like..... But But But But if you take out the 4 blowouts, they move to only a -15 run differential instead of -56 so the one-run game luck has balanced that out. And Rogers and Cueto are hurt, and some guys are under achieving like Sandy, Jazz, Luzardo, and especially Segura, and DLC and Sanchez's statcast are still interesting if they stop whiffing so they'll be better over the course of the year?

To me, even if you do that, it's still what we thought. A high 70 wins at best projection.

I think the looming trend is Fortes is cratering and Stallings does in fact appear to be done. We can hold out for another 5-7 weeks and blame a SSS, but we can kind of see where this is going. Can't really fault them for this as this was a solid plan on paper and Fortes peripherals backed up he should hit more, but this is turning into a second complete blackhole longterm like SS. Mack, Banfield, and Allen aren't hitting in the minors, and McIntosh is a bit but is he going to be a defender at all? I had high hopes they would organizational churn out a few OK enough catchers here as the analytics say they should, but that's looking like an optimistic take. And then Cooper is falling apart and Gurriel's statcast is abysmal so those guys may be close to a negative, with Arraez playing poor defense, so they will need at least one longterm 2B/3B on top of this when they move him to 1B inevitable. Unless Edwards or Groshans is just a revelation. Which then begs the question yes Arraez is great, but they cashed in their biggest trade chip for a corner player which is the easiest thing to find in free agency so that's not efficiently using your assets when Berry is your best minor league hitter (arguably) on paper to open. And he also sucks. But sure, a SSS for him too.

I was expecting a bad offense, but this is something else. They truly need to open the wallet next year and get 2 major upgrades and then likely trade for 2+ more significant young guys with the deadline dumps and young arms to build around Arraez, Jazz, and DLC, Sanchez, Fortes, and Segura (can't give up on those 4 IMO), and Cappe and Berry who we can hope are fast risers. This is probably a C, 2B, SS, and OF right now but we'll see what everyone does.

You can absolutely give up on DLC. He's a 4th OF. You fell in love with a mythical swing change and a 2 week sample size while ignoring who he has been his entire career.

He is a bad fielder, bad baserunner, doesnt walk, strikes out a ton, and he happens to hit the ball hard on the rare occasions he makes contact. enough of the bullshit of hoping for a breakout. He's not a starting caliber player. they can very easily give up on him. Trade him for a righty reliever and move on at the deadline.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb

He does nothing well other than hit the ball hard occasionally. That's not a starting caliber player in this league. He hasnt graded positively in any aspect of his game this year. Bad fielder, bad hitter, bad baserunner, doesnt get on base, strikes out constantly. -.4 WAR for the year. a whopping 1.3 WAR over 700 PA's in his career. he's. not. a. starting. player.

Also, elvis andrus has a .547 OPS this year, 54 WRC+, and against lefties in particular his OPS is .497.