2023 Game Thread

[lou]

Is Luis Arraez going to hit .390 every season? Is Jorge Soler, who has carried this offense from a power standpoint, even going to be on the team next year? Doubtful. Don't give me this 2024 and 2025 bullshit, when we're in position right now.

We were playing for 2021 when Jeter/Sherman took over. Then we were playing for 2022, you don't keep moving the goal posts when the field goal is makeable right now.

Who is saying 2024? Because it is not me - who has been saying they should have made big moves 6 weeks ago when this was looking like a viable team.

So why aren't they doing that? Idiocy, cheapness, strategic because they quietly may need a big arm (this has to be it, they can't be this cheap), or just hoping for the best, enjoying the moment, and viewing this longterm by holding onto every arm.

[Nick]

This is a plan the Marlins (I have seen Mish mention this) have discussed (but it was not 2 months), to send him down for a period now (but haven't been able to with Cabrera, Rogers, and Cueto), and keep him stretched to pitch later. It's just listening when they say things.

So pitch him 5-7 games and shut him down mid August then. If that is what you think is best, cool? I think Johan Santana is the best development example we have and Twins fans were screaming to pitch him in 2002 and 2003. The Twins were right. The fans were wrong. They kept him pitching whole seasons by smartly managing workloads. Unlike the Marlins who got Fernandez hurt. I prefer to pitch him the whole season and manage the workload.

How tf is shutting him down for a month and a half him pitching a whole season?

Oh yay we got him through the entire season healthy, alright! Except for when we shut him down for 45 games. lol

[rmc523]

And what is the point here as it pertains to Eury?

And yes we all know Bruce is cheap, but what is the explanation for not doing anything with this team? Because it's idiocy, cheapness, strategic as maybe they do need a SP most as mentioned above and they can only do so much (this is probably it), or the faint hope maybe they are waiting to "build" once they do have the arms ready. Which isn't today with the major innings limitations for Eury, medium ones for Cabrera, Garrett, and Luzardo, and Eder and Meyer being hurt. Which all of that does go away next year technically.

But there are injuries to pitching every year. You can't continue to wait for the impossible "everyone is healthy" year because it'll never happen.

[Nick]

And hey if we're in a situation in August where Sandy, Garrett, Luzardo, Rogers and Cabrera are all healthy and pitching well. Then by all means break his routine, shut him down for a bit, but what are the chances of that happening? Less than 1%?

[rmc523]

exactly, everyone is guessing. When you have the opportunity we do right now, you dont just draw a made up line in the sand and say the guy who has pretty much been your best pitcher for going on 2.5 months consecutively is going to be shut down the second he gets to 120 innings no matter if he feels fine or not. It's just dumb. The absolute cutoff for him should be 140 regular season and 150 playoffs if he feels fine. You monitor the guy. Everyone is built differently and their potential injury level is different. He is 6'8 and 220 lbs and they want to create a 1 size fits all innings limit that would be the same as if he was 5'8 170. its just dumb. Monitor the guy, make sure you keep open the lines of communication, do everything possible to make sure his delivery isnt causing an injury risk, and go for a fucking title or at least a significant playoff run.

Let's be real. He's not going to go his whole career without getting injured no matter how much they baby him. It will happen eventually in all likelihood, or he's a kershaw or hernandez level of stupid durable. There is no way of telling, but he's ridiculously tall and a physical specimen and has an ability to pitch a lot. Dont be dumb, but dont be needlessly cautious with no basis for doing so. i thought it was dumb last year as well when they would not let him go more than 5 no matter how many pitches he had thrown as if every inning means the same thing regardless of the number of pitches thrown.

If he starts getting shelled. Shut him down. If not, let him keep going responsibly. You talk about needing him for next year, but extending his innings this year will just build up his arm for more innings next year potentially.

There's also a big difference between taxing/stressful innings and "cruising" innings where people are being mowed down and/or 5-10 pitch innings vs. 35 pitches. A blanket "X innings" isn't a good be-all-end-all.

[lou]

Josh Johnson threw 5 more innings in 06 than he did in 05. Nolasco threw 20 fewer innings in 06 than he did in 05. Kind of going against the point you are making.

Granted, Sanchez threw 64 more innings in 06 than 05.

They killed Johnson in a rain delay, and Nolasco was having shoulder problems if I remember correctly. But they still grinded them through it. I suppose pitching Cabrera hard when he comes back versus Eury throwing major innings is a better example with those two, and Anibal would be what throwing Eury for 140 innings would be, so yes. You are right. It was more than just inning jumps, but still general malpractice of the coaching staff to throw them like they did. It all just gets lumped into Girardi really set them back IMO.

[lou]

How tf is shutting him down for a month and a half him pitching a whole season?

Oh yay we got him through the entire season healthy, alright! Except for when we shut him down for 45 games. lol

I don't know, ask the Marlins. It is "their" plan so direct questions to them.

I'd shift him to the bullpen and throw him every 4th day 1+ inning. Because I don't believe they should shut him down for 3 weeks or whatever "their" plan actually is.

[lou]

But there are injuries to pitching every year. You can't continue to wait for the impossible "everyone is healthy" year because it'll never happen.

You're talking to the guy who said they should trade the majority of the farm system 6 weeks ago, just want to note that here.

[lou]

There's also a big difference between taxing/stressful innings and "cruising" innings where people are being mowed down and/or 5-10 pitch innings vs. 35 pitches. A blanket "X innings" isn't a good be-all-end-all.

Already been addressed in 2 ways - you can throw him a few extra (maybe 10) in the regular season, or this bonus time is playoff inventory.

[Nick]

I don't know, ask the Marlins. It is "their" plan so direct questions to them.

I'd shift him to the bullpen and throw him every 4th day 1+ inning. Because I don't believe they should shut him down for 3 weeks or whatever "their" plan actually is.

It's their "plan" that almost certainly won't take place. Great.

Just like it was their "plan" to send him down to AAA a couple weeks ago. Every day further into the season we get and we remain in a playoff spot, that "plan" becomes more and more impossible to enact.

[fish16]

lou loves to use the johan santana plan line as if that was a plan at all. Johan santana was a rule 5 pick by the twins from us. They werent limiting his innings as part of some grand plan, they were forced to start a guy who was coming out of the bullpen in a long relief role after he continuously exceeded their expectations. His first year he put up a 6.49 ERA and 1.81 WHIP in 86 innings with just a 1.2 K/BB rate. The second year he had a 4.74 ERA and a 1.51 WHIP in 43 innings with a 1.8 K/BB ratio. then his 3rd year he broke out and went from 43 innings total the year prior to a combined 157 innings. they increased his innings by 114 over a single year. This isnt some master scheme that they nailed. this was a guy who broke out and surprised them and they had no choice but to put him in the rotation full time. The year after that he pitched another 158 innings and then the following year they jacked his innings up by another 70 innings in a single year up to a total of 228.

[fish16]

And hey if we're in a situation in August where Sandy, Garrett, Luzardo, Rogers and Cabrera are all healthy and pitching well. Then by all means break his routine, shut him down for a bit, but what are the chances of that happening? Less than 1%?

rogers has a tear in his lat, he isnt throwing. he isnt coming back any time soon if at all. That's not a minor injury, that was an enormous setback. Cabrera was supposed to miss a single start and now a month later is only throwing a 25 pitch bullpen. He needs to ramp up and then start a multi game rehab stint. I doubt he is back within the next month at that rate.

[Nick]

rogers has a tear in his lat, he isnt throwing. he isnt coming back any time soon if at all. That's not a minor injury, that was an enormous setback. Cabrera was supposed to miss a single start and now a month later is only throwing a 25 pitch bullpen. He needs to ramp up and then start a multi game rehab stint. I doubt he is back within the next month at that rate.

hence what I said.

[fish16]

I don't know, ask the Marlins. It is "their" plan so direct questions to them.

I'd shift him to the bullpen and throw him every 4th day 1+ inning. Because I don't believe they should shut him down for 3 weeks or whatever "their" plan actually is.

ah yes, what better way to keep a guy healthy then to throw the 20 year old into a bullpen role he has never been in and have him ramp up quickly for his appearances when needed every 4th day as opposed to every 5th day in the rotation.

[fish16]

hence what I said.

i know, im agreeing with you. just giving further context into how completely unlikely that is any time soon.