2023 Game Thread

[lou]

Would switching to some sort of 6-man rotation help with the Eury situation?

No, it's a roughly 25+ inning capacity. Maybe 35 if they don't save anything for the playoffs and its deemed they need him to get them there so he must be used (which is fine if they must, just get in!).

It's 12 starts left per guy with a 6 man rotation. But they can do better than that, this probably works based on how they can tinker the schedule around.

Rogers - 15 (most capacity if healthy)
Sandy - 15 (this would be 33 starts)
Garrett - 12 (need to skip a few)
Cabrera - 12 (need to skip a few)
Luzardo - 10 (need to skip a few plus another one)
Other starts needed - 9

So effectively, Eury could do 5-7 of the rest and that's it, with Cueto given an opportunity I imagine, or it's just Hoeing + Soriano + Brazoban on some bullpen days to get those 9.

Any injuries and this gets ugly, hence why saying the desires for a RHP reliever upgrade may be way off as a starter may be needed much much more. Maybe this is why they are "stalling" on getting trade upgrades as they see this looming issue where Rogers and Cabrera can't be trusted, Cueto is a disaster, where assets might be needed for a really significant starter arm. Maybe in 2 weeks this is all resolves itself, or maybe it doesn't. Hence, they are betting they can wait this out until they know what they need most.

[lou]

I feel like you're implying we're all saying do nothing, they're good as is, which isn't the case...

I'm all for improvements all around.

Not directed at anyone besides the unrealistic individual that said only some tweaks are needed for a team with a top 5 record in the league last week and the schedule/luck is basically irrelevant, but then says try to get Luis Robert a day ago. A superstar, franchise altering move. This cannot be reconciled and is being called out.

They need big bats, and maybe even a SP as stated. They won't make the playoffs absent major moves. Plural moves. They need a lot.

[lou]

You're dead on when it comes to this team being fortunate with the schedule and 1-run games, and needing help to get us to the playoffs, if this team does not improve the team in some significant way through a trade it won't make the playoffs, you can quote me on that.

But I can't get behind what you're saying about Eury. I think you're a little too insistent on the numbers being clean and what those numbers mean on the field and in life. (maybe I'm not wording that the best) There is no magical innings number that's going to keep Eury healthy. Like I said above, you do the best you can to limit his exertion from game to game, you monitor what you're seeing from him game to game. You make sure he is letting you know how he is feeling, and any sign of trouble you back off, but to change what he's doing based on some arbitrary innings number is not practical especially in the middle of a playoff race. We may never need him more than we need him now, and that has to play into this decision.

If they have to throw him 5-7 more starts to make the playoffs and then shut him down, you do it. But they can probably avoid that if they are smart about it. This is a difficult course to navigate for sure, but the most important part is the longevity of Eury and to not lose him for huge chunks of 24 and 25 (when the Marlins should be even better). This literally happened to Fernandez, and remember when Girardi sent out Johnson, Nolasco, and Anibal to all kill themselves 15 years ago? Still mad about that. I'm not throwing one of the top assets in baseball beyond what past precedent has dictated is an unhealthy innings jump. He is likely even more injury prone due to his size than a more compact 6'1 guy to also mention. They gotta protect him beyond making the playoffs, so if they have to be cute about it, so be it. Maybe thats a shut down for July, let him rip in August for 5+ starts, and a reliever September and on is the happy medium.

[Nick]

If they have to throw him 5-7 more starts to make the playoffs and then shut him down, you do it. But they can probably avoid that if they are smart about it. This is a difficult course to navigate for sure, but the most important part is the longevity of Eury and to not lose him for huge chunks of 24 and 25 (when the Marlins should be even better). This literally happened to Fernandez, and remember when Girardi sent out Johnson, Nolasco, and Anibal to all kill themselves 15 years ago? Still mad about that. I'm not throwing one of the top assets in baseball beyond what past precedent has dictated is an unhealthy innings jump. He is likely even more injury prone due to his size than a more compact 6'1 guy to also mention. They gotta protect him beyond making the playoffs, so if they have to be cute about it, so be it. Maybe thats a shut down for July, let him rip in August for 5+ starts, and a reliever September and on is the happy medium.

I'm going to stop you right there. There's been many years in the history of the franchise where we shoulda been better than we are this year, but fact of the matter is, we've almost never actually been in the position we are right now.

[lou]

I'm going to stop you right there. There's been many years in the history of the franchise where we shoulda been better than we are this year, but fact of the matter is, we've almost never actually been in the position we are right now.

And what's the point as it pertains to Eury right now? Because the team will have much more IP inventory every year moving forward so they will be better as the arms progress. We even said before this season are they circling 2024 because of no big SS/Nimmo signing.

Are we throwing Eury and shutting him down to make the playoffs, or going to try and maneuver his availability so he can pitch in the playoffs? I want him pitching in the playoffs. They should do that as he is awesome and that is where he'll make the most impact of what he has left.

[rmc523]

And what's the point as it pertains to Eury right now? Because the team will have much more IP inventory every year moving forward so they will be better as the arms progress. We even said before this season are they circling 2024 because of no big SS/Nimmo signing.

Are we throwing Eury and shutting him down to make the playoffs, or going to try and maneuver his availability so he can pitch in the playoffs? I want him pitching in the playoffs. They should do that as he is awesome and that is where he'll make the most impact of what he has left.

I'm pretty sure you're the main/only one that keeps mentioning circling '24.....we still have ZERO evidence they'll ever actually "go for it" and sign that big bat/player.

For all we know, Bruce will see "look how good we were, we don't need to do anything".

[Nick]

And what's the point as it pertains to Eury right now? Because the team will have much more IP inventory every year moving forward so they will be better as the arms progress. We even said before this season are they circling 2024 because of no big SS/Nimmo signing.

Are we throwing Eury and shutting him down to make the playoffs, or going to try and maneuver his availability so he can pitch in the playoffs? I want him pitching in the playoffs. They should do that as he is awesome and that is where he'll make the most impact of what he has left.

The point is you get everything you can out of Eury (in a responsible manner) to win now and make the playoffs.

Your view on this subject is not living in reality. You're gonna shut him down for 2 months, and then ramp him back up come playoff time and expect him to be the same pitcher? I'm sorry that's not how it works. Baseball is a game of repetition Shutting him down in August having him pitch backfield games in Jupiter in late September against teenagers and expect him come back to be a major contributor in the playoffs is a bad plan. Moving him to the bullpen now, where he has to deal with being ready to pitch every single day, is a bad plan. Keep him on his routine, keep him on a short leash game to game, keep his pitch count from even approaching 100, and keep the lines of communication on his health and well-being open. That's really the only sensible option at this point.

[Lee Stone]

Rather than let the Braves secure Olson and Murphy from Oakland, the Marlins could have easily surpassed the Atlanta offers for these two. What a difference that would have made. Eder, Fulton, Meyer, Joe Mack, Nick Fortes, and Cappe probably could have got it done last winter.

Biggest and easiest move the Marlins can make right now is bringing up switch hitter X Edwards to lead off every game. With Arraez making constant contact as the two hitter, the team can put on a run-and-hit whenever Edwards gets on first.

[Nick]

Is Luis Arraez going to hit .390 every season? Is Jorge Soler, who has carried this offense from a power standpoint, even going to be on the team next year? Doubtful. Don't give me this 2024 and 2025 bullshit, when we're in position right now.

We were playing for 2021 when Jeter/Sherman took over. Then we were playing for 2022, you don't keep moving the goal posts when the field goal is makeable right now.

[Todd]

If they have to throw him 5-7 more starts to make the playoffs and then shut him down, you do it. But they can probably avoid that if they are smart about it. This is a difficult course to navigate for sure, but the most important part is the longevity of Eury and to not lose him for huge chunks of 24 and 25 (when the Marlins should be even better). This literally happened to Fernandez, and remember when Girardi sent out Johnson, Nolasco, and Anibal to all kill themselves 15 years ago? Still mad about that. I'm not throwing one of the top assets in baseball beyond what past precedent has dictated is an unhealthy innings jump. He is likely even more injury prone due to his size than a more compact 6'1 guy to also mention. They gotta protect him beyond making the playoffs, so if they have to be cute about it, so be it. Maybe thats a shut down for July, let him rip in August for 5+ starts, and a reliever September and on is the happy medium.

Josh Johnson threw 5 more innings in 06 than he did in 05. Nolasco threw 20 fewer innings in 06 than he did in 05. Kind of going against the point you are making.

Granted, Sanchez threw 64 more innings in 06 than 05.

[lou]

I'm pretty sure you're the main/only one that keeps mentioning circling '24.....we still have ZERO evidence they'll ever actually "go for it" and sign that big bat/player.

For all we know, Bruce will see "look how good we were, we don't need to do anything".

And what is the point here as it pertains to Eury?

And yes we all know Bruce is cheap, but what is the explanation for not doing anything with this team? Because it's idiocy, cheapness, strategic as maybe they do need a SP most as mentioned above and they can only do so much (this is probably it), or the faint hope maybe they are waiting to "build" once they do have the arms ready. Which isn't today with the major innings limitations for Eury, medium ones for Cabrera, Garrett, and Luzardo, and Eder and Meyer being hurt. Which all of that does go away next year technically.

[fish16]

Josh Johnson threw 5 more innings in 06 than he did in 05. Nolasco threw 20 fewer innings in 06 than he did in 05. Kind of going against the point you are making.

Granted, Sanchez threw 64 more innings in 06 than 05.

exactly, everyone is guessing. When you have the opportunity we do right now, you dont just draw a made up line in the sand and say the guy who has pretty much been your best pitcher for going on 2.5 months consecutively is going to be shut down the second he gets to 120 innings no matter if he feels fine or not. It's just dumb. The absolute cutoff for him should be 140 regular season and 150 playoffs if he feels fine. You monitor the guy. Everyone is built differently and their potential injury level is different. He is 6'8 and 220 lbs and they want to create a 1 size fits all innings limit that would be the same as if he was 5'8 170. its just dumb. Monitor the guy, make sure you keep open the lines of communication, do everything possible to make sure his delivery isnt causing an injury risk, and go for a fucking title or at least a significant playoff run.

Let's be real. He's not going to go his whole career without getting injured no matter how much they baby him. It will happen eventually in all likelihood, or he's a kershaw or hernandez level of stupid durable. There is no way of telling, but he's ridiculously tall and a physical specimen and has an ability to pitch a lot. Dont be dumb, but dont be needlessly cautious with no basis for doing so. i thought it was dumb last year as well when they would not let him go more than 5 no matter how many pitches he had thrown as if every inning means the same thing regardless of the number of pitches thrown.

If he starts getting shelled. Shut him down. If not, let him keep going responsibly. You talk about needing him for next year, but extending his innings this year will just build up his arm for more innings next year potentially.

[fish16]

same thing with an innings limit for luzardo or really any pitcher for that matter. Drawing arbitrary innings limits are just idiotic. These guys arent robots, nor are all of them created equally. Monitor the guy, make sure you communicate with your pitchers and know how they are feeling, and then see how they progress over the year. Having an innings limit now for luzardo when he has shown 0 signs of stress and is quite frankly getting better as the year goes on is just such over managing.

[lou]

The point is you get everything you can out of Eury (in a responsible manner) to win now and make the playoffs.

Your view on this subject is not living in reality. You're gonna shut him down for 2 months, and then ramp him back up come playoff time and expect him to be the same pitcher? I'm sorry that's not how it works. Baseball is a game of repetition Shutting him down in August having him pitch backfield games in Jupiter in late September against teenagers and expect him come back to be a major contributor in the playoffs is a bad plan. Moving him to the bullpen now, where he has to deal with being ready to pitch every single day, is a bad plan. Keep him on his routine, keep him on a short leash game to game, keep his pitch count from even approaching 100, and keep the lines of communication on his health and well-being open. That's really the only sensible option at this point.

This is a plan the Marlins (I have seen Mish mention this) have discussed (but it was not 2 months), to send him down for a period now (but haven't been able to with Cabrera, Rogers, and Cueto), and keep him stretched to pitch later. It's just listening when they say things.

So pitch him 5-7 games and shut him down mid August then. If that is what you think is best, cool? I think Johan Santana is the best development example we have and Twins fans were screaming to pitch him in 2002 and 2003. The Twins were right. The fans were wrong. They kept him pitching whole seasons by smartly managing workloads. Unlike the Marlins who got Fernandez hurt. I prefer to pitch him the whole season and manage the workload.

[rmc523]

Is Luis Arraez going to hit .390 every season? Is Jorge Soler, who has carried this offense from a power standpoint, even going to be on the team next year? Doubtful. Don't give me this 2024 and 2025 bullshit, when we're in position right now.

We were playing for 2021 when Jeter/Sherman took over. Then we were playing for 2022, you don't keep moving the goal posts when the field goal is makeable right now.

Completely agree with this.

Take advantage of the position we're in NOW. And if/when we're good again next year too, awesome. Don't let it just pass by just because it doesn't fit in the planned timeline (like they did with 2020).