2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Nick]

Solid contract in which we.dont know the cash details at all.

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2 years $18 million. Too much for a scab guy who doesnt help you at all when you're ready to compete.

[fish16]

Do puig for 2/20 or 1 year 12 million with a second year option for 8-10 or something like that

[tjfla]

Solid contract in which we.dont know the cash details at all.

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2 years $18 million. Too much for a scab guy who doesnt help you at all when you're ready to compete.

Marlins been offering guys 2/15-20 or 1 yr+ option so pretty much same deal

Hearing he went with Arizona because from there and contender

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Do puig for 2/20 or 1 year 12 million with a second year option for 8-10 or something like that

Thats what they want Puig at 2/15-20 issue before this week is he wanted 3/30+ type deal

[fauowls44]

Marlins been offering guys 2/15-20 or 1 yr+ option so pretty much same deal

Hearing he went with Arizona because from there and contender

Avisail got 2/$20...Calhoun got 2/$16. Just give Puig a similar deal and be done with it already.

[tjfla]

Avisail got 2/$20...Calhoun got 2/$16. Just give Puig a similar deal and be done with it already.

Thats plan. Puig needs to get on board now

[lou]

Let's just burn cash in a garbage can if you want to give a free agent 2/$20.

Plan for 2022/2023. Create value.

Calhoun has a 2022 option. They get it.

[tjfla]

Arizona signs Calhoun maybe Miami goes back and sees about Peralta? We made an offer already just couldnt agree on arm in deal

I would go for Puig and then call Minnesota and offer Elieser/other stuff(Brian Miller or Austin Dean/low level prospect) for Jake Cave/other stuff

Get power RHB(Puig),LHB(Cave) who can play CF and still have cash for RP(Cishek)/SP

Trade Elieser and Urena for stuff like Cave/prospects and then sign a vet arm to be #5

[fish16]

Let's just burn cash in a garbage can if you want to give a free agent 2/$20.

Plan for 2022/2023. Create value.

Calhoun has a 2022 option. They get it.

Or you could not waste money on 2022/23 for no reason and get the best stop gap on the market to give us an impact bat in the lineup while the kids develop. There’s no reason to go three years on any of these players and puig is the best combo of potential impact combined with increased fan interest. This whole notion that you continue to insist on in giving some sort of player 3 years makes no sense unless the player makes sense for three years from now. You’re allowed to find interesting stop gap options that will be productive for two years and might speed up the rebuild by a year without cutting into payroll 3 years from now when at least 3 of the prospects should be working out by then.

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And there’s no reason why puig would ever accept a 3 year deal where he’s getting 5 million in a third year. Why would he ever accept that rather than just taking a 2/20 and betting that he will increase his value for one last multi year deal? All that would do for him is give him 5 million (not much at all for a player of his caliber) to delay his next free agent deal by a year, going from free agency at 32 vs 31

[Nick]

We have stop gaps. Their names are Harold Ramirez, Garrett Cooper and Austin Dean. Nobody gives an F if we win 70 games with Puig/Calhoun or 65 with Dean/Cooper.

[fish16]

We have stop gaps. Their names are Harold Ramirez, Garrett Cooper and Austin Dean. Nobody gives an F if we win 70 games with Puig/Calhoun or 65 with Dean/Cooper.

Garrett Cooper can’t be counted on to stay healthy, Austin dean is now 26 years old and has 300 ab’s at the major league level under his belt and has a .656 ops. Yasiel puig would be a Cuban fan favorite who is a proven major league guy who will put up near or more than an .800 ops with 20-25 hr’s a year and 15-20 sb’s. I’d be cool with some sort of Berti/Ramirez platoon in center, Anderson in rf or 3b, and then puig in another corner outfield spot, but this whole notion that puig isn’t significantly better than any of the options we currently have is misguided

[lou]

Or you could not waste money on 2022/23 for no reason and get the best stop gap on the market to give us an impact bat in the lineup while the kids develop. There’s no reason to go three years on any of these players and puig is the best combo of potential impact combined with increased fan interest. This whole notion that you continue to insist on in giving some sort of player 3 years makes no sense unless the player makes sense for three years from now. You’re allowed to find interesting stop gap options that will be productive for two years and might speed up the rebuild by a year without cutting into payroll 3 years from now when at least 3 of the prospects should be working out by then.

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And there’s no reason why puig would ever accept a 3 year deal where he’s getting 5 million in a third year. Why would he ever accept that rather than just taking a 2/20 and betting that he will increase his value for one last multi year deal? All that would do for him is give him 5 million (not much at all for a player of his caliber) to delay his next free agent deal by a year, going from free agency at 32 vs 31

It's not wasting money, it's attempting to create an asset with a guy in his prime for a contending year. And the idea would be to say, give Puig 2/$25, with a club option for $8 (or whatever). Frontload him, and then maybe you have a viable starter or great trade asset. Take on a little risk, for a huge benefit in a contending year - this is how you contend. Create value in a window.

I am all for signing stopgaps like Aguilar or Cervelli or Garcia (combined, $6-7 million). Burning cash on 1 year of Puig for $12 is stupid (if he were a trade target like Villar who is a 4 WAR upside player, that's different).

Dbacks signing Calhoun with an option for 2022 is SMART BUSINESS.

Either spend money to do something, or be cute with Aguilar/Yimi/Cervelli signings. The middle ground is the wasteland. Wasting money on a $2/20 stopgap is the exact opposite of what they should be doing. For the guy who is hellbent to not spend just because, you are taking a contrary position.

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We have stop gaps. Their names are Harold Ramirez, Garrett Cooper and Austin Dean. Nobody gives an F if we win 70 games with Puig/Calhoun or 65 with Dean/Cooper.

Yeeeeep, unless that comes with something great in 2022 then that makes sense

[fish16]

Puig would be a much bigger threat in the lineup to provide protection for guys like Diaz and others that will come up the next two years than aaaa players like dean. That’s not something to take for granted when you are trying to develop young kids

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It's not wasting money, it's attempting to create an asset with a guy in his prime for a contending year. And the idea would be to say, give Puig 2/$25, with a club option for $8 (or whatever). Frontload him, and then maybe you have a viable starter or great trade asset. Take on a little risk, for a huge benefit in a contending year - this is how you contend. Create value in a window.

I am all for signing stopgaps like Aguilar or Cervelli or Garcia (combined, $6-7 million). Burning cash on 1 year of Puig for $12 is stupid (if he were a trade target like Villar who is a 4 WAR upside player, that's different).

Dbacks signing Calhoun with an option for 2022 is SMART BUSINESS.

Either spend money to do something, or be cute with Aguilar/Yimi/Cervelli signings. The middle ground is the wasteland. Wasting money on a $2/20 stopgap is the exact opposite of what they should be doing. For the guy who is hellbent to not spend just because, you are taking a contrary position.

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Yeeeeep, unless that comes with something great in 2022 then that makes sense

Its not spending just because. I think we can contend for a wild card spot as soon as 2021, so it wouldnt be for two lost years. You also would be surrounding your developing young players with a legitimate major league power bat rather than AAAA players like Dean. On top of that, you continue to save every potential long term dollar for a smart signing when we are ready to contend likely in 2022 (if 2021 is too soon) or for a superstar should one hit the free agent market.

The calhoun deal is stupid as shit, they gave him a 3rd year option for 9 million (i wouldnt be thrilled with paying calhoun 9 million this year let alone 3 years from now), and they just guaranteed another 2 million that will be owed in 3 years because its a buyout, not a club option for that 3rd year. Given how baseballs team controlled salary structures work and the relative value that can provide, giving so much money to stop gap OF's (which is what just about every one of these guys other than Ozuna or Castellanos are) makes absolutely 0 sense. Especially when you take into consideration just how many very talented OF's we will have coming up within the next 2 years.

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there are always veteran guys available for mid level money each offseason if you want a cheap veteran addition when the time comes, it makes no sense to force that guy to be chosen 3 years in advance.

[lou]

Puig would be a much bigger threat in the lineup to provide protection for guys like Diaz and others that will come up the next two years than aaaa players like dean. That’s not something to take for granted when you are trying to develop young kids

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Its not spending just because. I think we can contend for a wild card spot as soon as 2021, so it wouldnt be for two lost years. You also would be surrounding your developing young players with a legitimate major league power bat rather than AAAA players like Dean. On top of that, you continue to save every potential long term dollar for a smart signing when we are ready to contend likely in 2022 (if 2021 is too soon) or for a superstar should one hit the free agent market.

The calhoun deal is stupid as shit, they gave him a 3rd year option for 9 million (i wouldnt be thrilled with paying calhoun 9 million this year let alone 3 years from now), and they just guaranteed another 2 million that will be owed in 3 years because its a buyout, not a club option for that 3rd year. Given how baseballs team controlled salary structures work and the relative value that can provide, giving so much money to stop gap OF's (which is what just about every one of these guys other than Ozuna or Castellanos are) makes absolutely 0 sense. Especially when you take into consideration just how many very talented OF's we will have coming up within the next 2 years.

How many of them are right handed power hitters?

Anyways, Puig WOULD be a much bigger threat and they SHOULD sign him for his age 29-31 seasons with a club option for 32 at beneficial prices. He was awesome June-September. Take a swing at creating an asset. Front load the deal so even if he is bad, it doesn't hurt you in 2022 and what do you care about 2020 money?

Maybe you'll get it one day. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like sign guys to expensive 1-2 year deals. That's the dumbest thing they can do. You go big or the Aguilar/Cervilli/Yimi route right now.

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there are always veteran guys available for mid level money each offseason if you want a cheap veteran addition when the time comes, it makes no sense to force that guy to be chosen 3 years in advance.

This is stupid, then you get a dingleberry or spend $20 million on Avisail. Why not get a better player by paying him more in non contending years. If the Marlins are going to WIN they need to take some SWINGS.

[Lee Stone]

Garrett Cooper can’t be counted on to stay healthy, Austin dean is now 26 years old and has 300 ab’s at the major league level under his belt and has a .656 ops. Yasiel puig would be a Cuban fan favorite who is a proven major league guy who will put up near or more than an .800 ops with 20-25 hr’s a year and 15-20 sb’s. I’d be cool with some sort of Berti/Ramirez platoon in center, Anderson in rf or 3b, and then puig in another corner outfield spot, but this whole notion that puig isn’t significantly better than any of the options we currently have is misguided

Dean's .656 OPS has indeed been disappointing ... hell, it's only a hundred points higher than Isan Diaz in over 200 plate appearances.

[fish16]

How many of them are right handed power hitters?

Anyways, Puig WOULD be a much bigger threat and they SHOULD sign him for his age 29-31 seasons with a club option for 32 at beneficial prices. He was awesome June-September. Take a swing at creating an asset. Front load the deal so even if he is bad, it doesn't hurt you in 2022 and what do you care about 2020 money?

Maybe you'll get it one day. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like sign guys to expensive 1-2 year deals. That's the dumbest thing they can do. You go big or the Aguilar/Cervilli/Yimi route right now.

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This is stupid, then you get a dingleberry or spend $20 million on Avisail. Why not get a better player by paying him more in non contending years. If the Marlins are going to WIN they need to take some SWINGS.

Again, im fine with that plan, but why on earth would puig take a deal where he's getting a small amount in year 3 and delaying his free agency by a year rather than just taking the two year deal and betting on himself to put up numbers and get another multiyear deal after two more years. Why would that be even remotely appealing to him? its not like he is about to fall out of the league or is at risk of not getting another contract in two more years with his production.

And again, i think the worrying about right handed vs left handed hitters now is premature. I dont care about right vs. left so much as i care about their splits against righties and lefties. If they can only hit against righties they arent long term solutions anyways. And to answer your question, Monte, VVM, jerar, Burdick are all righties, brinson is still around as a righty, and anderson is a righty. In addition, in the lineup hopefully longterm we already have Anderson, Alfaro, and hopefully an outfielder like Monte or Cooper or whoever the hell we draft this year. It's just a premature issue to worry about. You dont worry about the astros top 4-5 hitters being righties in Correa, Bregman, Springer, Altuve, and also gurriel because they arent platoon players and can hit against both lefties and righties. So if we have 6 lefties in the lineup long term in bleday, jazz, diaz, lewin, sanchez, and then another guy maybe like misner or connor scott, i dont really give a shit so long as they can hit both lefties and righties and arent 1 dimensional platoon players like a Joc Pederson for example/

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Dean's .656 OPS has indeed been disappointing ... hell, it's only a hundred points higher than Isan Diaz in over 200 plate appearances.

ya it's almost as if one guy is 3 years older than the other and in his second year in the big leagues rather than getting his first taste of the big leagues.