2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[rmc523]

Absolutely. I'm not sure there is a huge opportunity with that for a FA, but maybe?

BUT Anderson is an easy buyout candidate for say 5/$35 and get a 6th year option pushing it to 6/$45ish.

They can really stack Anderson say $7-$10-$8-$6-$4 and talk about the windfall 2023-2024 for his age 30-31 seasons. They should be running to frontload Anderson.

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Yep

Oh I wasn't talking about for any particular FA or necessarily this year - just saying in general, it'd be nice to see something paying more up front with how the payroll is - or even something relatively evenly structured, just to avoid the "Loria contracts" route.

[tjfla]

Beside Rendon/Cole who are they gonna break bank for? Castellanos and Ozuna arent worth 100 million which is why they are looking at the trade market

People cry about the 2nd lowest payroll and they also cry about about spending cash on Castellanos or others. The plan is working fine right now just have to be patient-2020 is add a few vets to core to help now and maybe 2021 and finish #3-10 in draft. 2021 is the year they have had circled since bought team

4/50 for Ozuna or Castellanos is fine with me but realistic u are gonna get Tanner Roark/Rick Porcello on 1+option,Sergio Romo type in pen,Avisail Garcia or Edwin Encarnacion,Brett Gardner

Marlins would probably love Tanner Roark,Sergio Romo,Avisail Garcia,Brett Gardner as FA signings. Nothing special but innings eater who who be swing guy,Romo as Closer,Garcia has power and Gardner is vet.

[lou]

Beside Rendon/Cole who are they gonna break bank for? Castellanos and Ozuna arent worth 100 million which is why they are looking at the trade market

People cry about the 2nd lowest payroll and they also cry about about spending cash on Castellanos or others. The plan is working fine right now just have to be patient-2020 is add a few vets to core to help now and maybe 2021 and finish #3-10 in draft. 2021 is the year they have had circled since bought team

4/50 for Ozuna or Castellanos is fine with me

That's an absurd low contract for guys that can easily pop 3 WAR seasons for a few years in their prime. 4/$64-76 range is fine easily.

Regardless, the issue isn't on the field. It makes sense to "tank" another year and get another year of development before making FA commitments. But, they also have the TV deal, naming rights, building their brand, etc. I think it's more important to "BUILD" as one has said versus just accumulating picks, which usually don't work out.

A perfect offseason for me is something like:

Ozuna or Castellanos for a reasonable 3-4 year deal
Buyout Anderson for 5 and front load the deal
Sign Alex Wood/whoever on a 1 year show me contract and sell them the NL pitcher's park and good team defense
Keep Urena and Conley and stop being fucking cheap
Sign 3-4 Neil Walker type vets ($2 and under each) to round out bench, backup catcher, and another lefty reliever
Protect as many arms on 40 man as you can and sort them out in March

That becomes a respectable product that's not an embarrassment and will be under $80 million (maybe even under $75), and they'll probably be able to shed $7+ million of that in deadline trades and calling up minimum salaries. Nothing longterm on the books that impacts any major deals as Chen money is coming off soon.

They need to act like a franchise and not accept 2 more years of just promoting guys internally and giving Herrera and Prados playing time.

[Nick]

People cry about the 2nd lowest payroll and they also cry about about spending cash on Castellanos or others. The plan is working fine right now just have to be patient-2020 is add a few vets to core to help now and maybe 2021 and finish #3-10 in draft. 2021 is the year they have had circled since bought team

I'm sorry but bringing in Kole Calhoun and Ian Desmond are not "adding vets to the core". These are scab players ala Neil Walker, Curtis Granderson, etc. Bringing those guys in does nothing to help the cause in 2021. I'm not in love with the idea of bringing in Ozuna or Castellanos, but at least with them it's yes, these are going to be players that can help us when we're ready to compete. I don't see why bringing in a cream of the crop player (Cole, Rendon, Strasburg) is so out of the question, our payroll is laughably low, we've got a new TV contract set to be signed in the very immediate future. If I'm a new owner I'm not gonna be reckless, but I'm gonna want to win, and yeah maybe I spend a little more than I'd like, but at some point you'll have to spend money to get where you want to be, so why not try to put your stamp and say things are going to be different early in your tenure as owner/new FO.

[rmc523]

I'm sorry but bringing in Kole Calhoun and Ian Desmond are not "adding vets to the core". These are scab players ala Neil Walker, Curtis Granderson, etc. Bringing those guys in does nothing to help the cause in 2021. I'm not in love with the idea of bringing in Ozuna or Castellanos, but at least with them it's yes, these are going to be players that can help us when we're ready to compete. I don't see why bringing in a cream of the crop player (Cole, Rendon, Strasburg) is so out of the question, our payroll is laughably low, we've got a new TV contract set to be signed in the very immediate future. If I'm a new owner I'm not gonna be reckless, but I'm gonna want to win, and yeah maybe I spend a little more than I'd like, but at some point you'll have to spend money to get where you want to be, so why not try to put your stamp and say things are going to be different early in your tenure as owner/new FO.

The problem with those guys is you're going to have to way overbid since half the league is going to be in on them (and I advocate signing them).

[Nick]

The problem with those guys is you're going to have to way overbid since half the league is going to be in on them (and I advocate signing them).

Yeah I get it. I just feel like they could give Gerrit Cole a 5-year/$200 million contract and still be a below average payroll team. Then once that contract comes off the books that's pretty much the earliest that we're going to have to actually pay the players that work out for us since outside of Anderson and possibly guys like Alcantara and maybe Lopez all our future hopes are tied to guys that haven't made it to the majors, or just made it to the majors. (Diaz) I don't believe for a second that having a $50 million payroll instead of a $90 million payroll in 2020 and 2021 will mean that we'll be able to have a $130 million payroll in 2022-2023.

[lou]

Yeah I get it. I just feel like they could give Gerrit Cole a 5-year/$200 million contract and still be a below average payroll team. Then once that contract comes off the books that's pretty much the earliest that we're going to have to actually pay the players that work out for us since outside of Anderson and possibly guys like Alcantara and maybe Lopez all our future hopes are tied to guys that haven't made it to the majors, or just made it to the majors. (Diaz) I don't believe for a second that having a $50 million payroll instead of a $90 million payroll in 2020 and 2021 will mean that we'll be able to have a $130 million payroll in 2022-2023.

Yea. Basically how I see it. They can give out around $45 million per year in longterm money if they'd want. At least $15-18 of that has to expire by 2024, ideally a little more but still OK if not if it's a total stud like Rendon or Cole.

If Rendon, Cole, Strausburg, Ozuna, Wheeler, Castellanos, and maybe 2-3 other guys fit into that, cool? It's not spending to spend. All of these guys are going to be reallh good in 2 years still.

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Spending $8 million bucks on Calhoun is the worst idea. That's just dead money. Spend money that's useful, with Urena and Conley having 2021 control, or a pure rehab upside in their prime guy like Alex Wood

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If they aren't going to spend real money, I legit want them to sign 5 Neil Walkers for $10 million or less and hope to get 1 WAR out of those dudes. Which is legitimately a 6-7 win improvement versus what they got out of Granderson, Prado, Chen, Herrera, etc.

If you're going to suck, SUCK. The Dolphins are getting that right big time this year. Problem for the Marlins is, this will be year 3 of it.

[tjfla]

From MLBTradeRumors-FA Predictions

29. Avisail Garcia – Marlins. Two years, $12MM.

They also predict Ozuna and Didi around 45 Million and Castellanos to 58 million

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That's an absurd low contract for guys that can easily pop 3 WAR seasons for a few years in their prime. 4/$64-76 range is fine easily.

Regardless, the issue isn't on the field. It makes sense to "tank" another year and get another year of development before making FA commitments. But, they also have the TV deal, naming rights, building their brand, etc. I think it's more important to "BUILD" as one has said versus just accumulating picks, which usually don't work out.

A perfect offseason for me is something like:

Ozuna or Castellanos for a reasonable 3-4 year deal
Buyout Anderson for 5 and front load the deal
Sign Alex Wood/whoever on a 1 year show me contract and sell them the NL pitcher's park and good team defense
Keep Urena and Conley and stop being fucking cheap
Sign 3-4 Neil Walker type vets ($2 and under each) to round out bench, backup catcher, and another lefty reliever
Protect as many arms on 40 man as you can and sort them out in March

That becomes a respectable product that's not an embarrassment and will be under $80 million (maybe even under $75), and they'll probably be able to shed $7+ million of that in deadline trades and calling up minimum salaries. Nothing longterm on the books that impacts any major deals as Chen money is coming off soon.

They need to act like a franchise and not accept 2 more years of just promoting guys internally and giving Herrera and Prados playing time.

By way Ozuna and Abreu got QO and Didi did not. Marlins have made it know they will NOT give up a draft pick unless its for someone like Rendon/Cole

NOT perfect but offseason should look something like this

Avisail Garcia for 2 years(U can ask me why I keep bringing up his name if u want)
SP like Tanner Roark/Porcello/Teheran/Pineda/Kyle Gibson on a 1 yr+option for 15-18 million
Sign RP they want Romo to be closer but looking at Cishek/Betances
Get a vet bat(Heard Brett Gardner/Corey Dickerson/Kole Calhoun as faves and all are LHB) Calhoun is a FA now

As for Urena they aren't giving him away BUT if they sign a SP and Closer type in FA don't be surprised if in Jan/Feb u see him dealt for draft pick. Marlins want more pool $ and IFA veryyyyyy bad trading Urena to Oakland/TB gets them that

They want 3-4 FA. RHB with power,SP who can eat innings,Closer,and would love a LHB but arent chasing at the prices right now

Of course they will sign 7-10 Milb invites/vets but for cheap

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Yeah I get it. I just feel like they could give Gerrit Cole a 5-year/$200 million contract and still be a below average payroll team. Then once that contract comes off the books that's pretty much the earliest that we're going to have to actually pay the players that work out for us since outside of Anderson and possibly guys like Alcantara and maybe Lopez all our future hopes are tied to guys that haven't made it to the majors, or just made it to the majors. (Diaz) I don't believe for a second that having a $50 million payroll instead of a $90 million payroll in 2020 and 2021 will mean that we'll be able to have a $130 million payroll in 2022-2023.

Don't forget teams like Houston/NYY/NYM/LAD can offer the same contract and are alot closer to the WS

I think they should break the bank for Rendon fwiw

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Ozuna with the QO pretty much takes him OUT for us and Mattingly back takes Puig out. Bats left are Castellanos,Didi,Avisail Garcia or trade for Desmond,JD Martinez

I would be cool with Didi especially at 3/40 and he is fine playing 2B,SS,3B but in reality they arent gonna be hot on him with Isan,Jazz,Anderson set in IF(Anderson set at 3B IF get Avisail and LHB like Calhoun to play OF)

As for Avisail Garcia the reason I keep mentioning him AND sites say we will probably sign him is because Miami has him as a low price target(6-8 million a year)RHB and have made it well know in baseball circles. In fact supposedly we already have a contract lined up for him

ALOT of moving parts right now and GM Meetings are next week. They are trying to do trades as well in salary dumps

Avisail Garcia
Tanner Roark or Micheal Pineda
Sergio Romo
Whoever says YES first to 3-5 Million-Brett Gardner,Corey Dickerson,Kole Calhoun,whoever else is a vet LHB

[Nick]

Garcia is basically Harold Ramirez.

[Namaste]

Please God not Brett Gardner.

[lou]

From MLBTradeRumors-FA Predictions

They also predict Ozuna and Didi around 45 Million and Castellanos to 58 million

They should sign all 3 of them if those are the prices

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Avisail is a good secondary plan for 2 years though. He has upside if he can stay healthy.

[Ralph]

Castellanos at that price would be interesting. I've always thought he'd be a better fit at 1b. No idea why he has never been tried there.

[tjfla]

Please God not Brett Gardner.

Highly doubtful but they are considering him

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They should sign all 3 of them if those are the prices

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Avisail is a good secondary plan for 2 years though. He has upside if he can stay healthy.

Ozuna is pretty much dead at this point with the QO but I would take Didi or Castellanos at 3/45 to 50

Didi especially if he says sure I will play 2B or 3B

Avisail Garcia seems to be option 1 in 2020 plan. RHB with some power who can play the corners then move onto arms. When they get that stuff then will look at who is left on market. Didi/Castellanos/Gardner/Dickerson/Calhoun and trades all options

#1 reason they like Garcia is power. See 20-30 HR when healthy while Austin Dean has no power and Harold can hit but 10-15 type

[rmc523]

From MLBTradeRumors-FA Predictions

29. Avisail Garcia – Marlins. Two years, $12MM.

They also predict Ozuna and Didi around 45 Million and Castellanos to 58 million

- - - - - - - - - -



By way Ozuna and Abreu got QO and Didi did not. Marlins have made it know they will NOT give up a draft pick unless its for someone like Rendon/Cole

NOT perfect but offseason should look something like this

Avisail Garcia for 2 years(U can ask me why I keep bringing up his name if u want)
SP like Tanner Roark/Porcello/Teheran/Pineda/Kyle Gibson on a 1 yr+option for 15-18 million
Sign RP they want Romo to be closer but looking at Cishek/Betances
Get a vet bat(Heard Brett Gardner/Corey Dickerson/Kole Calhoun as faves and all are LHB) Calhoun is a FA now

As for Urena they aren't giving him away BUT if they sign a SP and Closer type in FA don't be surprised if in Jan/Feb u see him dealt for draft pick. Marlins want more pool $ and IFA veryyyyyy bad trading Urena to Oakland/TB gets them that

They want 3-4 FA. RHB with power,SP who can eat innings,Closer,and would love a LHB but arent chasing at the prices right now

Of course they will sign 7-10 Milb invites/vets but for cheap

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Don't forget teams like Houston/NYY/NYM/LAD can offer the same contract and are alot closer to the WS

I think they should break the bank for Rendon fwiw

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Ozuna with the QO pretty much takes him OUT for us and Mattingly back takes Puig out. Bats left are Castellanos,Didi,Avisail Garcia or trade for Desmond,JD Martinez

I would be cool with Didi especially at 3/40 and he is fine playing 2B,SS,3B but in reality they arent gonna be hot on him with Isan,Jazz,Anderson set in IF(Anderson set at 3B IF get Avisail and LHB like Calhoun to play OF)

As for Avisail Garcia the reason I keep mentioning him AND sites say we will probably sign him is because Miami has him as a low price target(6-8 million a year)RHB and have made it well know in baseball circles. In fact supposedly we already have a contract lined up for him

ALOT of moving parts right now and GM Meetings are next week. They are trying to do trades as well in salary dumps

Avisail Garcia
Tanner Roark or Micheal Pineda
Sergio Romo
Whoever says YES first to 3-5 Million-Brett Gardner,Corey Dickerson,Kole Calhoun,whoever else is a vet LHB

Meaning taking on salary to get better things, or trying to make trades to dump salary as usual?

[tjfla]

Meaning taking on salary to get better things, or trying to make trades to dump salary as usual?

Meaning they are willing to take on salary-JD Martinez/Desmond/Ellsbury/arms IF teams throw in prospects,picks,IFA $

2020 means NOTHING