2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

Well if he could OPS .830 at the Majors right now I would be trilled instead of Aguilar's .700 OPS. He's a much much better defender also which Aguilar is rating negatively.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. As we've seen guys like Isan Diaz and Jesus Sanchez absolutely crush AAA (much better numbers than Diaz currently has) and then struggle at the majors. Heck Diaz himself has 171 ABs at the majors which is a good chunk, and he's posted a .600 OPS.

[Lee Stone]

1. I would love to keep trying Sanchez, but he sucks this year Lee. 84 wRC+ .... he's 16% worst than league average. JJ has 19 HR in AAA and it's really hot. We need to give him a chance.
2. No reason to rush Meyer? Castano is not good, Braxton Garret has been lucky, we all know he will implode in a couple more starts, Trevor needs some time in AAA. Meyer is carving up AAA hitters and its more than ready to start in the Majors. Eury is a long shot, but we need to WIN NOW!!!
3. Aguilar is a top hitter? By WAR he's 12 in the Marlins list of hitters with a strong 0.2 war lol. ... less than Joe Dunand and Luke Williams. Lewin Diaz has 18 HR in AAA, slugging .830

In all fairness, Neidert, Hernandez, and Braxton Garrett have all pitched every bit as well as Meyer at Jacksonville.

For the sake of controversy, my plan for the Marlins right now would be aggressive. I believe that a starting rotation involving Cabrera, Luzardo, Eder, Meyer, Perez, Poteet, Garrett, Neidert is perfectly functional for the near future.. That leaves Alcantara, Lopez and Rogers as featured trade bait for the deadline (or sooner). Why? Because the team needs at least eight new starters on the field (presuming that Chisholm remains). I don't see any players in the system as plus major leaguers in the near future. I think a major deal with the Cards could net O'Neill, Gorman and Jordan Walker. Toronto has Moreno and others to deal. Seattle has some blue chippers. I want a team built on speed, defense, and high on base percentage.

[Erick]

In all fairness, Neidert, Hernandez, and Braxton Garrett have all pitched every bit as well as Meyer at Jacksonville.

For the sake of controversy, my plan for the Marlins right now would be aggressive. I believe that a starting rotation involving Cabrera, Luzardo, Eder, Meyer, Perez, Poteet, Garrett, Neidert is perfectly functional for the near future.. That leaves Alcantara, Lopez and Rogers as featured trade bait for the deadline (or sooner). Why? Because the team needs at least eight new starters on the field (presuming that Chisholm remains). I don't see any players in the system as plus major leaguers in the near future. I think a major deal with the Cards could net O'Neill, Gorman and Jordan Walker. Toronto has Moreno and others to deal. Seattle has some blue chippers. I want a team built on speed, defense, and high on base percentage.

There’s no way you’re serious.

[sports24/7]

If the Marlins can sell high on Braxton Garrett, maybe including him in a deal to get a bigger return in another deal, I’d absolutely do that. If not, his performance this year should make them feel better about including Lopez and/or some of their other top pitching prospects in deals, as he looks like he could at the very least be a serviceable starter moving forward.

[fish16]

If the Marlins can sell high on Braxton Garrett, maybe including him in a deal to get a bigger return in another deal, I’d absolutely do that. If not, his performance this year should make them feel better about including Lopez and/or some of their other top pitching prospects in deals, as he looks like he could at the very least be a serviceable starter moving forward.

absolutely. he's given us everything we could possibly expect. he's likely a bottom of the rotation guy or a "heaney" type, but that's a good big leaguer. He has always had talent, it's why we picked him so high, it was just the loss of velocity that put his big league ability into question, but he's missing bats a ton more at the major league level. he's earned a spot in the rotation for the rest of the year. good for him, he's had a crazy career since being drafted.

[fish16]

Mish and Barry Jackson dropped their latest piece for the herald. Some draft stuff but on Watson, they are sending him to aaa to be around some of the borderline big leaguers to be around them for a little to see how they approach every day. Seems like obvious talent but the inevitable struggles for a guy who has always been the most talented guy on the field have exacerbated some immaturity issues. Not a bad strategy to help him, but never a good sign when a guy you drafted less than a year ago is being compared to Daryl strawberry, Carl Everett, and doc gooden

[Namaste]

Max Meyer called up to the bigs

YASSSSSSSSS

[Erick]

I have a serious question.

Was Kim Ng’s first offseason as a GM the single worst offseason in Marlins history?

There have been a lot of bad moves in Marlins history, but she really gets a 100% A+ for ALL of her acquisitions being an absolute disaster. Joey Wendle’s the best guy, and he’s been on the IL like 3 times.

What a horrible job she’s done, and we should be thankful that Sandy likes Miami. He could’ve easily declined the extension, thank God he didn’t.

[dgriot]

Skimming through past offseason summaries made it clear that it's been a long time since there's been an undeniably "good" one - it all ranges from treading water to ugh (for different reasons/circumstances).

I'd rank 2016 worse, FWIW:

Signed Chen for 5 year/80 million
Extended Gordon for 5 year/50 million
Traded Trevor Williams for Richard Mitchell to complete that dumb Benedict coach hiring
Signed other retread failures like Edwin Jackson and Chris Johnson

The best major league signing was Ichiro, and that was purely for promotional/fan service reasons that only a non-contending team could provide. (Honorable mention to Mathis, depending on how much you believed in his ability to handle pitchers in a backup role.)

[Nick]

Skimming through past offseason summaries made it clear that it's been a long time since there's been an undeniably "good" one - it all ranges from treading water to ugh (for different reasons/circumstances).

I'd rank 2016 worse, FWIW:

Signed Chen for 5 year/80 million
Extended Gordon for 5 year/50 million
Traded Trevor Williams for Richard Mitchell to complete that dumb Benedict coach hiring
Signed other retread failures like Edwin Jackson and Chris Johnson

The best major league signing was Ichiro, and that was purely for promotional/fan service reasons that only a non-contending team could provide. (Honorable mention to Mathis, depending on how much you believed in his ability to handle pitchers in a backup role.)

I'm trying to think of our last legitimately good Free Agent signing. (And I mean one where we actually spent legitimate money. Not a reliever that we spent $2 million on and it worked out) Carlos Delgado? That was in 2005. And we traded him after a year.

[lou]

If the Marlins can sell high on Braxton Garrett, maybe including him in a deal to get a bigger return in another deal, I’d absolutely do that. If not, his performance this year should make them feel better about including Lopez and/or some of their other top pitching prospects in deals, as he looks like he could at the very least be a serviceable starter moving forward.

Took a break for 2 weeks of following this shitbird of a team. Back caught up now and they suck.

Want to mention here - maybe Garrett is starting to click. This is very interesting - https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/the-in...axton-garrett/

He's a hold for me. This is a really interesting development if he's turning into something. Plus, never trade 24 year old lefties.

[lou]

In all fairness, Neidert, Hernandez, and Braxton Garrett have all pitched every bit as well as Meyer at Jacksonville.

For the sake of controversy, my plan for the Marlins right now would be aggressive. I believe that a starting rotation involving Cabrera, Luzardo, Eder, Meyer, Perez, Poteet, Garrett, Neidert is perfectly functional for the near future.. That leaves Alcantara, Lopez and Rogers as featured trade bait for the deadline (or sooner). Why? Because the team needs at least eight new starters on the field (presuming that Chisholm remains). I don't see any players in the system as plus major leaguers in the near future. I think a major deal with the Cards could net O'Neill, Gorman and Jordan Walker. Toronto has Moreno and others to deal. Seattle has some blue chippers. I want a team built on speed, defense, and high on base percentage.

Fucking yikes. Lee, Sandy is a top 5 asset in MLB right now and likely the best longterm SP in the league. Yes. Top 5. His contract, production, and innings potential are complete team changers. Unless something like Julio Rodriguez is coming back, no thanks. I wouldn't trade him for O'Neill, Gorman, and Walker today. And I like those guys.

However, you can sell me on Lopez. Not Rogers (selling low, never be trading lefties unless completely forced into it). Pablo would get something great. If you can tell me Luzardo will be healthy, I can absolutely live with this opening day next year.

Sandy, Luzardo, Meyer, Rogers, Cabrera
_____, Bender, Pop, Hernandez,* Poteet*
Bleier, Scott, Garrett*

Mid-Season - Eury, Eder

*These guys could be real 1+ times through the order weapons to eat 2-3+ innings to deflect against likely lower inning totals for everyone but Sandy. Call Luzardo-Cabrera an average 140 IP each and Hernandez, Poteet, and Garett throwing a combined 300+ IP.... this leaves 350ish innings for the other 5 bullpen relievers and call ups. It works on paper.


I'd prefer to move Cabrera and swap Pablo in there though. That should really be the idea here. Meyer/Cabrera, Watson/Salas, Lewin (likely no room on 26 man roster next year absent Soler opting out which seems doubtful), Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick, Lewis/Cappe/Morisette/Nunez, and Sixto/Fulton/Soriano/Hernandez/Garrett, etc.

Trade 1 guy from bracket there, and that's 6 pretty nice players + your MLB overflow (Bass? Sulser? Floro? Aguilar?) to move. This has to be able to get a longterm impact bat. i.e., CENTER FIELD!!!!!

[lou]

the team needs at least eight new starters on the field (presuming that Chisholm remains)

I needed to break this out separately as this is bizarre short and longterm.

C - Fortes is playing at a 2+ WAR pace right now. Clearly the slugging is off the charts, but showing he can hit. He's cheap for years and deserves a real chance. The new ZIPS projections shows him as a quality starter hitting a high .600 OPS which is great. Stallings is vastly underachieving. They have high upside C prospects (Mack, Hernandez), and some other possible plus backups (Henry) around. Also some hopes and prayers (Banfield). This is a pretty deep overall unit that is cost effective, even if there is no superstar catcher prospect (which everyone seems to have). This is fine unless you think Fortes completely falls apart and Stallings won't BABIP correct (still 60 points under).

1B - Cooper is an all star and controlled next year. He's a 2.5+ WAR pace. Lewin is a decent prospect. I think Anderson can play here in a pinch also and he's fine. Berry may end up here longterm. This is not an issue considering you can also sign the Joc Pedersons for cheap year to year on 1 year deals. Aguilar was fine before this year you know. Justin Bour had his moments, etc. No issues.

2B - Jazz is going nowhere. The implication they move him is WUT? Likewise, Morisette/Lewis/maybe Watson is a real pipeline here and they have Berti short term even if he's averaging out. No problems here.

SS - Rojas is playing a 2+ WAR pace, and Wendle a 4+ WAR pace. Unspectacularly fine (assuming Wendle comes down). Both controlled next year, and they have numerous SS in the pipeline (Watson, Salas, Nunez). Those guys may move off though and Nunez may be a backup defender if he even makes it. Hence, they could probably splurge on Correa/Swanson/Turner here if Bruce isn't cheap. This is a real place to upgrade short and longterm.

3B - Anderson is playing a 3+ WAR pace and Wendle 4+ WAR. They say Berry can play 3B. Further, Salas probably moves here for sure and there is also Cappe. This is in pretty good shape. I'd say they don't need a 3B longterm right now and let this play out. Assets should be spent on 1B after 2023 when Cooper is gone.

LF - They seem enamored with Bleday, and Sanchez is struggling but he's showing solid defense that would translate here and has power. They won't give up on these two until trade deadline 2023 if they need a bat and they both stink. They are still very young. They should see if they click because they do need to be cost effective and seek upside. Basically, this is do nothing now.

CF - Nothing. So they absolutely need 1 here. Sanchez seems capable as a backup against RHP.

RF - Garcia is expensive and they won't give up for awhile. Say what you will about this.

DH - Soler is expensive and they won't give up ever on him. Same as above.


Big picture, this team needs 2 major bats. It's likely a SS since they just took Berry who they think can handle 3B and moving on from Rojas starting even if he's a fine competent starter, and a center fielder.


Next year, this is more than fine with the projected pitching:

Fortes, Stallings
Cooper*
Jazz
______, Rojas/Wendle
Anderson, Wendle/Berti
Bleday**
_______, J. Sanchez/Burdick
Garcia
Soler

*Anderson plays a bunch here
**Anderson and Sanchez play a lot here to help



It's like we said - keep all the SP and sign Nimmo and Correa/Turner/Boegarts/Swanson and that team looks great. Or since they are cheap, trade out from the excess and get the CF and then make "Swanson" or whoever the Jayson Werth signing.

8 bats is absurd. The foundation is here short and longterm. The issue is they have legitimately 10-12 longterm SP prospects and won't fucking trade any of them to fix the obvious issue in CF noted since October, and then Bruce is fucking cheap AF on top of that.

[Nick]

Random Trade idea:

Yankees get: Pablo Lopez and Jorge Soler

Marlins get: Anthony Volpe and Everson Pereira

[Todd]

Fucking yikes. Lee, Sandy is a top 5 asset in MLB right now and likely the best longterm SP in the league. Yes. Top 5. His contract, production, and innings potential are complete team changers. Unless something like Julio Rodriguez is coming back, no thanks. I wouldn't trade him for O'Neill, Gorman, and Walker today. And I like those guys.

However, you can sell me on Lopez. Not Rogers (selling low, never be trading lefties unless completely forced into it). Pablo would get something great. If you can tell me Luzardo will be healthy, I can absolutely live with this opening day next year.

Sandy, Luzardo, Meyer, Rogers, Cabrera
_____, Bender, Pop, Hernandez,* Poteet*
Bleier, Scott, Garrett*

Mid-Season - Eury, Eder

*These guys could be real 1+ times through the order weapons to eat 2-3+ innings to deflect against likely lower inning totals for everyone but Sandy. Call Luzardo-Cabrera an average 140 IP each and Hernandez, Poteet, and Garett throwing a combined 300+ IP.... this leaves 350ish innings for the other 5 bullpen relievers and call ups. It works on paper.


I'd prefer to move Cabrera and swap Pablo in there though. That should really be the idea here. Meyer/Cabrera, Watson/Salas, Lewin (likely no room on 26 man roster next year absent Soler opting out which seems doubtful), Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick, Lewis/Cappe/Morisette/Nunez, and Sixto/Fulton/Soriano/Hernandez/Garrett, etc.

Trade 1 guy from bracket there, and that's 6 pretty nice players + your MLB overflow (Bass? Sulser? Floro? Aguilar?) to move. This has to be able to get a longterm impact bat. i.e., CENTER FIELD!!!!!

Elieser Hernandez has like an ERA over 4 and 750 OPS against in innings 1 thru 3. For his career as a reliever he has an ERA over 6 and OPS against over 800. I dont know why you like him so much and insist on inserting him into all of your roster projections. He is objectively not good. And it's not like he has electric stuff. You tend to be pretty on point but you have a weird blind spot here and it is baffling that you think he can be a "weapon".