2024 Game Thread

[lou]

It’s an interesting take lou considering the only person I’ve had drama with in 19 years of posting going back to the old site is……..fish16.


Anyway, I’m really shocked that they let Stott walk with a year left. I get that there may be some serious philosophical differences between Peter and Stott but my on-the-surface knee jerk reaction is……this looks awful considering how well our pitching has performed the last few years.

I'm saying you like to watch it!

A slow moving trainwreck of groans when I mention "service time considerations."

[fish16]

yeah it sucks shit. I know we benefitted from it last year, but go back to 1 wild card, it was the perfect playoff configuration, it didn't need to change.

I’m all for more wild cards, I just hate playing 162 games over 6 months to play 2 games and be done. I get that it leads to the division winners having a full week off, but it should be at least best of 5 or 7

[Nick]

Orioles just played 162 games to only score 1 run in 2 home playoff games and have their season ended in 24
hours.

I also have no idea how the tigers have done what they have done for 2 months now

I absolutely hate the best of 3 format for the wild card round

yeah it sucks shit. I know we benefitted from it last year, but go back to 1 wild card, it was the perfect playoff configuration, it didn't need to change.

[fish16]

Orioles just played 162 games to only score 1 run in 2 home playoff games and have their season ended in 24
hours.

I also have no idea how the tigers have done what they have done for 2 months now

I absolutely hate the best of 3 format for the wild card round

[fish16]

It’s an interesting take lou considering the only person I’ve had drama with in 19 years of posting going back to the old site is……..fish16.


Anyway, I’m really shocked that they let Stott walk with a year left. I get that there may be some serious philosophical differences between Peter and Stott but my on-the-surface knee jerk reaction is……this looks awful considering how well our pitching has performed the last few years.

Could be because you post almost nothing of substance

[Namaste]

Except Namaste as he is a drama whore

It’s an interesting take lou considering the only person I’ve had drama with in 19 years of posting going back to the old site is……..fish16.


Anyway, I’m really shocked that they let Stott walk with a year left. I get that there may be some serious philosophical differences between Peter and Stott but my on-the-surface knee jerk reaction is……this looks awful considering how well our pitching has performed the last few years.

[lou]

I wasn't arguing, just giving my opinion that things could potentially be a little closer than they seem to appear off of a 100 loss season so i wouldnt go scorched earth. i think your depth chart is about right. I would just leave Burger at 3b for next year absent a surprise move, especially given that we have a complete glaring hole on the left side of the infield. i get the defense stinks, but i would just leave burger there and try to make a move for some sort of SS AND 3b of the future with Luzardo and other pieces. Not in the same deal but just saying that those 2 positions are the glaring holes internally right now long term.

You could argue CF as well but i would give Sanoja a shot moving forward. I love the contact ability and plate discipline. If we can acquire 2 young, power bats at SS and 3b, i love that along with Burger and Sanchez and Norby plus the contact guys like Sanoja and Edwards, plus Ramirez appears to be a good combo of both power and contact, and then you have the wild card DDLS. I could work with that as a hitting core moving forward if the pitching is what it appears to be when healthy.

Bottom line- they need to identify a SS of the future via trade and go do what it takes to get him. I cannot watch another season of retread veteran at SS. I was cool with anderson because i liked the bounceback opportunity, but obviously he is done, and they cannot continue to ignore the glaring hole organizationally there for yet another offseason.

We always argue so lets always note when we are actually being good boys. Everyone here will appreciate it. Except Namaste as he is a drama whore.

Sanoja is just a little guy so he's a bench projection forever. But, he might be a good one there for sure.

It's the broken record - SS, 3B, and right handed OF and what are they going to do to get there.

The only (and I do mean only) thing that will chunk into that longterm view to me is if Otto is a range over arm Berti like SS defender, the RHP splits hold up (.675+ OPS), and he can handle 90+ starts at SS, and Serna is totally acceptable to cover the rest predominantly against LHP which he will presumably hit (dipped a little in 24, but he hit them hard in 22/23 so likely a SSS fluke). Otto is then late game substitutions always as the presumed superior defender. That would give them a defensive/offensive platoon, with Edwards sucking up 130-140 games at 2B, Serna the rest at 2B, and then Serna can find more starts at 3B and LF if he is really going to hit. Serna is another little guy so penciling him into a starter position may not be smart and if he makes it, might be a Berti like 100-110 game starter himself. Which there is nothing wrong with. And maybe Edwards doesn't hit as much moving forward and Serna just gets a little more time there too. Who knows.

That is a "fun" development that could happen, and then we're looking at 3B/OF as long term pieces. I am just saying, I want a SS too, but I won't be surprised if all of a sudden we start hearing Otto and Serna as a viable platoon option as soon as the summer.

And let's be wild and say Martorella and Serna are both "ok" enough for LF on top of that. They do say Martorella can play enough LF even if he is likely a future 1B.

So 2026:

C - Mack, Ramirez
1B/DH - Burger, DDLS (and Ramirez)
2B - Edwards (and Serna)
SS - Otto, Serna
3B - _______ (and Serna and Sanoja)
LF - Norby, Martorella (and Serna)
CF - ______ Sanoja
RF - Sanchez


Could they actually just need 2 bats here? There is some OF redundancy with Stowers, Dane, Marsee, Pintar, Mesa Jr., and I guess Berry so there can be some failures here with Norby, Martorella, and Sanoja, but I do wonder if Bendix gets the last laugh here with Otto and Serna being able to handle and we're just a punch of pricks. Practically, Martorella doesn't work as they'd need a right fielder, but maybe the CF is a CF vs RHP, and RF vs LHP and Sanoja gets the LHP in CF, etc.

Anyways, there are potential good permutations here and I note, LaViolette/Cannarella could absolutely be starting in CF opening day 2026 ala Langford type move.


So big picture, what kind of 3B can Luzardo and relievers get kind of immediately? Can they figure out how to get Royce Lewis/Brooks Lee (this is super ideal to me)? N. Marte coming off a truly putrid suspension year as an ultimate buy low? That's probably the move if they believe Otto/Serna can do it. Something like that.

[Todd]

i get the post, i just dont see the purpose of trading sanchez or burger. their value is not high enough in a trade to justify trading 2 at least league average bats on a team desperately in need of bats. They dont need to save the money, and what you get back wont give you what they provide. Burger especially. For all his defensive limitations, it is a step backwards to get rid of a guy who can hit 30 bombs and put up close to an .800 OPS give or take. it doesnt need to be completely scorched earth. They have great pitching when healthy, trading 2 competent bats on an offense so terrible does nothing but hurt the small potential that this team can take a step towards contention next year

The problem with a guy like Burger is he is a pretty awful hitter in every aspect of hitting outside of hitting for power. He's OK to have on the team as your 7th or 8th bat but he should not be one of your best offensive players.

[fish16]

I'm not arguing with you just to be clear, it's a scorch earth approach if they so choose to remove all money


How about this for a subtle tweak for call it say....... $53m at the MLB payroll level. Keep Burger, Sanchez, Bender, and Nardi who will all be in arb.

This if for 2026 still:

C - Mack, Ramirez
1B/DH - Burger, DDLS
2B - Edwards/Serna, Serna/Otto (keep 2)
SS - _______
3B - _______
LF - Norby, ______
CF - ______ Sanjoa/Mesa Jr./Marsee/Dane/Stowers (pick 1)
RF - Sanchez
AAA - Banfield, Martorella, Berry, Pauley, Other CF

SP - Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Weathers, Snelling
RHP - Max, McMillian, Faucher, Mazur, Bender
LHP - Nardi, Veneziano, Simpson
AAA/AA - Noble, White, Fulton, a few relievers who don't suck

Dead $ - Garcia, Stanton


+ Trade Returns - Sandy, Luzardo, one of Edwards/Serna/Otto, Fortes, and a few relievers/18 year olds way far away. No top prospects/young guys moved except maybe one of the 2B if it's the other 2 of them. Yes Otto is the low man here people.

+ 2025 # 1 pick (LaViolette/Cannarella - fast moving college CF)

+ $30-35m+ Bruce dollars as they spend $80-90m normally.


The trades get 3 blank lines and they have real budget for a stopgap option for the fourth, as the top 3 pick in 2025 is likely fast moving. So we're back to luxury upgrades for any remaining money with whoever is worst above.


If *this* is the plan, I get it?

2025 will be better than this year, but will still peak at a 75 win team. Doesn't fix holding onto Luzardo for too long, but that opening day 2026 team looks like a Rays team top to bottom and the minors are loaded beyond all of that above with Salas, Head, Morlando, C. Johnson, potential risers like Shim and Valor, and others. It's maybe not the Sandy led team we wanted, but could be extremely interesting very fast.


We'll see but I hope they opt for 2025. This makes more long term sense however.

I wasn't arguing, just giving my opinion that things could potentially be a little closer than they seem to appear off of a 100 loss season so i wouldnt go scorched earth. i think your depth chart is about right. I would just leave Burger at 3b for next year absent a surprise move, especially given that we have a complete glaring hole on the left side of the infield. i get the defense stinks, but i would just leave burger there and try to make a move for some sort of SS AND 3b of the future with Luzardo and other pieces. Not in the same deal but just saying that those 2 positions are the glaring holes internally right now long term.

You could argue CF as well but i would give Sanoja a shot moving forward. I love the contact ability and plate discipline. If we can acquire 2 young, power bats at SS and 3b, i love that along with Burger and Sanchez and Norby plus the contact guys like Sanoja and Edwards, plus Ramirez appears to be a good combo of both power and contact, and then you have the wild card DDLS. I could work with that as a hitting core moving forward if the pitching is what it appears to be when healthy.

Bottom line- they need to identify a SS of the future via trade and go do what it takes to get him. I cannot watch another season of retread veteran at SS. I was cool with anderson because i liked the bounceback opportunity, but obviously he is done, and they cannot continue to ignore the glaring hole organizationally there for yet another offseason.

[lou]

i get the post, i just dont see the purpose of trading sanchez or burger. their value is not high enough in a trade to justify trading 2 at least league average bats on a team desperately in need of bats. They dont need to save the money, and what you get back wont give you what they provide. Burger especially. For all his defensive limitations, it is a step backwards to get rid of a guy who can hit 30 bombs and put up close to an .800 OPS give or take. it doesnt need to be completely scorched earth. They have great pitching when healthy, trading 2 competent bats on an offense so terrible does nothing but hurt the small potential that this team can take a step towards contention next year

I'm not arguing with you just to be clear, it's a scorch earth approach if they so choose to remove all money


How about this for a subtle tweak for call it say....... $53m at the MLB payroll level. Keep Burger, Sanchez, Bender, and Nardi who will all be in arb.

This if for 2026 still:

C - Mack, Ramirez
1B/DH - Burger, DDLS
2B - Edwards/Serna, Serna/Otto (keep 2)
SS - _______
3B - _______
LF - Norby, ______
CF - ______ Sanjoa/Mesa Jr./Marsee/Dane/Stowers (pick 1)
RF - Sanchez
AAA - Banfield, Martorella, Berry, Pauley, Other CF

SP - Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Weathers, Snelling
RHP - Max, McMillian, Faucher, Mazur, Bender
LHP - Nardi, Veneziano, Simpson
AAA/AA - Noble, White, Fulton, a few relievers who don't suck

Dead $ - Garcia, Stanton


+ Trade Returns - Sandy, Luzardo, one of Edwards/Serna/Otto, Fortes, and a few relievers/18 year olds way far away. No top prospects/young guys moved except maybe one of the 2B if it's the other 2 of them. Yes Otto is the low man here people.

+ 2025 # 1 pick (LaViolette/Cannarella - fast moving college CF)

+ $30-35m+ Bruce dollars as they spend $80-90m normally.


The trades get 3 blank lines and they have real budget for a stopgap option for the fourth, as the top 3 pick in 2025 is likely fast moving. So we're back to luxury upgrades for any remaining money with whoever is worst above.


If *this* is the plan, I get it?

2025 will be better than this year, but will still peak at a 75 win team. Doesn't fix holding onto Luzardo for too long, but that opening day 2026 team looks like a Rays team top to bottom and the minors are loaded beyond all of that above with Salas, Head, Morlando, C. Johnson, potential risers like Shim and Valor, and others. It's maybe not the Sandy led team we wanted, but could be extremely interesting very fast.


We'll see but I hope they opt for 2025. This makes more long term sense however.

[fish16]

i get the post, i just dont see the purpose of trading sanchez or burger. their value is not high enough in a trade to justify trading 2 at least league average bats on a team desperately in need of bats. They dont need to save the money, and what you get back wont give you what they provide. Burger especially. For all his defensive limitations, it is a step backwards to get rid of a guy who can hit 30 bombs and put up close to an .800 OPS give or take. it doesnt need to be completely scorched earth. They have great pitching when healthy, trading 2 competent bats on an offense so terrible does nothing but hurt the small potential that this team can take a step towards contention next year

[lou]

bendix made it pretty clear that they wont be spending money btw, so those pipe dreams can stop. When you're asked about spending money and you immediately pivot to the cliche of rebuilding the organization from the ground up, it's pretty clear nothing is changing. Not saying it's not necessary to rebuild the infrastructure of the organization, but we heard the same bullshit with jeter and denbo. It's a way to pivot from a question of spending like a major league organization.

I will say that it is super annoying that bendix clearly planned to blow up this team from the moment he got here, but didnt have the stomach to do it right away. instead, they did nothing all offseason last year, got destroyed by injuries early, and then blew up the team the second they had a disastrous april and could theoretically justify it. a lot of this stuff is stuff they could have done last offseason and probably would have been in a better position right now had they done so. See luzardo.

Clearly his biggest failure. And don't stop there - Luzardo, Fortes, Burger, Sanchez, Bender, Sandy, and probably multiple relievers like Tinoco, Cronin, as churned etc.



Say what you will here, but just amuse me and if every one of those guys is traded ala a true full blow up, this is coming back in 2026 for $42m total (includes $15m in dead money to Stanton and Garcia sigh)

C - Mack, Ramirez (Banfield)
1B - DDLS, Martorella (Berry)
2B - Edwards, Otto
SS - Serna
3B - _______ (Pauley)
LF - Norby, Stowers/Dane
CF - ______ Sanjoa (Mesa Jr.)
RF - ______ (Marsee)

SP - Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Weathers, Snelling
RHP - Max, McMillian, Faucher, Mazur, _____
LHP - Fulton, Veneziano Simpson

With.... Noble and White in AA/AAA and presumably one of the college left handed CF in A+/AA as a fast mover



I will say pretty confidently, if they do trade Sandy and Luzardo, along with the other parts in Burger, Sanchez, Fortes, Bender, and some other relievers ala Brazoban type trades, we're talking quite a bit of bat talent coming back and a payroll even Bruce can appreciate. You'd imagine a real SS, 3B, and OF as the centerpieces, and one of Edwards/Serna/Otto is also shipped out in those deals to make room for it. The last blank line is of course the top 3 pick in 2025 we can dream is a Langford type fast mover.

And then you have $40-50m to spend as Bruce will do $80-90m so what's the luxury upgrade here? Probably a 1B, corner OF, or luxury reliever. I got 3 "starters" in the bullpen there in this hypothetical and Noble/White in AA/AAA so they ain't spending there.

I mean this all makes sense if 2025 doesn't matter. And the TV issues don't help.


This post is dedicated to the whole 2026 is circled club. All of this makes sense if 2026 is circled and 2025's sole task is to get Sandy, Luzardo, Burger, Sanchez, and tradeable relievers to June healthy and kicking ass. Every single player is club controlled pre arbitration on that list above besides Garrett, Cabrera, Weathers, and Max, and each would be controlled 3-4 more seasons.

[Nick]

I don’t remember that ever being a thing?

or was it a theoretical thing last time Ballys was considering dropping them?

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...284337559.html

[lou]

AA?

1. White
2. Noble
3. Dax
4. Jacob Miller
5. Karson Milbrandt

It's hard to say, but I think Noble and White open in A+ and then get to AA midseason if things go well. They don't have to push them fast. Millbrandt might open here too and be on the same timeline. Fulton is probably going to AA. Miller already is.


Maybe the loose depth chart is this, and this is going very deep name wise. There are a lot of fun names here at every level besides AA which is a little BLAH besides Fulton rebounding fast.


MLB Sandy, Luzardo, Garrett, Cabrera, Weathers (Eury)

AAA Max, Bellozo, Snelling, Mazur, Monteverde

AA Fulton, Miller, Buxton, M.D. Johnson

A+ Noble, White, Millbrandt, E. Olson

A/lower Benitez, Shim, A. May, Y. Santana, Shepardson

[Namaste]

Mel Stottlemyre Jr. let go. Seems like a huge mistake.

Holy Shit