Offseason Discussion - Positions Players/Bench

[Swifty]

Lou, with all due respect, what the fuck does it matter if he gets to type A? We're not going to fucking tender him and he's the kind of guy that if he is tendered it's a death knell for contract offers.

Simply put, if any team is offering you more than a warm AA body, you take it right now and you run.

We're not going anywhere next year with a slightly under $40 million payroll, we might not even go anywhere in 2011, might as well get Gaby a real audition before Logan takes over.

[lou]

Lou, with all due respect, what the fuck does it matter if he gets to type A? We're not going to fucking tender him and he's the kind of guy that if he is tendered it's a death knell for contract offers.

Simply put, if any team is offering you more than a warm AA body, you take it right now and you run.

We're not going anywhere next year with a slightly under $40 million payroll, we might not even go anywhere in 2011, might as well get Gaby a real audition before Logan takes over.

It matters a lot, because if he's going to be good this year, he's an easy tender because he is in his prime and will get a multi easily. NJ and Kiko were risks to take the arbitration, both have major health issues, and we have other plans. I can respect that. I don't think they do this just not to pay pick #40. I think they do this because the risk in guy accepting outweighs the risk in the draft pick. You guys can scream all you want, but that matters. I look at who was declined, especially like Randy Wolf, and it starts making sense of the market out there. If you think Nunez/Lindstrom is going to be better than Calero next year, isn't it smarter to keep Nunez/Lindstrom, still have their rights for 2011, instead of a one and done with Calero and the draft pick? I just don't see this being a major deal. It's slightly annoying, but not something to slam them OMG THEY ARE THE WORSTZ about. Look at non-arbitration list. A lot of better players on teams with larger payrolls there. So we think everyone else in baseball is more stupid?

Secondly, I don't see why Cantu doesn't start at 3B and Gaby at 1B, opening day. Even if Logan is "better" than Gaby, deflecting his arbitration is important so I see Morrision in AAA getting the Matt Wieters treatment, giving Gaby plenty of time to hit the ball before being relegated to bench/AAA. Gaby's going to get his shot.

Thirdly, you just said "we're not going anywhere next year with this payroll." It's december, so we are going to play this game again? 100 losses in 2008 right? We won 84. Won't crack 75 wins in 2009 right? We won 87 games last year with miserable, absolutely miserable, performances from 3B and the SP the second half of the season. Coghlan is the only guy on the team who "over achieved." It's reasonably to think everyone stays the same at worst which is a + .500 team. This team is going to be good unless there are mass injuries, and this team is going to be really good if Nolasco pitches like "good Nolasco," and at least two of Volstad, West, Miller, and Anibal can throw a low 4 era and eat up some innings. I really don't think this is a lot to ask for. What was it, we need a cumulative .743 OPS from Maybin (CF), Gaby/Morrison (1B), and Carroll/Petersen/Whoever (LF), to replace the losses of Uggla, Hermida, N.Johnson, and the Bonifacio starting PA? And that's not including the massive defensive upgrade those guys bring, meaning they actually have to hit less. I wouldn't be so quick to trash this team. I would have thought you learned from your picks the previous two years to see why you were so wrong, but I guess not. We're going to be fine. And if the pitchers break out, really freaking good.

And lastly and more on point, we can always trade Cantu in July if we aren't contending. You see any difference in package between right now and July? I don't. This also goes with whoever stays of Nunez/Lindstrom, Ross, and maybe throw in a SP in to the mix as well. This allows us to see if the SP moves forward and if we're a contender, if not we will have 3 or 4 of the top 10 most valuable assets in the bigs to trade in July getting the prospect you so desire anyways, and we're going to have kids playing all over the place giving experience. Sounds like a good blueprint to me.

[Fish and Chips]

/random Free Agent blur

Anyone interested in Vlad?

I think it would be cool, i have seen reports of vlad accepting a cheap 1 year offer for 3-5mil, and i think he will be the 2010's bobby abreu.

Put him in lf, force the FO to move CC back into the infileld and hit him behind hanley, and man if vlad can regain his form, that's a nasty 3-4 combo. and most importantly keep boner on the bench

lineup:
CF Maybin/2B Coghlan
2B Coghlan/ CF Maybin
SS Hanley
LF Vlad
3B() Cantu
C Baker
RF Ross
1B Sanchez

That a playoff lineup.

the payroll will most likely by around 42mil, so i dont know if the marlins will be able to fit it under 40mil without trading sanchez/miller or cantu

Yea his defense is very very very bad, but its LF, you can hide a bad defensive player there and hope the ball doesnt come near his zip code. And if he can have an .825-875OPS, i dont cared about his defense. Especially considering the fact that the marlins are planning to play a poor defensive LFer always(CC) his defensive inefficiences arent that big of a tradeoff.

Any thoughts?

[lou]

Vlad can't play the field. Even if he could, I don't think the Marlins can afford significant money to a player that has a high probability of injury.

I'm totally cool with a very simple and unflashy lineup.

R Maybin CF
L Coghlan 2B/LF
R Hanley SS
R Cantu 3B
L Baker C / R Paulino C
R Ross LF/RF
R G. Sanchez 1B / L "Veteran Lefty 1B/LF type"
R Carroll RF / S Bonifaco 2B / L "Veteran lefty 1B/LF type"

Basically, you're always playing Coghlan somewhere, you have your normal R/L platoon with Baker/Paulino, you have R/L splits with Gaby and some lefty veteran at 1B, and the "8th starting spot" is a weird positional platoon of Carroll in RF, Bonifacio at 2B, or "Veteran Lefty" in LF depending on which of those three gives you the best matchup. Really, I guess it's a four man platoon between 1B, and wherever Coghlan isn't playing.

This helps everyone. It doesn't make Bonifacio a pure starter, but you give him enough time (INITIALLY) to prove himself and maybe turn into Michael Bourn. It lets you also ease Coghlan into 2B, as while all of us would just do it, they don't seem to want to so it's a way of bringing him in slowly. Likewise, doesn't make Gaby or Carroll pure starters everywhere, and you have a veteran to shield them every so often. It's a nice balance of kids/veterans/splits. And if someone wants to take off with performance, so be it and they can become a starter. Competition is healthy.

And then in June if this isn't working, you have two lefties - Morrison and Petersen - past the arbitration threshold to help out 1B and LF, i.e. the two lamest positions above. And if they don't work out, there is the trade deadline end of July if we are a serious contender because the SP has grown up.

That lineup is above average in the NL. Yea, if we had $60 million bucks for NJ and Uggla it would be well above average. But I'm not going to harp on it. Because it's still coming down to the SP growing up and consistently eating 6+ innings.

[Swifty]

I think Vlad could play the field. He didn't because they have 4 good to great defensive OF's ahead of him (Abreu, Matthews, Hunter, Rivera) so if he can DH and you improve the D, why not do it?

If he's in the Abreu zone (low base, incentives that, if reached, probably put you in the playoffs) it's worth a shot as an NL team, but we're not spending money so who cares.

[Maybin]

Vlad's knees are shot from his days in MTL. He practically has zero speed (or in this case, range). I am curious if he could play 1st though.

[m26555]

Matt Lindstrom is "virtually certain" to be traded at the winter meetings, if not before, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Of the six teams that have expressed interest in the soon-to-be 30-year-old, three have stepped to the forefront in recent days.

Lindstrom, who is arbitration-eligible for the first time in his career, makes sense as a Marlins trade candidate. Earlier this week we heard that the righty was part of a trio of Florida relievers who could be dealt.

The Idaho native had a down year in 2009, as he was slowed down by an elbow injury. In his third big league season, he posted an ERA of 5.89 and threw just 47.1 innings.

MLBTR

[Ramp]

Dodgers asking about the Amazin' One

[Omar]

Boo.....no Amezaga = no Awesome = no Winning

[tjfla]

Dodgers asking about the Amazin' One

Actually 4 teams have

Dodgers,Angels,Mets,Rockies

However they all want to review his medical records to see about his knee
--------------------
Seven Teams In On Nick Johnson

Seven teams are in on injury-prone on-base machine Nick Johnson, tweets ESPN's Jayson Stark: the Mariners, Giants, Mets, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, Orioles, and Yankees. Stark says Johnson is high on Seattle's first base shopping list. It's been said that Johnson, 31, is seeking a two-year deal. Check out our discussion post on him here.

MLBTR

Lucky we didn't offer him abrbitration he might have resigned since there is not alot of interest

[emkayseven]

ugh coghlan to second will never happen

INDIANAPOLIS -- Whether it's Emilio Bonifacio or Chris Coghlan, the next second baseman for the Marlins won't stack up to Dan Uggla in terms of home run pop. But the Marlins will be better off defensively with either Coghlan or Bonifacio -- more so with Bonifacio -- if and when the Marlins trade Uggla, as is widely anticipated.

And, because of that, some feel Bonifacio rates the edge over Coghlan to take over at second. Uggla's future with the Marlins remained in limbo as baseball's winter meetings opened Monday, and his fate might not be settled this week. The San Francisco Giants and Boston Red Sox are two of the teams that have expressed interest in the slugging infielder.

Once Uggla's situation is resolved, the Marlins can focus on picking his successor. Bonifacio and Coghlan have extensive backgrounds playing second base, but neither spent much time at the position last season.

The Marlins made Bonifacio their Opening Day third baseman but gave up on that experiment in late May, primarily because of his shortcomings at the plate. Coghlan was thrown into left field when he was called up from the minors and remained there the rest of the season.

Jim Bowden, the former Washington Nationals general manager who traded Bonifacio to the Marlins last November, said there is no question Bonifacio would be a major upgrade over Uggla from a defensive standpoint. And Bowden said that, given an opportunity to play every day, Bonifacio could emerge as a decent hitter. (mk7's side note: why the FLYING FUCK would we care what a shitty former GM thinks?)

RANGE ADVANTAGE

``If they trade Uggla and [Bonifacio] becomes the second baseman, his range advantage will be significant,'' Bowden said. ``The question is, is he going to hit? Is he going to hit enough to be an everyday player? I think that if you give him 500 at-bats for two or three years, you're going to get a guy who all of a sudden figures it out.''

Bowden likened Bonifacio to a potential Michael Bourn in the making. Bourn, a speedy outfielder with the Houston Astros, had a breakout year in 2009 after struggling to get on base in previous seasons.

One American League scout, who saw Bonifacio and Coghlan play in the minors, said he thinks the Marlins would be better off sticking Bonifacio at second and leaving Coghlan in left.

``Their thinking could be, `We can put Bonifacio in a better spot and we already know Coghlan can keep his head above water in left field,''' said the scout, who asked to remain anonymous.

The scout said Bonifacio is vastly superior to Uggla defensively, while Coghlan is only marginally better than Uggla in the field.

The scout said that on the typical 20-to-80 scale, ``Uggla overall is about a 35 to 40 defensively, which is well below average. For me, Coghlan would be more of a 45 -- closer to average. Bonifacio would be closer to a 55. I've seen Bonifacio play second base, and I know he can play there.''

DODGING A VOID

Having Bonifacio take over at second would also alleviate one other position question for the Marlins if that's the direction the team goes. By moving Coghlan to second and putting Bonifacio on the bench in a super-utility role, the Marlins would have to find a left fielder as they await the emergence of developing prospect Michael Stanton.

Despite the constant roster turnover, the Marlins have had just two full-time second baseman over the past 11 seasons: Uggla and Luis Castillo.

• Reliever Matt Lindstrom, more than any Marlins player, is generating the most trade interest from other clubs. One source said at least 10 teams have contacted the Marlins about the hard-throwing right-hander. The Texas Rangers and Tampa Bay Rays reportedly have shown interest.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/1370951.html

[PitchingWinsGames]

Im a fan of the phrasing "could be a decent hitter"

[Party]

We should do the opposite of what Jim Bowden says in all cases.

[emkayseven]

ultimately it's going to come down to the last bolded part, where we don't have the resources to get a LF if we move coghlan, and they aren't comfortable with the guys we have, so they go and leave coghlan in left and start boner at 2b

[lou]

He said he will get it after 2-3 years of 500 PA?

So I mean, we have 1,000 more PA to go until he becomes a .750 OPSing hitter?

Don't you kind of hope at this point EB break his leg, which forces Coghlan to 2B, and then just keep him there?