2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[lou]

But Maddawg wasn't talking about this year, he was talking about the last 2. The team will be better this year, but a lot of that has to do with it being hard for us to be worse than last year. If Marlins fans in general are paying attention this year they'll see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm skeptical that it'll even register with the casual fan. I'm convinced after watching this team since it began pretty much, that to get this fanbase's attention the only thing that works is a playoff race. Now, I'm optimistic that an extended run with years of playoff contention could eventually grow a fanbase and stabilize attendance at respectable levels, but that situation has never happened in our almost 30-year history to prove my hypothesis correct.

I agree with that. A nice 5-7 year run, where they have guys on the team for 8+ years so there is a connection to them and not just shuffled out, would be nice. And then be like the Heat thereafter - trade for Butlers, draft smart, and all of a sudden there is a magical year to reward the fan base's trust in them.

This keeps going back to, they need another move on the team this year to really stamp home that trust. They have to start somewhere and as stated, they need to jump into the 70 wins first. The opportunistic 3+ year deal with Ozuna/Castellanos/Puig type (I suppose only Puig is left), or a Myers dump for prospects. I really feel that, plus an Anderson buyout, would be a nice 1-2 punch to head into the season and they should get a lot of credit for that, plus Villar, Dickerson, Aguilar, Kintzler, Joyce, Cervelli, etc.

I know many are annoyed at the constant patter I post about this, but Myers makes so much sense. He can play CF for the first half of the year, you can ship out Rojas across all of baseball, and you move Villar to SS. Myers then becomes a play everywhere 450+ PA guy once Monte is up, and he starts against all lefties and half the righties. He's a perfect guy for Lewin, Sanchez, and Bleday if they are all up by next year. Take the prospects from San Diego and eat $40 million, stacked more heavily in 2021 than 20 and 22 for payroll purposes. It would inspire a lot of confidence and industry credit, and that'll hopefully start trickling into the casual fan reading the Herald.

[Lee Stone]

Myers makes so much sense.

On paper, yes. The concern is for the prospects coming back. It would be hard to come up with a couple prospects that the Marlins love and the Padres would be willing to part with.

[rmc523]

But it's not really about winning an extra 12-15 games this year. It's the fact that you have to start somewhere. If the plan is to be actually competitive in 2021, then you need your MLB team to start winning more games now. You don't typically see teams go from 60 wins to 90 wins, but it isn't as big of a leap to go from 72 wins to 90 wins. This team needs to show it is trending in the right direction for a variety of reasons. I don't think anyone is suggesting that fans will flock to the stadium to watch this team win 70 games, but it does show progress and that matters. You can only talk about "building" so long...it's time to start showing some results. That is what this year needs to be about.

As Nick pointed out, he wasn't talking about this year, he was talking about the previous two years. He thinks people would've flocked to the stadium if we won 7-8 more games each year. I definitely agree this year they absolutely need to show improvement, preferably over 2018 (better than 63-98, certainly better than 2019's 57-105). If they don't, it definitely won't look good.

But Maddawg wasn't talking about this year, he was talking about the last 2. The team will be better this year, but a lot of that has to do with it being hard for us to be worse than last year. If Marlins fans in general are paying attention this year they'll see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm skeptical that it'll even register with the casual fan. I'm convinced after watching this team since it began pretty much, that to get this fanbase's attention the only thing that works is a playoff race. Now, I'm optimistic that an extended run with years of playoff contention could eventually grow a fanbase and stabilize attendance at respectable levels, but that situation has never happened in our almost 30-year history to prove my hypothesis correct.

I agree an extended run of contention over years would help grow a bigger consistent fanbase. The fanbase has never had a chance to support a winner long term - the '97 team was dismantled immediately.

93 - 3.064M
94 - 1.937
95 - 1.700
96 - 1.746
97 - 2.364
98 - 1.730
99 - 1.389
00 - 1.218
01 - 1.261
02 - 0.813
03 - 1.303
04 - 1.723
05 - 1.852
06 - 1.164

(after which we settled into a 1.3-1.7 range of inflated Loria numbers, with the 2012 outlier of 2.2M with the new park).

Attendance stayed higher for two years after the 03 WS until the team was dismantled.

Just one opinion, but I think a running, exciting, risk-taking team is what can draw fans in the short term. Excitement! That's what is sorely missing - esp under Mattingly management. The station to station boredom of the current Marlin product is hard to take. Adding a flashy player like Villar will help. He runs even when he shouldn't. Who doesn't love watching Berti? I'd cover the field with guys like those. Step #1 right now (and I never thought I'd think this, let alone say it) would be to drop another $8M on Puig to play RF. If you don't, install Harold Ramirez in RF and move Coop to 1st. Ramirez is at least fun to watch. Note: Had the Marlins not signed Cervelli or Aguilar, the savings would have paid half of Puig's cost

I agree to an extent.....the team has had no offense, so that leads to a boring game. But as with maddawg, let's not pretend people are going to flock to the park because they steal a base or two. And I like the guy, but I'm sorry, they're not coming to see Berti.

[lou]

Myers makes so much sense.

On paper, yes. The concern is for the prospects coming back. It would be hard to come up with a couple prospects that the Marlins love and the Padres would be willing to part with.

You gotta swing for the fences with prospects for low-spending teams. It's why Jazz-Gallen you do every damn day - and that's even if the Marlins didn't have SP depth because you need to take your shots at developing some 4+ WAR monsters. Gallen likely will never be that. Jazz might be, even if it's a 25% chance. I'll take four of those guys and be happy when 1 works out (cough Sixto, Sanchez, Bleday).

I think it's Morejon/Weathers, O. Miller, and a 3rd prospect they have 40 man issues with next year with, for Rojas. They sent over $15-25 million depending on how good that 3rd prospect is.

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Attendance stayed higher for two years after the 03 WS until the team was dismantled.

Right. What do they say?

If you "BUILD" it they will come?

[rmc523]

You gotta swing for the fences with prospects for low-spending teams. It's why Jazz-Gallen you do every damn day - and that's even if the Marlins didn't have SP depth because you need to take your shots at developing some 4+ WAR monsters. Gallen likely will never be that. Jazz might be, even if it's a 25% chance. I'll take four of those guys and be happy when 1 works out (cough Sixto, Sanchez, Bleday).

I think it's Morejon/Weathers, O. Miller, and a 3rd prospect they have 40 man issues with next year with, for Rojas. They sent over $15-25 million depending on how good that 3rd prospect is.

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Right. What do they say?

If you "BUILD" it they will come?

That phrase is probably plastered on Jeter's office wall haha.

[Lee Stone]

And I like the guy, but I'm sorry, they're not coming to see Berti.

When Berti hits a routine grounder to short and flies down toward first as if his life depends on it, I want to stand up and sing God Bless America.

[Nick]

Myers makes so much sense.

On paper, yes. The concern is for the prospects coming back. It would be hard to come up with a couple prospects that the Marlins love and the Padres would be willing to part with.

Just for reference the Giants got the Angels latest 1st round pick to eat $12 million remaining on Zack Cozart's contract. Now Myers isn't nearly as useless as Cozart, but we're talking a lot more money here. $40-$50 million. The prospects have to make sense for sure, but there has got to be a deal here that makes sense for both sides. I'm unsure if this type of deal would affect the average fan at all, but it would send a clear message to me that hey we're not only going to build this thing through scouting and the draft, but we're also going to do what it takes financially to get this turned around.

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And I like the guy, but I'm sorry, they're not coming to see Berti.

When Berti hits a routine grounder to short and flies down toward first as if his life depends on it, I want to stand up and sing God Bless America.

Lee, can we get you to admit that you are not the average Marlins fan?

[gustavopim]

You gotta swing for the fences with prospects for low-spending teams. It's why Jazz-Gallen you do every damn day - and that's even if the Marlins didn't have SP depth because you need to take your shots at developing some 4+ WAR monsters. Gallen likely will never be that. Jazz might be, even if it's a 25% chance. I'll take four of those guys and be happy when 1 works out (cough Sixto, Sanchez, Bleday).

I think it's Morejon/Weathers, O. Miller, and a 3rd prospect they have 40 man issues with next year with, for Rojas. They sent over $15-25 million depending on how good that 3rd prospect is.

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Right. What do they say?

If you "BUILD" it they will come?

Lou, I have no idea why you keep hitting on the same key with the Myers thing. That's not going to happen and if there is one untouchable player in the Marlins roster is Rojas. He's our captain, good role model for younger guys, pretty much the "face of the franchise" at this moment even tho he's not even close to being our best player.

I get the attendance talks, but if feels like no one in this board went more than 3-4 games last year. I went to over 20 in 2017, 18, 19. Attendance was MUCH better in 19 than in 17. Loria had wildly inflated numbers.

In addition to that, even when Stanton was close to 60 homers no one would come. Let's not forget how he used to choke up on big moments.

[Nick]

Big Rojas fan. He is in no way untouchable or the "face of the franchise". lol

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Also, Stanton not once played on a Marlins team with a winning record. What big moments was he choking in?

[Lee Stone]

In a modern baseball world featuring SS like Lindor, Baez, Bogarts, Torres, Saeger, Semien, Story, Turner, Anderson, Tatis Jr, Bichette ... starting Miguel Rojas is one of the grimmest reminders of how much our roster sucks. His most notable achievement has been hitting into more double plays than anyone in baseball ... despite the fact that no team puts fewer runners on first base. All that aside, I'm glad he has fans. Note: I'm just glad that monkey mask is no longer the face of the franchise.

[gustavopim]

Big Rojas fan. He is in no way untouchable or the "face of the franchise". lol

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Also, Stanton not once played on a Marlins team with a winning record. What big moments was he choking in?

I'm not even saying I'm a Rojas fan or that he's good, but in the current state of the Marlins he is untouchable. We just signed him to a two year contract. No way in the world that we trade him on a salary dump.

Well, not hitting homer #60 with 3 games to go at home would be the easiest, but when most games were on the line we would never come up with big hits in 2016/2017.

[Nick]

I'm not even saying I'm a Rojas fan or that he's good, but in the current state of the Marlins he is untouchable. We just signed him to a two year contract. No way in the world that we trade him on a salary dump.

I actually do kind of agree with this, I think lou's thinking is we signed him before Villar was brought in so that changes things.

[rmc523]

In a modern baseball world featuring SS like Lindor, Baez, Bogarts, Torres, Saeger, Semien, Story, Turner, Anderson, Tatis Jr, Bichette ... starting Miguel Rojas is one of the grimmest reminders of how much our roster sucks. His most notable achievement has been hitting into more double plays than anyone in baseball ... despite the fact that no team puts fewer runners on first base. All that aside, I'm glad he has fans. Note: I'm just glad that monkey mask is no longer the face of the franchise.

What are you talking about?

[Erick]

So all the talk on Myers the past few months was because of CF? He can’t play CF.

[Nick]

At least for me all my talk of Myers has little to do with Myers himself. It's all about improving the minor league system.