2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Namaste]

13 WAR over the last 4 years is not merely above average to me. We’ll agree to disagree for the 719th time.

[Erick]

Again you're not being honest.....it wasn't just 2 games. We were his 3rd MLB franchise. Texas traded him and in less than a year Milwaukee saw Hill & said "bingo, there is our mark", and unloaded him.

It's not like there wasn't a record of him well before the Marlins took him.

If he was going to be a "star" why did not one, but 2 MLB franchises get rid of him ?

Brinson certainly looks like a bust now, but that logic doesn’t really make sense. Jeter Downs is a top prospect, but he keeps getting traded. Is he a bust?

[gustavopim]

The Marlin broadcast team! As an every night watcher, my current booth favorites would be Minnervini and Saco. Severino and Hollandsworth bore me and don't bother to become knowledgeable. Minnervini, as he has repeatedly demonstrated as a guest broadcaster, is by far the best versed on all things Marlin. I think Miss Saco would be fun as a play-by-play lady. Her elegant and correct pronunciation of Latin names is so vital for a Miami broadcast. I anticipate universal disagreement on this ... but they would have my vote.

On this one I agree with Lee. I really like Minnervini and Kelly is a lot better than Jessica. Hollandsworth is one of the worst analysts I ever heard. His "ho ho ho" annoys me.

[rmc523]

Jesus Aguilar won his arbitration hearing with us, and will make $2.575M

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Throw me on the Kelly > Jessica bandwagon.

[Lee Stone]

We're paying Aguilar for the first half of his 2018 season. Too bad we don't get it.

[Maddawg]

Brinson certainly looks like a bust now, but that logic doesn’t really make sense. Jeter Downs is a top prospect, but he keeps getting traded. Is he a bust?

I wasn't speaking about anyone but Brinson.....others you have to know their story. But in Brinson's case make another argument. Same thing is going to be attached to Jesus Sanchez & Jazz Chisholm.....not as much but if they bust too....I think it will be clear this FO is no better than most fans at building a franchise.

If they go belly up in the rebuild, they HAVE to sign free agents or risk building from the draft again. Fans are willing to be patient only for so long. And Marlins fans have been patient for a long time now. At the end of this season it will be 18 seasons since the last playoff game.

[Nick]

Fans are willing to be patient only for so long. And Marlins fans have been patient for a long time now. At the end of this season it will be 18 seasons since the last playoff game.

Do you really think you're saying anything anybody on here doesn't already know? You bring absolutely nothing to the table, you're just negative with absolutely no substance. Yes, fish16 has rose-colored glasses we give him shit for it, but at least he contributes something to the message board.

[lou]

I totally forgot that we are paying Stanton $3 million a year for the next 7 years.

I believe if he opts out that goes away. This was/is my only issue with the Stanton trade. Not sure why they needed to do that.

But, let's hope the big guy is healthy and goes to California.

[fish16]

Do you really think you're saying anything anybody on here doesn't already know? You bring absolutely nothing to the table, you're just negative with absolutely no substance. Yes, fish16 has rose-colored glasses we give him shit for it, but at least he contributes something to the message board.

Preach

[emkayseven]

Kelly Saco is great but Craig is absolutely awful at calling games. Not a big Severino fan but I'd take him over Craig any day. Hollandsworth is atrocious.

[lou]

If they go belly up in the rebuild, they HAVE to sign free agents or risk building from the draft again. Fans are willing to be patient only for so long. And Marlins fans have been patient for a long time now. At the end of this season it will be 18 seasons since the last playoff game.

While I agree with most you are a bit over the top with the negativity and just bitch to bitch (you can tone it down dude), I substantively disagree with this in that free agents HAVE to be part of the rebuild. It's not a backup plan.

Their payroll is going to be obnoxiously low in 1-2 years when Chen/others are officially off the books, and they have nothing on payroll besides probably Anderson, Alcantara, and maybe Alfaro and Ca. Smith. The rest of the team is going to be club controlled and cost literally $12 million for 18+ guys.

They need to plop 2 major signings on top of what they have, fill it out with 2-3 veteran luxury upgrades on short deals (i.e., Villar and Kitnzler type signings), and then, trade a few guys and turn them into "1" Yelich, Ozuna, or Realmuto of their own. That's the way out from this.

Now of course, they should have kept Yelich, and started this free agency ramp up this year, but that's another debate. They made the choice to wait another year, so we'll see what happens.

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If they go belly up in the rebuild, they HAVE to sign free agents or risk building from the draft again. Fans are willing to be patient only for so long. And Marlins fans have been patient for a long time now. At the end of this season it will be 18 seasons since the last playoff game.

While I agree with most you are a bit over the top with the negativity and just bitch to bitch (you can tone it down dude), I substantively disagree with this in that free agents HAVE to be part of the rebuild. It's not a backup plan.

Their payroll is going to be obnoxiously low in 1-2 years when Chen/others are officially off the books, and they have nothing on payroll besides probably Anderson, Alcantara, and maybe Alfaro and Ca. Smith. The rest of the team is going to be club controlled and cost literally $12 million for 18+ guys.

They need to plop 2 major signings on top of what they have, fill it out with 2-3 veteran luxury upgrades on short deals (i.e., Villar and Kitnzler type signings), and then, trade a few guys and turn them into "1" Yelich, Ozuna, or Realmuto of their own. That's the way out from this.

Now of course, they should have kept Yelich, and started this free agency ramp up this year, but that's another debate. They made the choice to wait another year, so we'll see what happens.

[Lee Stone]

What are you looking for as the spring training schedule kicks off on Saturday?

My focus is on pitching. The rest of the club features a bunch of mercenaries, a solid player in Anderson, a modestly talented catcher, a fill-in SS, and an auditioning second baseman.

With Zac Gallen gone on the Jazz Chisholm gamble, and Trevor Richards also traded away, Alcantara, Smith and Lopez are being ordained as the 1-3 starters. How can that be? Last we saw of Smith and Lopez, they were getting knocked around after suffering injury issues. Who knows what they'll bring to the mound in 2020? Alcantara has proven to be durable, but frankly, that's his best trait thus far. Can he continue to show growth this season? We can only hope. Yamamoto was up and down, brilliant and crappy. Baseball Reference projects 1.22, 1.23, and 1.24 WHIP for Yams, Pablo and Smith. 1.31 for Alcantara.

As I see it, the entire rotation battle should be viewed as a wide open affair. Neidert was himself in the AFL, showing complete command. Sharp was nearly as good, only allowing too many BB. Guzman has the same issue. If he reduces the free passes and finds a consistent release point for the changeup, he's as good as anybody. Has Sixto's time come? Talentwise, he probably tops the rotation right now. However, with the team going nowhere this season, he will likely vacation in Wichita with the Cow Pies or Windy Splurge or whatever. Same story for Edward Cabrera, who has become the top Marlin prospect in the eyes of some. Hernandez, Urena, Bradley, Castano? All possibilities to varying degrees ... depending on all kinds of things. I sense that some surprises will be forthcoming.

Interesting article from bleacherreport yesterday ... on homegrown talent. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-entering-2020

[Maddawg]

While I agree with most you are a bit over the top with the negativity and just bitch to bitch (you can tone it down dude), I substantively disagree with this in that free agents HAVE to be part of the rebuild. It's not a backup plan.

Their payroll is going to be obnoxiously low in 1-2 years when Chen/others are officially off the books, and they have nothing on payroll besides probably Anderson, Alcantara, and maybe Alfaro and Ca. Smith. The rest of the team is going to be club controlled and cost literally $12 million for 18+ guys.

They need to plop 2 major signings on top of what they have, fill it out with 2-3 veteran luxury upgrades on short deals (i.e., Villar and Kitnzler type signings), and then, trade a few guys and turn them into "1" Yelich, Ozuna, or Realmuto of their own. That's the way out from this.

Now of course, they should have kept Yelich, and started this free agency ramp up this year, but that's another debate. They made the choice to wait another year, so we'll see what happens.

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While I agree with most you are a bit over the top with the negativity and just bitch to bitch (you can tone it down dude), I substantively disagree with this in that free agents HAVE to be part of the rebuild. It's not a backup plan.

Their payroll is going to be obnoxiously low in 1-2 years when Chen/others are officially off the books, and they have nothing on payroll besides probably Anderson, Alcantara, and maybe Alfaro and Ca. Smith. The rest of the team is going to be club controlled and cost literally $12 million for 18+ guys.

They need to plop 2 major signings on top of what they have, fill it out with 2-3 veteran luxury upgrades on short deals (i.e., Villar and Kitnzler type signings), and then, trade a few guys and turn them into "1" Yelich, Ozuna, or Realmuto of their own. That's the way out from this.

Now of course, they should have kept Yelich, and started this free agency ramp up this year, but that's another debate. They made the choice to wait another year, so we'll see what happens.

They are going on the 3rd year of 20 games below .500 or more. The biggest problem I have is, it seems they have just let the MLB team flail in the wind....didn't care. Other rebuilds already have solid fanbases. This one has NEVER had that because the franchise was manipulated/micromanaged by previous owners so poorly it resulted in teams that didn't work and always lost more games than they won....that alienates locals....and there are waaaaay more alienated locals here than in most cities.

They chose the wrong path, in my opinion. The should have realized they needed to spend some money upfront to gain the confidence of the locals. They chose not to do that, and I believe it will hurt them in the long run.

People just don't want to hear the truth. I used to sugarcoat and tell friends they are too harsh on the Marlins, but that all changed in 2012, with the last Loria debacle....I feel these guys are falling into the same category so far.....Loria was brash & abrasive when questioned about his team....Jeter has shown his disdain for anyone questioning him, or the direction of the team. The result is the same....they come off very arrogant & it alienates potential customers.

Okay, for now, I've said my peace

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[Namaste]

Lee, with the arms we have on the farm, the arm(s) we should acquire in FA in 2021/2022, I would make the Gallen for Jazz trade everyday and twice on Sunday. Jazz’s ceiling is ten times as high as some of the 27 year olds you drool about.

[lou]

They are going on the 3rd year of 20 games below .500 or more. The biggest problem I have is, it seems they have just let the MLB team flail in the wind....didn't care. Other rebuilds already have solid fanbases. This one has NEVER had that because the franchise was manipulated/micromanaged by previous owners so poorly it resulted in teams that didn't work and always lost more games than they won....that alienates locals....and there are waaaaay more alienated locals here than in most cities.

They chose the wrong path, in my opinion. The should have realized they needed to spend some money upfront to gain the confidence of the locals. They chose not to do that, and I believe it will hurt them in the long run.

People just don't want to hear the truth. I used to sugarcoat and tell friends they are too harsh on the Marlins, but that all changed in 2012, with the last Loria debacle....I feel these guys are falling into the same category so far.....Loria was brash & abrasive when questioned about his team....Jeter has shown his disdain for anyone questioning him, or the direction of the team. The result is the same....they come off very arrogant & it alienates potential customers.

Okay, for now, I've said my peace

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Yea, I don't agree with you entirely - but next year and especially 2022 I will. Loria REALLY left nothing so I think a two year rebuild was warranted (they should have kept Yelich only), but I feel there should be another major player on the team this year as a show of good faith. i.e., Castellanos, Ozuna, Puig, or the controversial Myers salary dump. That plus the rest of the moves (Villar, Aguilar, Kintzler, Cervelli, Yimi, etc.) shows some commitment. An Anderson buyout on top of that even more so.

Baseball is hard. You have to be really smart with 4-5 years of moves to create a 3-4 year contending window. We're in year 3 of that 7-9 year timetable right now.

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Lee, with the arms we have on the farm, the arm(s) we should acquire in FA in 2021/2022, I would make the Gallen for Jazz trade everyday and twice on Sunday. Jazz’s ceiling is ten times as high as some of the 27 year olds you drool about.

Yes, both the moves were no brainers and you do them every time.