2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fish16]

Repeating this again for maddawg who needs to hear it- nothing nothing NOTHING brings fans out in any sport in south Florida other than a winning team. Not pandering to Latinos, not taking down the home run sculpture, nothing but winning. And when this team starts to win in the next 2 years and has a bright future that shows a consistent future contender fans will come out and support the team. And that bandwagon mentality down here is exactly why you build the team the right way like they have spent the last two years doing and don’t make moves based on fan reaction. I’ve said it numerous times, but teams who make moves based on fan reaction are often the teams that suck and are never consistent contenders. You develop a plan that works in your market, don’t waver from it, and eventually a contender and in turn consistent fan support will follow

[Namaste]

The silver lining is Fangraphs says the Marlins have a chance to make the playoffs (0.3%)

[rmc523]

Sidenote, I bought tickets to an Inter Miami game this morning.

[Namaste]

Sidenote, I bought tickets to an Inter Miami game this morning.

Which match?

[Maddawg]

Exactly this. He’s suggesting a half ass shitty tank rather than a full in balls to the wall tank that is the way any team should rebuild. He acts like he understands the fan base but can’t realize how ridiculous it sounds that he thinks fans would hve come out to watch a team win 75 games without a full fledged effort to rebuild. It’s beyond apparent he doesn’t actually understand the fan base in the slightest

Of course you would assume this.

The rebuild is what should have been done....all the trades that is the right thing to do. But the Marlins attendance problem is very different than an Astros franchise that has had some success through the years. And as such needed a different approach than that of the Astros, or the Cubs, or even Kansas City for that matter.

Jeter needed to not only rebuild the team but rebuild fan interest. And not planning on bridging the time with competent players has wasted the time they could have used to make permanent fans instead of "bandwaggoners" as you call them for later when they plan to contend. You could have culled them the last two years, but instead alienated many of them, maybe permanently.

They seem to have figured it out some, we think, but they still might not be here all year. The Joyce & Dickerson type of deals should have been done in year one not finally doing it in year 3. The optics were horrible the 1st year, and again if you didn't have enough money to do this right, then why did you buy the team ? Year 2 was even worse.

[Nick]

Of course you would assume this.

The rebuild is what should have been done....all the trades that is the right thing to do. But the Marlins attendance problem is very different than an Astros franchise that has had some success through the years. And as such needed a different approach than that of the Astros, or the Cubs, or even Kansas City for that matter.

Jeter needed to not only rebuild the team but rebuild fan interest. And not planning on bridging the time with competent players has wasted the time they could have used to make permanent fans instead of "bandwaggoners" as you call them for later when they plan to contend. You could have culled them the last two years, but instead alienated many of them, maybe permanently.

They seem to have figured it out some, we think, but they still might not be here all year. The Joyce & Dickerson type of deals should have been done in year one not finally doing it in year 3. The optics were horrible the 1st year, and again if you didn't have enough money to do this right, then why did you buy the team ? Year 2 was even worse.

Curtis Granderson, terrible signing, but Matt Joyce is a great one? Sorry, if I'm failing to see how Matt Joyce coming into 2020 is so much better than Granderson was coming into 2019. Again, you say we should've signed a Dickerson-type in years past, but provide no indication if a comparable player to Dickerson was available for the money we signed Dickerson to in 2018. (Spoiler Alert: there wasn't)

[rmc523]

Which match?

The Sunday, April 5th game at 3pm against Philadelphia Union.

Of course you would assume this.

The rebuild is what should have been done....all the trades that is the right thing to do. But the Marlins attendance problem is very different than an Astros franchise that has had some success through the years. And as such needed a different approach than that of the Astros, or the Cubs, or even Kansas City for that matter.

Jeter needed to not only rebuild the team but rebuild fan interest. And not planning on bridging the time with competent players has wasted the time they could have used to make permanent fans instead of "bandwaggoners" as you call them for later when they plan to contend. You could have culled them the last two years, but instead alienated many of them, maybe permanently.

They seem to have figured it out some, we think, but they still might not be here all year. The Joyce & Dickerson type of deals should have been done in year one not finally doing it in year 3. The optics were horrible the 1st year, and again if you didn't have enough money to do this right, then why did you buy the team ? Year 2 was even worse.

I think you're vastly overestimating the affect of a few "better" veteran guys on fan morale/fan viewing of the team.

They went 63-98 in '18 and 57-105 in '19. So let's say they go 70-92 in both years because of some better veterans. You really think THAT is going to convince people that this team is going to come out? To rebuild fan interest?

It's NOT.

Not only that. You'd wind up lower in the draft and have a lower draft pool. I don't like the overall tanking aspect of the game, but if you're going to do it, do it right, and go all the way. Don't put the team in some middle ground where you're stuck for further years.

[fish16]

The Sunday, April 5th game at 3pm against Philadelphia Union.



I think you're vastly overestimating the affect of a few "better" veteran guys on fan morale/fan viewing of the team.

They went 63-98 in '18 and 57-105 in '19. So let's say they go 70-92 in both years because of some better veterans. You really think THAT is going to convince people that this team is going to come out? To rebuild fan interest?

It's NOT.

Not only that. You'd wind up lower in the draft and have a lower draft pool. I don't like the overall tanking aspect of the game, but if you're going to do it, do it right, and go all the way. Don't put the team in some middle ground where you're stuck for further years.

This is correct. Any idea that fans would come flocking to the stadium much more than they have the last two years in order to see us win 70 games instead of 58 is so unbelievably stupid and indicative of someone who has no fucking clue about this fan base

[Lee Stone]

Obviously early to be watching college baseball results or thinking draft, but .... are you kidding me? 17 rbi and 4 homers in first four games for Nick Gonzales?

https://nmstatesports.com/cumestats.aspx?path=baseball&

Then again, it can never be too early to think of the draft for Marlin fans.

[fauowls44]

This is correct. Any idea that fans would come flocking to the stadium much more than they have the last two years in order to see us win 70 games instead of 58 is so unbelievably stupid and indicative of someone who has no fucking clue about this fan base

But it's not really about winning an extra 12-15 games this year. It's the fact that you have to start somewhere. If the plan is to be actually competitive in 2021, then you need your MLB team to start winning more games now. You don't typically see teams go from 60 wins to 90 wins, but it isn't as big of a leap to go from 72 wins to 90 wins. This team needs to show it is trending in the right direction for a variety of reasons. I don't think anyone is suggesting that fans will flock to the stadium to watch this team win 70 games, but it does show progress and that matters. You can only talk about "building" so long...it's time to start showing some results. That is what this year needs to be about.

[Nick]

But it's not really about winning an extra 12-15 games this year. It's the fact that you have to start somewhere. If the plan is to be actually competitive in 2021, then you need your MLB team to start winning more games now. You don't typically see teams go from 60 wins to 90 wins, but it isn't as big of a leap to go from 72 wins to 90 wins. This team needs to show it is trending in the right direction for a variety of reasons. I don't think anyone is suggesting that fans will flock to the stadium to watch this team win 70 games, but it does show progress and that matters. You can only talk about "building" so long...it's time to start showing some results. That is what this year needs to be about.

But Maddawg wasn't talking about this year, he was talking about the last 2. The team will be better this year, but a lot of that has to do with it being hard for us to be worse than last year. If Marlins fans in general are paying attention this year they'll see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm skeptical that it'll even register with the casual fan. I'm convinced after watching this team since it began pretty much, that to get this fanbase's attention the only thing that works is a playoff race. Now, I'm optimistic that an extended run with years of playoff contention could eventually grow a fanbase and stabilize attendance at respectable levels, but that situation has never happened in our almost 30-year history to prove my hypothesis correct.

[Lee Stone]

Just one opinion, but I think a running, exciting, risk-taking team is what can draw fans in the short term. Excitement! That's what is sorely missing - esp under Mattingly management. The station to station boredom of the current Marlin product is hard to take. Adding a flashy player like Villar will help. He runs even when he shouldn't. Who doesn't love watching Berti? I'd cover the field with guys like those. Step #1 right now (and I never thought I'd think this, let alone say it) would be to drop another $8M on Puig to play RF. If you don't, install Harold Ramirez in RF and move Coop to 1st. Ramirez is at least fun to watch. Note: Had the Marlins not signed Cervelli or Aguilar, the savings would have paid half of Puig's cost

[Namaste]

If this team is still winning less than 80 games in 2022 there will only be one person on the board that will be telling everyone that the FO is making the correct decisions to build a sustainable winner and we are all just impatient.

[Lee Stone]

If this team is still winning less than 80 games in 2022 there will only be one person on the board that will be telling everyone that the FO is making the correct decisions to build a sustainable winner and we are all just impatient.

And what difference would that make? We're here to share ideas, not insults, right? Agreement is both rare and irrelevant.

[Namaste]

Personally, I hope the Marlins are closer to 60 wins than 70 wins this year for the draft pick. But that all really needs to change in 2021. 2021 should absolutely not be a tank year.

- - - - - - - - - -

With that said, I think the Marlins will win 67 games this year in a really tough division.