2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Maddawg]

I’d argue the best deal they made was the ozuna deal. They turned a merely above average oitfielder into sandy alcantara and jazz. The Yankees trade was pretty obvious to the eye going to be a win for us because it was what teams will start doing to us in the next year or two and that is take advantage of 40 man roster crunches

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No on vilified you because you thought brinson was a bust, you were vilified and deservingly so because you quite literally did it within the first series he played against the cubs in e beginning of 2018. Literally two games. That doesn’t make you a visionary, that makes you so incredibly cynical in every aspect of this team that it turned out to be right eventually

Again you're not being honest.....it wasn't just 2 games. We were his 3rd MLB franchise. Texas traded him and in less than a year Milwaukee saw Hill & said "bingo, there is our mark", and unloaded him.

It's not like there wasn't a record of him well before the Marlins took him.

If he was going to be a "star" why did not one, but 2 MLB franchises get rid of him ?

[fish16]

Again you're not being honest.....it wasn't just 2 games. We were his 3rd MLB franchise. Texas traded him and in less than a year Milwaukee saw Hill & said "bingo, there is our mark", and unloaded him.

It's not like there wasn't a record of him well before the Marlins took him.

We were his 3rd franchise because the rangers had a chance to get a top 5 catcher in baseball for him and the brewers were able to get one of the best contracts in baseball. He was both of their top prospects. He had 47 major league at bats prior to that point and was traded because he was an incredibly valuable prospect. My point all along was never that I was supremely confident that he was going to be a star, it’s that your rampant cynicism makes any conversation with you about the marlins ridiculous and hyperbolic because you’re the single most jaded marlins fan I’ve ever heard and are letting experiences with people that have nothing to do with the organization anymore cloud your judgment on people who now do have a part of this team

[Maddawg]

We were his 3rd franchise because the rangers had a chance to get a top 5 catcher in baseball for him and the brewers were able to get one of the best contracts in baseball. He was both of their top prospects. He had 47 major league at bats prior to that point and was traded because he was an incredibly valuable prospect. My point all along was never that I was supremely confident that he was going to be a star, it’s that your rampant cynicism makes any conversation with you about the marlins ridiculous and hyperbolic because you’re the single most jaded marlins fan I’ve ever heard and are letting experiences with people that have nothing to do with the organization anymore cloud your judgment on people who now do have a part of this team

Blah, blah, blah, blah.....If they keep him on the roster & get rid of a player that goes elsewhere and is just freakin' average (don't have to set that bar very high) it will once again set this fan, and the few Marlins fans left to wonder about the competence of this front office & put more doubt on that "it was all Loria's fault" narrative they want to push....

[fish16]

Blah, blah, blah, blah.....If they keep him on the roster & get rid of a player that goes elsewhere and is just freakin' average (don't have to set that bar very high) it will once again set this fan, and the few Marlins fans left to wonder about the competence of this front office & put more doubt on that "it was all Loria's fault" narrative they want to push....

Every conversation just comes back to the fact that you can’t get over that loria is no longer here. Running your team to please fans that have proven time and time again that they will not come to any games in any sport down here when the team isn’t good is a great way to continue to produce an awful team. They are doing it exactly as they should even if some of it overlaps with how loria would run the team. They are building this the exact right way it needs to be built to be sustainable long term and to be able to compete annually. Building it to please your cynical ass immediately is the exact wrong way to do it, especially down here in this baseball market. The only way they will prove themselves to you is to actually succeed and build trust and confidence over time and they are in their way to doing so. There is nothing they could have done to this point other than spend foolishly given this markwt which would have had you on board by now

[Nick]

Just a flier here, but I'll predict Peyton Burdick starts in Jupiter this season and reaches Jacksonville by June/July. I further see him as a regular in the 2021 Marlin OF at some point. Simply a gut feeling.

I could see that happening, I think you know I've been a huge proponent of Burdick since we drafted him, but it's going to be a much different situation with the big league club at even the earliest he might be ready, than it is now. Sanchez and Diaz are already at AAA, they're going to have a chance to cement themselves at the big leagues by that time. Bleday will have an advantage since they'll be more likely to give the first shot to the 1st round pick. So he is really just going to have to put up eye popping numbers to get his shot, unlike almost every big-time prospect we have at AA and AAA right now in which the spots are basically just waiting for them. I wouldn't put it past Burdick to strong arm his way into a spot, you're right.

[Maddawg]

Every conversation just comes back to the fact that you can’t get over that loria is no longer here. Running your team to please fans that have proven time and time again that they will not come to any games in any sport down here when the team isn’t good is a great way to continue to produce an awful team. They are doing it exactly as they should even if some of it overlaps with how loria would run the team. They are building this the exact right way it needs to be built to be sustainable long term and to be able to compete annually. Building it to please your cynical ass is the exact wrong way to do it.

You can't make this shit up.....you really think I defend Loria

Time has run out on using the "it was Loria's fault" narrative. And many of their decisions have yet to pay off. It's time to start spending & winning to build the fanbase back. They have basically told the fans so far - we are not able to win yet because we are too poor to even put a respectable team on the field in our 3rd year, because we fucked up & overpaid for the team.

No one expects a contender but last year was a horror show, and not only a horror show, but one that could put you to sleep. 1 in 7 games was a shutout....and they expected people to be flocking to the stadium ? According to Project Wolverine they were supposed to be doing that.....and then Jeter comes out and says he doesn't understand why more fans don't show up....Loria's gone so everyone should just flock to the stadium.....geeesh dude you are so out of touch with the fanbase....you just may never get it. You're as bad as the DNC & other Neoliberals on the rise of Sen. Sanders popularity.

[fish16]

You can't make this shit up.....you really think I defend Loria

Time has run out on using the "it was Loria's fault" narrative. And many of their decisions have yet to pay off. It's time to start spending & winning to build the fanbase back. They have basically told the fans so far - we are not able to win yet because we are too poor to even put a respectable team on the field in our 3rd year, because we fucked up & overpaid for the team.

No one expects a contender but last year was a horror show, and not only a horror show, but one that could put you to sleep. 1 in 7 games was a shutout....and they expected people to be flocking to the stadium ? According to Project Wolverine they were supposed to be doing that.....and then Jeter comes out and says he doesn't understand why more fans don't show up....Loria's gone so everyone should just flock to the stadium.....geeesh dude you are so out of touch with the fanbase....you just may never get it. You're as bad as the DNC & other Neoliberals on the rise of Sen. Sanders popularity.

You continue to say I’m out of touch with the fan base when it couldn’t be more obvious you’re the one blatantly out of touch with the fan base other than you. Nothing brings fans out in south Florida other than winning. I’ve had season tickets for multiple years for every pro franchise down here over the course of the last 15 years. The reason I have the viewpoints about building this team and saying fuck caring about what the “fan base” thinks about every move and putting the greater good of the franchise and team as the priority is explicitly because I know about how the south Florida operates. If you don’t think people will be attending games the second this team becomes a legitimate contender because of past management distrust you’re a fool with the lack of understanding this fan base, not me

Also, not a single person has said the team has sucked because they are poor and overpaid. They have sucked because building an entire organizational infrastructure doesn’t happen overnight. You seem to have no fucking clue how this team should be run compared to how they were operating in every aspect under loria if you think that was something that could have been fixed with quality major league team by now. And the funniest part is they are well on their way to fixing it and you don’t even realize it yet

[Nick]

Can we get Maddawg and fish16 their own thread or something? It was so nice this offseason, not having to deal with this bullshit.

[Maddawg]

You continue to say I’m out of touch with the fan base when it couldn’t be more obvious you’re the one blatantly out of touch with the fan base other than you. Nothing brings fans out in south Florida other than winning. I’ve had season tickets for multiple years for every pro franchise down here over the course of the last 15 years. The reason I have the viewpoints about building this team and saying fuck caring about what the “fan base” thinks about every move and putting the greater good of the franchise and team as the priority is explicitly because I know about how the south Florida operates. If you don’t think people will be attending games the second this team becomes a legitimate contender because of past management distrust you’re a fool with the lack of understanding this fan base, not me

Also, not a single person has said the team has sucked because they are poor and overpaid. They have sucked because building an entire organizational infrastructure doesn’t happen overnight. You seem to have no fucking clue how this team should be run compared to how they were operating in every aspect under loria if you think that was something that could have been fixed with quality major league team by now. And the funniest part is they are well on their way to fixing it and you don’t even realize it yet

No it's you that doesn't get it, and once again we'll have to agree to disagree. The relationship between the Marlins & South Fla is so broken, I think it'll never be healed completely. A whole generation of young South Floridians look at the Marlins as a joke, and are probably lost forever as a fanbase. Look at the games...when we play the Mets, it's not just old farts that stick with their old team, it's a lot of kids that were born down here yet they laugh at the Marlins & root for their fathers team, the Mets....repeat that for the Braves, Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies etc....You've not only lost the kids that had no relationship to another franchise, you've also lost that 2d of kids that moved here.....not that you would get even half of them, but Marlins have a very very small % of them.

The Dolphins & Heat are different stories....Dolphins have been around since 1966 and are on their 3rd & 4th generation of fans, and they had a winning tradition for more than 25 years that bonded them to the fans in South Fla, same with the Heat. Panthers suffer even worse than the Marlins from fan apathy, and for good reason. That franchise is the only one comparable in fan frustration.....

[fish16]

We can agree to disagree then but you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think this bandwagon town won’t show out in full force the second this team contends. And I think you’re also applying your own feelings and passion about those feelings onto others. You do realize even heat games have looked significantly lower in attendance than announced even since lebron left and that was the most significant and exciting 4 year run any team has ever had down here. ITs just how fans operate down here

[Maddawg]

We can agree to disagree then but you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think this bandwagon town won’t show out in full force the second this team contends. And I think you’re also applying your own feelings and passion about those feelings onto others. You do realize even heat games have looked significantly lower in attendance than announced even since lebron left and that was the most significant and exciting 4 year run any team has ever had down here. ITs just how fans operate down here

You can call Miami a bandwaggon town, but what city isn't ? Maybe the Cubs, Cardinals & but the Dodgers have 23 million people within an hour 1/2 drive. The Yankees ? Mets ? Atlanta ? All have had very empty stadiums lately, even when NOT playing the Marlins...and I remember seeing lots of empty seats in Houston, Kansas City in the years before they had their runs

Again, do I need to remind you that the Marlins have only had 6 winning seasons....not playoff seasons, just years when they have won 82+ games. That means 21 years of LOSING, and in many of them so bad they are a laughing stock, so much so that the Marlins are the worst draw on the road. It's not just apathy from fans in South Fla, but everywhere else too.

[Nick]

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-res...ayroll/marlins

Was not aware of this page. Good breakdown of our payroll for 2020 and moving forward.

[Lee Stone]

The Marlin broadcast team! As an every night watcher, my current booth favorites would be Minnervini and Saco. Severino and Hollandsworth bore me and don't bother to become knowledgeable. Minnervini, as he has repeatedly demonstrated as a guest broadcaster, is by far the best versed on all things Marlin. I think Miss Saco would be fun as a play-by-play lady. Her elegant and correct pronunciation of Latin names is so vital for a Miami broadcast. I anticipate universal disagreement on this ... but they would have my vote.

[Namaste]

Virtually every outfielder in MLB being described as a merely above average outfielder is really starting to annoy the f out of me.

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Minnervini, as he has repeatedly demonstrated as a guest broadcaster, is by far the best versed on all things Marlin. I think Miss Saco would be fun. I anticipate universal disagreement on this .

Your anticipation skills are spot on sometimes. I think that is the case here as well.

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https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-res...ayroll/marlins

Was not aware of this page. Good breakdown of our payroll for 2020 and moving forward.

Good stuff.

I totally forgot that we are paying Stanton $3 million a year for the next 7 years.

[fish16]

Castellanos and ozuna are exactly that- merely above average, nothing special

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Castellanos and ozuna are exactly that- merely above average, nothing special

And not worthy of significant long term money for a small market team