2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Maddawg]

sherman has been a good owner thus far. The trades were necessary (except maybe yelich but that could have been a good deal if the return was executed better and the idea of trading him made somewhat sense given the position of the organization). It finally seems like we have an owner who understands how a team like us down here needs to be run in order to put itself into a position to be able to be a contender consistently. I hope he continues to point out just how idiotically Loria ran this team in order to show why the way they are doing this rebuild is absolutely the right move.

Look at that something we agree on 100%......someone check the temperature of hell....you know, climate change and all

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Things like them going to arbitration court with Aguilar over $200K doesn't make me optimistic about our future spending.

That is a worrisome sign....$200K is nothing to a MLB franchise.....did or has anyone had the balls to ask Jeter or Sherman to their face about it ?

[Lee Stone]

With activity on only one field after lunch yesterday, I watched minor leaguers bat off live pitching from non-invitees like MacKenzie Mills. Most hitters made little contact (inc Misner). Peyton Burdick was the lone standout, launching a couple homers.

Jamie Quirk was hanging out by himself in LF, waiting to shag balls that weren't coming. Since last year, he's been working for the Marlins as the catching coordinator. From behind the chain link fence, I asked what an old man (at 65, he's approaching my age) was doing shagging while all those players were sitting around home plate. He strolled out to the fence and we had a nice visit.

We talked about his career, which included an All Star selection and a WS ring as a KC Royal. After I learned that he had two sons who were able to take their baseball as far as college, I got to my still burning questions about Tyler Heineman and why the Marlins let him get away. His answer: "I have no idea. I absolutely loved him. We gave him one start and he homered against the Mets."

[Maddawg]

They traded the 2nd best player IN ALL OF MLB and they didn’t get a Top 20 prospect in return.

But keep defending the trade.

Also, with Villar slated to start in CF, leaving Brinson who the fuck knows where, the Yelich trade inches closer to a confirmed total disaster.

I feel so vindicated right now....I was villified because even I, a casual fan, could eyeball that Brinson was a BUST

[lou]

That is a worrisome sign....$200K is nothing to a MLB franchise.....did or has anyone had the balls to ask Jeter or Sherman to their face about it ?

This is a holdover policy w/ Hill. The Marlins (and other teams) don't negotiate if they don't come to terms before submitting. They feel it's in their interest to play hardball as if you negotiate with Aguilar, that may show a weakness when you have to deal with Anderson, Smith, or Alcantara in a year, etc.

I think this is dumb, but doesn't tick the needle anywhere to worrisome.

Also as mentioned, the $200k becomes larger deltas in future years. If he jacks 30, they will obviously keep him even with Lewin, so you've made him more expensive for keeping or trading.

There are a lot of things to criticize them about, but this isn't one of them.

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With activity on only one field after lunch yesterday, I watched minor leaguers bat off live pitching from non-invitees like MacKenzie Mills. Most hitters made little contact (inc Misner). Peyton Burdick was the lone standout, launching a couple homers.

Jamie Quirk was hanging out by himself in LF, waiting to shag balls that weren't coming. Since last year, he's been working for the Marlins as the catching coordinator. From behind the chain link fence, I asked what an old man (at 65, he's approaching my age) was doing shagging while all those players were sitting around home plate. He strolled out to the fence and we had a nice visit.

We talked about his career, which included an All Star selection and a WS ring as a KC Royal. After I learned that he had two sons who were able to take their baseball as far as college, I got to my still burning questions about Tyler Heineman and why the Marlins let him get away. His answer: "I have no idea. I absolutely loved him. We gave him one start and he homered against the Mets."

Fun info. You just can't help yourself with the later.

[Lee Stone]

Nope. I think what I think until proven wrong. And I think it is foolish to sign Aguilar, period. The team brass has spoken about getting "more athletic" and Aguilar is not that. At 275 pounds still, he doesn't even take himself seriously. According to Mish, Sixto Sanchez has really blown up fatwise too.

[lou]

Nope. I think what I think until proven wrong. And I think it is foolish to sign Aguilar, period. The team brass has spoken about getting "more athletic" and Aguilar is not that. At 275 pounds still, he doesn't even take himself seriously. According to Mish, Sixto Sanchez has really blown up fatwise too.

Aguilar is a year off a 3.1 WAR season where he had a .890 OPS. His BABIP dropped last year 37 points, walked more, struck out less. His hard hit rate did plummet to slightly below average from being very above average in 2018. Obviously this is why he was even available.

He's a solid gamble for what they are going to pay him. It's not like this is a 1/$8 flyer. If he's bad, he'll be released after the super 2 deadline when Lewin is deemed ready. No harm done.

[Lee Stone]

Aguilar is a year off a 3.1 WAR season where he had a .890 OPS. His BABIP dropped last year 37 points, walked more, struck out less. His hard hit rate did plummet to slightly below average from being very above average in 2018. Obviously this is why he was even available.

He's a solid gamble for what they are going to pay him. It's not like this is a 1/$8 flyer. If he's bad, he'll be released after the super 2 deadline when Lewin is deemed ready. No harm done.

He was cheap for the Brewers and Rays too. They knew him best, and didn't want him, so color me skeptical. As I watched Cooper drive away from the complex in his new Land Rover yesterday, I couldn't help but think he should be the everyday first baseman. He could be the Marlins best hitter this season if he stays on the field. Playing first base, where he's a better defender than Aguilar, would be a lot better for his health than playing a more defensively modest RF.

[tjfla]

Miami actually was hoping to get Vlad Jr or Bo from Toronto for Yelich or Ozuna at first. After trading Ozuna and Yelich/agent crying about wanting trade Toronto knew they had Miami so refused to include Vlad Jr and Bo was Yelich/Prado for Bo and mid level prospect. Miami wanted more and didnt want to send out more cash(people were already crying we were cheap)

The Milwaukee deal was better than BO and mid level prospect in the FO eyes because they were getting 4 ML guys instead of just 1.

Yelich has looked great but remember only 2 teams were actually willing to pay a high price for him-Milwaukee and Toronto

I know people hate hearing this but IF Miami could have traded Stanton to St Louis for Sandy and more like they wanted ALOT of these prospects would have been different

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Brightside is we wont have to deal with anymore of this in future. 90-100 million starting next year is the budget IF they wanna use it

This is why the Wil Myers crap is so frustrating. If u been following SD/Boston is talking Myers trade

Boston-Myers and 30 million and 2 prospects of Quantrill/Arias/Campusano or other Arms
SD- something

Miami needs to JUMP on this right now!!!

I would be all over

Miami-Myers and 30 Million,2 of Morejon/Weathers/Arias/Owen Miller/Campusano
SD-something and Pompey

FYI there has been NO talk of this since November!!! Miami is talking Milb FA right now and Urena with teams

[fauowls44]

Just curious...at what point can we stop discussing the Yelich trade? How many times can this be debated? It was a bad move. Yes, we still need to see what Diaz and Harrison become, but trading a future MVP is never good. It was also 2 years ago...It's time to move on already.

[tjfla]

He was cheap for the Brewers and Rays too. They knew him best, and didn't want him, so color me skeptical. As I watched Cooper drive away from the complex in his new Land Rover yesterday, I couldn't help but think he should be the everyday first baseman. He could be the Marlins best hitter this season if he stays on the field. Playing first base, where he's a better defender than Aguilar, would be a lot better for his health than playing a more defensively modest RF.

Not even sure Coop is the backup right now. Matt Kemp backup 1B/Corner OF seems to be picking up steam

1 thing to remember is Coop,Harold,Brinson,Berti all have options so we could be seeing them all shuttling up and down

[fauowls44]

Miami actually was hoping to get Vlad Jr or Bo from Toronto for Yelich or Ozuna at first. After trading Ozuna and Yelich/agent crying about wanting trade Toronto knew they had Miami so refused to include Vlad Jr and Bo was Yelich/Prado for Bo and mid level prospect. Miami wanted more and didnt want to send out more cash(people were already crying we were cheap)

The Milwaukee deal was better than BO and mid level prospect in the FO eyes because they were getting 4 ML guys instead of just 1.

Yelich has looked great but remember only 2 teams were actually willing to pay a high price for him-Milwaukee and Toronto

I know people hate hearing this but IF Miami could have traded Stanton to St Louis for Sandy and more like they wanted ALOT of these prospects would have been different

- - - - - - - - - -

Brightside is we wont have to deal with anymore of this in future. 90-100 million starting next year is the budget IF they wanna use it

This is why the Wil Myers crap is so frustrating. If u been following SD/Boston is talking Myers trade

Boston-Myers and 30 million and 2 prospects of Quantrill/Arias/Campusano or other Arms
SD- something

Miami needs to JUMP on this right now!!!

I would be all over

Miami-Myers and 30 Million,2 of Morejon/Weathers/Arias/Owen Miller/Campusano
SD-something and Pompey

FYI there has been NO talk of this since November!!! Miami is talking Milb FA right now and Urena with teams

Is it possible they just don't want Myers? I get the point of that trade is to get the prospects, but then you are still stuck with Myers on your roster after that. I'm not saying I'm opposed...just that it seems like SD has been trying to move him all winter and nobody has taken the bait yet. Perhaps they aren't offering the level of prospects everyone assumes that they are.

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Not even sure Coop is the backup right now. Matt Kemp backup 1B/Corner OF seems to be picking up steam

1 thing to remember is Coop,Harold,Brinson,Berti all have options so we could be seeing them all shuttling up and down

If Villar is playing CF, then it is probably a Cooper/Ramirez battle for the starting job in RF.

[tjfla]

Just curious...at what point can we stop discussing the Yelich trade? How many times can this be debated? It was a bad move. Yes, we still need to see what Diaz and Harrison become, but trading a future MVP is never good. It was also 2 years ago...It's time to move on already.

Yep it was but remember we got 4 ML for him

Diaz-Starting 2B
Monte-Starting CF
Brinson-4th OF for us or some ML team
Yamamoto-RP

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Is it possible they just don't want Myers? I get the point of that trade is to get the prospects, but then you are still stuck with Myers on your roster after that. I'm not saying I'm opposed...just that it seems like SD has been trying to move him all winter and nobody has taken the bait yet. Perhaps they aren't offering the level of prospects everyone assumes that they are.

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If Villar is playing CF, then it is probably a Cooper/Ramirez battle for the starting job in RF.

Very true like said he hasnt been mentioned since November. Its just still talked about because it makes tons of sense since we have payroll space and want to collect prospects

Looks like SD/Boston agreed on prospect names its the cash that everyone is paying

Actually RF is Matt Joyce

OF right now is

LF-Dickerson/Harold
CF-Villar(IF)/Sierra/Brinson/Berti(Ut)
RF-Joyce/Cooper(1B)/BA(3B)

[fauowls44]

Yep it was but remember we got 4 ML for him

Diaz-Starting 2B
Monte-Starting CF
Brinson-4th OF for us or some ML team
Yamamoto-RP

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Very true like said he hasnt been mentioned since November. Its just still talked about because it makes tons of sense since we have payroll space and want to collect prospects

Looks like SD/Boston agreed on prospect names its the cash that everyone is paying

Actually RF is Matt Joyce

OF right now is

LF-Dickerson/Harold
CF-Villar(IF)/Sierra/Brinson/Berti(Ut)
RF-Joyce/Cooper(1B)/BA(3B)

Joyce has only had 1 season over 300 at bats in the last 5 years. At most, I would guess that he will platoon with either Cooper or Ramirez out there.

As for Myers, it'll be interesting to see what prospects get dealt if he is moved. For the Marlins, I agree that it does make some sense...but they also have a ton of OFs as it is. Do you take on Myers just to add a couple of more prospects and be stuck with him for 3 years? I know you can just eat the rest of his salary, but then you are paying $40-$50 million to Chen and Meyers to not play for you. Does that impact your ability to sign other, more useful players next year? Unless you are getting a couple of elite prospects, it's not as much of a slam dunk as some people make it sound like.

[Maddawg]

If you had yelich going from 18 hrs and an .807 ops along with 16/18 sb’s in his last year here to 44 hr’s, a 1.100 ops, and 30 sb’s in 115 fewer play appearances 2 years later you’re just straight up full of shit.

No one is arguing that Yelich would have done that here. What they showed was they don't have very good instincts for the business they are in. So far they still haven't proved they know what they are doing.

On paper the farm is ranked in the top 10. But now the players have to prove that over the next 2 to 3 years. If that fails and we are still at 75-80 wins a season, then was it really worth it to be this shitty, and to have completely decimated what was left of a "desperate for a winner" fanbase?

Because they have to strike gold or spend BIG in free agency, or their chances of ever getting anyone in this town to believe they are anything more than a joke are slim & none. Even if they spend big, people here are so jaded on MLB, they won't go because they don't want to get lured into caring for players that will be traded for more "prospects" the next week.

Right now, many people I know & talk to don't care that Dickerson or Joyce were signed, because they believe that they will be gone by the end of July....even if that is the plan or not, the public...the fans, believe that. They have yet to change that perception. And the fans WILL NOT return until they are convinced that they are willing to spend to win. Because even if they were to, by a miracle, get off to a 35-20 start, and 1st or 2nd place in the division, fans are not going to return.....and if you think a month or two of winning is going to change that, you still don't have your thumb on the (weak) pulse of the South Florida baseball fan.

I'm waiting for the posts that will say "what is wrong with the fans in South Florida, they are winning why don't they go to the games?" Nothing wrong with the fans...they have been the most abused fans in baseball for almost 2 decades, and it's going to take time & a lot of seasons of sustained contending & possibly overspending in free agency to get them to trust the franchise again.

This weekend (Fri night, Sat night & Sunday afternoon) there will be a series between the Hurricanes & Gators that will likely draw over 12,000 and maybe close to 13,000 for college baseball on the University of Miami campus (about 5 miles from Marlins Park), and most Marlins weekend series won't draw more than 8 or 9,000 this year for MLB and at that is 2 years into the new regime, that promised the fans left of the Marlins, that they were here to win. That's pretty pathetic that people will turn out in a city of more than 3 million to pack a stadium & watch college ball rather than go to a nice air-conditioned stadium to watch a professional MLB team. That is not the fans fault, but the MLB teams fault.

They had a plan, but it has been flawed from the start. If they didn't realize (and it's apparent they didn't) they had a lot of bridge-building to do here to get fans back, and some of that should have been ready to spend a few bucks to get the fans re-energized from the disastrous Loria reign of cheapness. They have made this situation worse

The plans needed to be trade-off the assets to rebuild the farm, but also spend some money on free agents to rebuild the trust in the fans. They decided to go scorched-earth plan, and now it's going to be more expensive in free agency to get the fans back....in the long run, they will spend more money because free agents seem to cost a lot more money every year.

Also isn't there a possibility of labor trouble looming for 2021 ? What would that do to the plans to "go for it" in 2021 ?

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If you had yelich going from 18 hrs and an .807 ops along with 16/18 sb’s in his last year here to 44 hr’s, a 1.100 ops, and 30 sb’s in 115 fewer play appearances 2 years later you’re just straight up full of shit.

No one is arguing that Yelich would have done that here. What they showed was they don't have very good instincts for the business they are in. So far they still haven't proved they know what they are doing.

On paper the farm is ranked in the top 10. But now the players have to prove that over the next 2 to 3 years. If that fails and we are still at 75-80 wins a season, then was it really worth it to be this shitty, and to have completely decimated what was left of a "desperate for a winner" fanbase?

Because they have to strike gold or spend BIG in free agency, or their chances of ever getting anyone in this town to believe they are anything more than a joke are slim & none. Even if they spend big, people here are so jaded on MLB, they won't go because they don't want to get lured into caring for players that will be traded for more "prospects" the next week.

Right now, many people I know & talk to don't care that Dickerson or Joyce were signed, because they believe that they will be gone by the end of July....even if that is the plan or not, the public...the fans, believe that. They have yet to change that perception. And the fans WILL NOT return until they are convinced that they are willing to spend to win. Because even if they were to, by a miracle, get off to a 35-20 start, and 1st or 2nd place in the division, fans are not going to return.....and if you think a month or two of winning is going to change that, you still don't have your thumb on the (weak) pulse of the South Florida baseball fan.

I'm waiting for the posts that will say "what is wrong with the fans in South Florida, they are winning why don't they go to the games?" Nothing wrong with the fans...they have been the most abused fans in baseball for almost 2 decades, and it's going to take time & a lot of seasons of sustained contending & possibly overspending in free agency to get them to trust the franchise again.

This weekend (Fri night, Sat night & Sunday afternoon) there will be a series between the Hurricanes & Gators that will likely draw over 12,000 and maybe close to 13,000 for college baseball on the University of Miami campus (about 5 miles from Marlins Park), and most Marlins weekend series won't draw more than 8 or 9,000 this year for MLB and at that is 2 years into the new regime, that promised the fans left of the Marlins, that they were here to win. That's pretty pathetic that people will turn out in a city of more than 3 million to pack a stadium & watch college ball rather than go to a nice air-conditioned stadium to watch a professional MLB team. That is not the fans fault, but the MLB teams fault.

They had a plan, but it has been flawed from the start. If they didn't realize (and it's apparent they didn't) they had a lot of bridge-building to do here to get fans back, and some of that should have been ready to spend a few bucks to get the fans re-energized from the disastrous Loria reign of cheapness. They have made this situation worse

The plans needed to be trade-off the assets to rebuild the farm, but also spend some money on free agents to rebuild the trust in the fans. They decided to go scorched-earth plan, and now it's going to be more expensive in free agency to get the fans back....in the long run, they will spend more money because free agents seem to cost a lot more money every year.

Also isn't there a possibility of labor trouble looming for 2021 ? What would that do to the plans to "go for it" in 2021 ?

[Lee Stone]

Yelich trade. I'll readily admit that I LOVED it at the time. I was no Yelich fan really and thought Harrison would be great. Really liked Yamamoto's minor league performance relative to Marlin prospects at the time. Was lukewarm to Diaz. Already wrote off Brinson at the time of the trade, JUST LIKE the Brewers did. His cameo in MILW prior to the trade was awful in every way. Yelich turned out to be great. Good for him. I have very little faith in Harrison now.

Ozuna trade. Hated it at the time because I thought we needed Flaherty and Weaver instead of what we got. Gallen turned out to be great ... who knew? Alcantara looks like a solid contributor. Even Castano could provide quality innings at some point.

Stanton trade. Could have been fantastic if we merely said yes to the Pirates deadline offer of Marte, Cole and Taillon for Stanton, Ruggiano and Cishek ... before signing Stanton to a contract that killed his value. That would have rivaled the Pirates accepted misfire of Meadows, Glasnow and Baez for Chris Archer.

Myers trade with SD. Getting an exceptional prospect like C Campusano would be worth taking on half of Myers contract, but it would cost the Marlins a good prospect or two. Guys in the 11-20 range.

Matt Kemp picking up steam? Excuse me? He managed to produce a MINUS .9 WAR in only 60 at bats last season. That's damn near impossible.