2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Nick]

New thought: Why not start another pitching revolution?

Instead of starters going 5-6 innings and giving way to a string of relievers (often four or five of them), why not think of pitchers in pairs, with each going 4-5 innings in a given game? A new wave rotation might look like this: Smith/Yamamoto; Lopez/Brigham; Alcantara/Hernandez; Neidert/Cabrera; S Sanchez/Guzman. Your best pitchers are all in regular action, with regular rest, and pitching manageable innings. Add three closers to the staff: Kintzler, Vesia, and whoever. Most teams don't have the quality depth to do that, but I think the Marlins would. Thoughts?

The problem with this is the only having 3 extra pitchers not in your rotation. You wouldn't want any of those 10 pitchers pitching on not they're set day. Say one pitcher just doesn't have it and can only give you 1-2 inngs. Then you only have 3 pitchers to possibly fill in? Hell what do you do if there's extra innings? You're just screwed?

Maybe a 4-game rotation where you're sticking to a 4 inning limit, you have 5 extra relievers to work with, that might be a little more realistic. To me though the only reason to do this would be if you had a ton of starters and you were trying to find out who the guys are that you want to move forward with in a future rotation while limiting innings. (not too unlike our current situation, I'll give you that) I don't think it's something you utilize if you're trying to win games consistently.

[Lee Stone]

If you have a durable guy like Alcantara, you could plan on seven plus innings, which would allow a fourth pitcher to drop into the relief corps (like Brigham). The real point in trying something like this is that your best pitchers would be determining the outcome of a game, not Ryne Stanek or Adam Conley or Dudley Dooright or whoever else fills a traditional 7 or 8 guy pen.

[Nick]

If you have a durable guy like Alcantara, you could plan on seven plus innings, which would allow a fourth pitcher to drop into the relief corps (like Brigham). The real point in trying something like this is that your best pitchers would be determining the outcome of a game, not Ryne Stanek or Adam Conley or whoever else fills a traditional 7 or 8 guy pen.

Well what you're describing here is just converting starters to relievers, which will happen in time. Once Neidert, Cabrera and Sanchez are major league ready, the competition will really begin and the losers of these battles will be moved to the pen, where hopefully they'll be upgrades to what will currently be there.

[Lee Stone]

Not converting starters to relievers per se, but giving most of your staff a regular routine, planned rest. Most any pitcher prefers a starting role for that very reason. The Marlins unusual depth of quality starters is what would make this possible. The new three batter rule for relief pitchers is another factor.

[Nick]

Not converting starters to relievers per se, but giving most of your staff a regular routine, planned rest. Most any pitcher prefers a starting role for that very reason. The Marlins unusual depth of quality starters is what would make this possible.

Yeah, but your statement about planning for Alcantara to go 7+ innings (obviously this is not possible) goes against everything you originally suggested. Also, if you pretty much set in stone who is going to pitch basically the entire game, it makes it a lot easier for the other team to game plan for you. That's why you see so many failed starters make it in the big leagues as relievers because being a reliever is a lot easier, a good manager can put you in situations to succeed, hitters have less of a chance to scout you and you can amp up your velocity since you know your outing will be a short one. All these advantages are lost under your scenario.

[Lee Stone]

Looks like no Hunter Pence for me ... this from mlbtraderumors:


Pence rebounded in a big way after landing with the Rangers last winter. He posted a .297/.358/.552 batting line in 316 plate appearances. Statcast figures were rather positive, recording 84.7th percentile sprint speed, 91.4 mph average exist velocity, and a 10.1 degree mean launch angle that far exceeded his prior levels.

It’s a good fit on several levels for a Giants team that remains in transition. Pence would presumably function as a part-time player who’d appeal to fans, add some pop, and serve as a mentor to the organization’s younger players.

His numbers were much like those of Matt Joyce last season in Atlanta - a real rebound season for both of them.

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2020 ZIP numbers for Marlins just released by fangraphs. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2020-zip...miami-marlins/

Team is brutalized in projections (probably fairly). No hitter is given the least regard really. Lopez and C Smith are viewed as low 4 ERA guys, other starters higher. ZiPs sees Vesia as our best pitcher ... right now. Was disappointed at the low projections for Sixto and Edward. The computer shat on prospects Chisholm, Harrison and JSanchez as well. With respect to the ZiPS forecasts last year, they were equally disrespectful and for the most part very accurate. Anyway, read 'em and weep.

[Nick]

I'm excited about Sandy being the next Blue Moon Odom.

[Lee Stone]

I'm excited about Sandy being the next Blue Moon Odom.

I wish we had Vida Blue and Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman to go with him.

Short interview with Jonathan Villar on Mish's twitter today. Villar sees himself as SS and 2B. He seemed surprised at suggestion that he may be asked to play CF. Clearly, that hasn't been discussed with him at this point.

[Lee Stone]

Today, Craig Mish, on his podcast, mentioned that Jesus Aguilar is packing some serious weight. Always good to hear that a player takes his conditioning seriously ....

Further word on this today: Apparently Aguilar's winter conditioning program was trying to lift himself! He peaked at close to 300 lbs. Now he's down to svelte 275.

[Erick]

I wish we had Vida Blue and Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman to go with him.

Short interview with Jonathan Villar on Mish's twitter today. Villar sees himself as SS and 2B. He seemed surprised at suggestion that he may be asked to play CF. Clearly, that hasn't been discussed with him at this point.

He also said he’s willing to do whatever for the team, you forgot that part.

[Lee Stone]

He also said he’s willing to do whatever for the team, you forgot that part.

That's hardly the point. Villar will earn $8.2 million this year ... nearly as much as his total career earnings up to this point. Of course he'll play wherever the team wants him. They just haven't discussed it with him thus far. That surprised me in that one would think that sort of thing would be discussed prior to signing him.

[Nick]

That's hardly the point. Villar will earn $8.2 million this year ... nearly as much as his total career earnings up to this point. Of course he'll play wherever the team wants him. They just haven't discussed it with him thus far. That surprised me in that one would think that sort of thing would be discussed prior to signing him.

Well they didn't sign him, he was claimed off waivers, but yeah I'm surprised they haven't discussed it with him yet.

[Lee Stone]

Well, son of a gun, the ZiPS computer program agreed with me on Tyler Heineman. 1.1 projected WAR vs. .7 for Alfaro and .6 for Cervelli. More interesting yet, fellow Giant prospect (#2 overall ranked catcher) Joey Bart also is projected at 1.1 WAR. Obviously, there can be other factors in play - things we don't know about Heineman - but it just seemed really odd to let a guy like that get away when the system is so short on catchers.

[tjfla]

Villar's position will depend on if he will sign an extension or not. Until he does they will play him all around and hope the bat plays. Now IF they extend him they will be 100% be doing it with a set position.

Thing to remember is he is a FA next year so have lots of options with him. Can extend him/let him play the year/trade him at deadline

They would love to extend him but if July comes and talks havent gotten anywhere but he has hit 20+HR they could get some solid offers

[Lee Stone]

Hard to see 20 HR coming by trade deadline ... since Villar has hit that many only once in his career ... for a full season ... in homer friendly Baltimore. ZiPS projects Villar to hit 17 HR this season.

This on Jarlin Garcia as possible Atlanta target: https://www.sportstalkatl.com/braves...jarlin-garcia/