2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fish16]

True or False? Jon Berti was the most entertaining Marlin to watch last season.

Whether he was 21 or 41, he played with more hustle than anyone else. The fact that he worked until age 29 to fulfill his potential made him all the more impressive to me. I see the same story brewing with Eddy Alvarez. I predict he will be the biggest Marlins story in spring training. I'm proud to be the only person in the world to believe that.

jon berti is going to be 30 years old on opening day and put up a below league average OPS. It is likely that he starts the year in AAA given that we have no real room in the OF for him unless they view him as a backup IF.

It's not about fulfilling his potential, it's ignoring years and years worth of evidence that they arent good. Alvarez is also going to be 30 come opening day and he didnt just become this major league player after coming over to our organization. He is just an organizational filler playing against younger guys in a hitter's paradise league. Again, do you ever take inventory of how many of these guys you continuously hype up that inevitably turn out to fail.

[Lee Stone]

jon berti is going to be 30 years old on opening day and put up a below league average OPS. It is likely that he starts the year in AAA given that we have no real room in the OF for him unless they view him as a backup IF.

It's not about fulfilling his potential, it's ignoring years and years worth of evidence that they arent good. Alvarez is also going to be 30 come opening day and he didnt just become this major league player after coming over to our organization. He is just an organizational filler playing against younger guys in a hitter's paradise league. Again, do you ever take inventory of how many of these guys you continuously hype up that inevitably turn out to fail.

Below league average OPS? Berti had the highest OPS of all Marlins with significant playing time other than Brian Anderson and Garrett Cooper. It was .755. League average is .710.

The two guys I "hyped" prior to last season were former Marlin Austin Nola (age 30), who added catching to his repertoire, and JD Davis (age 26), who had just been acquired by the Mets from the Houston organization. Nola was promoted by the Mariners and put up a .796 OPS, which would have been second highest on the Marlins. JD Davis, who I predicted would be a better hitter than anyone on the Marlins, proved to be just that with a .895 OPS.

In both cases, you labeled my suggestions as ridiculous, outrageous, absurd, stupid ... you get the drift. As far as Heineman goes, we shall see. I'm sure he'll get some action with the Giants.

My entire point is that there is value to be found in good older players who are blossoming or are blocked by their particular teams. A perfect example is former Baby Cake Mark Canha. Despite great numbers for the Marlin AAA club in 2014, the team let him go because the OF was set with Ozuna, Yelich and Stanton. Canha, now age 30, had an OPS of .913 for Oakland last season.

[Nick]

Below league average OPS? Berti had the highest OPS of all Marlins with significant playing time other than Brian Anderson and Garrett Cooper. It was .755. League average is .710.

The two guys I "hyped" prior to last season were former Marlin Austin Nola (age 30), who added catching to his repertoire, and JD Davis (age 26), who had just been acquired by the Mets from the Houston organization. Nola was promoted by the Mariners and put up a .796 OPS, which would have been second highest on the Marlins. JD Davis, who I predicted would be a better hitter than anyone on the Marlins, proved to be just that with a .895 OPS.

In both cases, you labeled my suggestions as ridiculous, outrageous, absurd, stupid ... you get the drift. As far as Heineman goes, we shall see. I'm sure he'll get some action with the Giants.

My entire point is that there is value to be found in good older players who are blossoming or are blocked by their particular teams. A perfect example is former Baby Cake Mark Canha. Despite great numbers for the Marlin AAA club in 2014, the team let him go because the OF was set with Ozuna, Yelich and Stanton. Canha, now age 30, had an OPS of .913 for Oakland last season.

Canha was 25-years old when we got rid of him, a lot of folks on this board pointed that out as a mistake at the time. Even still, Canha had been a league average player at best up until last year. Canha is the same age as Eddy Alvarez right now. Austin Nola had a .592 OPS in his last 100 ABs last year, by Lee Stone's mode of evaluation he should be considered dead.

Jon Berti proved he can be a major league contributor last year, I personally think you'll find him on the benches of major league teams for quite some time, and he'll have a nice little career. No one is giving him a chance to start, though, he might get a little bit of a look in CF next year, and he's got to hope to seize that opportunity because it's the best he's going to get. A major league lineup full of John Berti's would be a terrible lineup. (I'm talking 2019 Miami Marlins bad)

The Berti's and Alvarez's of the world can find their way onto a major league roster, but the days where they would be starting, especially over young prospects, has passed.

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jon berti is going to be 30 years old on opening day and put up a below league average OPS. It is likely that he starts the year in AAA given that we have no real room in the OF for him unless they view him as a backup IF.

Also, I strongly disagree with this. I won't say Berti is a lock to make the opening day roster, but I think pretty damn close. My first choice for CF would be seeing if Villar can play out there, but if he can't, I'd go with a Sierra/Berti platoon out there until Harrison is ready. A guy with Berti's speed and ability to play 7 positions would be quite a weapon, especially if he can put up a similar above average OPS that he did last season.

[Namaste]

fish16 is the worst when he says guys will be below average in a thing that they were quite good at last year based on....



Nothing

Change your username to Fish00

You’re a zero, kid. A double zero.

[Lee Stone]

A major league lineup full of John Berti's would be a terrible lineup. (I'm talking 2019 Miami Marlins bad)

A Berti team with an overall .755 OPS would rank between 15th place Cleveland and 16th place Texas, and would have no appreciable payroll at all. The 2019 Marlins team OPS was a MLB low of .673.

The Bertis would also steal a zillion bases.

[Nick]

Again, a players last 200 ABs are not a representation of what they'll be for the rest of their career. Also, is Jon Berti pitching too in this scenario, because the pitcher has to hit in the national league.

[Lee Stone]

Again, a players last 200 ABs are not a representation of what they'll be for the rest of their career. Also, is Jon Berti pitching too in this scenario, because the pitcher has to hit in the national league.

I considered the NL pitcher factor. Given that Marlin pitchers batted an average of less than twice per game , the impact is negligible. Unmeasured by OPS is the baserunning factor, which is Berti's greatest strength of all.

[Nick]

2 ABs a game isn't negligible. Jon Berti had less than 2 ABs a game last year. I guess his impact was negligible.

[fish16]

fish16 is the worst when he says guys will be below average in a thing that they were quite good at last year based on....



Nothing

Change your username to Fish00

You’re a zero, kid. A double zero.

league average OPS was .758 last year. berti was .755. kiss my ass. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../MLB/bat.shtml

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Canha was 25-years old when we got rid of him, a lot of folks on this board pointed that out as a mistake at the time. Even still, Canha had been a league average player at best up until last year. Canha is the same age as Eddy Alvarez right now. Austin Nola had a .592 OPS in his last 100 ABs last year, by Lee Stone's mode of evaluation he should be considered dead.

Jon Berti proved he can be a major league contributor last year, I personally think you'll find him on the benches of major league teams for quite some time, and he'll have a nice little career. No one is giving him a chance to start, though, he might get a little bit of a look in CF next year, and he's got to hope to seize that opportunity because it's the best he's going to get. A major league lineup full of John Berti's would be a terrible lineup. (I'm talking 2019 Miami Marlins bad)

The Berti's and Alvarez's of the world can find their way onto a major league roster, but the days where they would be starting, especially over young prospects, has passed.

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Also, I strongly disagree with this. I won't say Berti is a lock to make the opening day roster, but I think pretty damn close. My first choice for CF would be seeing if Villar can play out there, but if he can't, I'd go with a Sierra/Berti platoon out there until Harrison is ready. A guy with Berti's speed and ability to play 7 positions would be quite a weapon, especially if he can put up a similar above average OPS that he did last season.

I dont think he will be on the opening day roster because of a numbers crunch if they view him as an OF. if they view him as the utility IF then he will make it.

C- Alfaro, Cervelli
1b- Cooper, Aguilar
2b- Diaz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson/Villar
OF- Anderson/Villa
OF-Dickerson
OF-

That's 9 guys right there. I think they will give Brinson one last shot at the start of the year, that's 10. Sierra same thing, that's 11. Then the last spot will come down to Berti or Ramirez. I would go with Ramirez because i think he has a higher upside and is younger and showed me more potential last year. I also think Villar's positional flexibility in the case of an injury hurts Berti because Villar can play all over the infield as well and do so more effectively. We shall see what the roster ends up being but i dont see berti making the major league roster outside of an injury, which probably isnt fair because he was much better than brinson last year, but I think they will end up platooning brinson and sierra in CF and giving them one more shot.

[Nick]

league average OPS was .758 last year. berti was .755. kiss my ass. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../MLB/bat.shtml

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I dont think he will be on the opening day roster because of a numbers crunch if they view him as an OF. if they view him as the utility IF then he will make it.

C- Alfaro, Cervelli
1b- Cooper, Aguilar
2b- Diaz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson/Villar
OF- Anderson/Villa
OF-Dickerson
OF-

That's 9 guys right there. I think they will give Brinson one last shot at the start of the year, that's 10. Sierra same thing, that's 11. Then the last spot will come down to Berti or Ramirez. I would go with Ramirez because i think he has a higher upside and is younger and showed me more potential last year. I also think Villar's positional flexibility in the case of an injury hurts Berti because Villar can play all over the infield as well and do so more effectively. We shall see what the roster ends up being but i dont see berti making the major league roster outside of an injury, which probably isnt fair because he was much better than brinson last year, but I think they will end up platooning brinson and sierra in CF and giving them one more shot.

You think we'll carry 14 pitchers? Is that what teams are planning on doing? Seems like too many unless you're doing the Rays opener type strategy.

Also, I think Brinson should be done period, but he certainly shouldn't be with the team if he's only playing ever 4 or 5 games. You honestly expect him to start hitting in that situation? Best we can hope for with Brinson is stick him in AAA, hope he hits 20-25 homers in the hitter-friendly PCL, and then trick a team into trading for him. lol

[Lee Stone]

2 ABs a game isn't negligible. Jon Berti had less than 2 ABs a game last year. I guess his impact was negligible.

??? hard to respond to that. Marlin starting pitchers averaged well under 40 plate appearances for the entire season. Berti had 287. I guess your comment made sense to you.

[fish16]

You think we'll carry 14 pitchers? Is that what teams are planning on doing? Seems like too many unless you're doing the Rays opener type strategy.

Also, I think Brinson should be done period, but he certainly shouldn't be with the team if he's only playing ever 4 or 5 games. You honestly expect him to start hitting in that situation. Best we can hope for with Brinson is stick him in AAA, hope he hits 20-25 homers in the hitter-friendly PCL, and then trick a team into trading for him. lol

I keep completely forgetting the new 26 man roster so he should make the team actually, I just dont think his role is going to be anything more than 1-2 starts per week.

As for brinson, i'd give him one more stretch to start the year. Come mid may if he still sucks then it's time to cut bait, but i'd give him one more stretch to show something. it's going to be a non contending year anyways so see if anything has changed. I like how he is doing things out of the limelight this offseason as opposed to having to post everything on social media the last two offseasons. He probably is just a AAAA player who can never put it together at the big league level but if it's between giving him another stretch and giving a 30 year old who isnt part of te future like Berti more AB's i'd go brinson all the way.

I also like Sierra's potential and i'd like to see him up for a sustained period of time to start the year. I've made this comparison numerous times but I think he is JArrod Dyson 2.0 in that he probably isnt going to ever hit enough to be a league average hitter but I think the entire package of speed and defense and contact ability is a guy who can be a 1.5-2 WAR player in the big leagues for a while. He needs to be much more efficient stealing bases to reach that ceiling though because his SB% for his speed is pretty abysmal.

[Nick]

??? hard to respond to that. Marlin starting pitchers averaged well under 40 plate appearances for the entire season. Berti had 287. I guess your comment made sense to you.

162 Games in a season x 2 ABs/Game = 324 AB

Jon Berti had 256 ABs last season.

[rmc523]

If Brinson does well in spring training again, I say give him a shot - his LAST shot. And, they need to put him in a place to succeed, not stuck in the 8th spot in front of the pitcher. If he still doesn't do well, dump him.

[Nick]

Sierra is out of options and Brinson is not, correct?