2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[lou]

Give me Grisham, Kim and Luis Campusano.

Would gladly add a player to Pablo/Rojas to get that done (they'd need something, maybe even just the competitive balance pick they can trade and a RP we don't care about, etc.)

[rmc523]

Give me Grisham, Kim and Luis Campusano.

Guys, we already have Kim. She's going to trade for herself? lol

[fish16]

I've wanted Campusano for a few years and think his bat is great as a catcher. My question is- can he stick at C. I saw padres fans saying he needs to move positions (whether its to DH or 1b). His value to me is as a C. If he becomes a 1b, he still has a nice bat, but the bat isnt as special there.

I'd honestly still probably do that for Grisham, Kim, and him for Pablo and Rojas. Grisham you just have to hope bounces back with the bat. He is a pure CF or at least can play there passably well, so if they believe in the bat and can get a guy like Kim and a shot at Campusano being a longterm C, that's about as good as you can do with Pablo and 2 years left. Rojas can go for all i care he was nice for a rebuild but kim is a big upgrade there.I'd hope he develops a slight bit more power, but that's fine. If we do that, i'd sign cueto, trade Rogers (need to keep luzardo IMO over rogers), one of Meyer and Eder, and SS prospects like Salas/Lewis/Cappe for Reynolds.

One thing that i just thought of as it regards a closer- if we sign Cueto, Eury obviously would be on an innings limit- if he's ML ready but we want to limit his innings, do we bring him up and put him in the backend of the bullpen late in the year and get rid of the need to sign or trade for a closer for a year? In a super unrealistic world where he comes up and somehow sixto gets healthy, that's a pretty filthy backend of the bullpen for a year.

C- Campusano/Fortes
1b- Cooper
2b- Jazz
SS- Kim
3b- Segura
LF- Reynolds
CF- Grisham
RF- Garcia
DH- Soler

sp- Sandy, luzardo, Cabrera, Cueto, Garrett, (eury, sixto hopefully, fulton, eder/meyer, and eventually miller as depth)
Buillpen- Floro, Enright, Okert, Chargois, Scott, Bleier, fillers. That bullpen in an ideal world with Sixto and eury is decent enough with upside of really good in the backend with eury and sixto. If you add Bednar as a reliable closer, that becomes filthy pretty quickly.

All of a sudden, if you get very realistic bounceback hitting years for Garcia, Soler, and Grisham, Jazz stays healthy. That's a really good enough lineup with the rotation we would have.

Let's see what our Kim can pull off. If she can deal pablo for that and trade rogers and prospects for reynolds, you take that and sprint into the regular season and hope we get injury breaks from Jazz, Sixto, and the rest of the young rotation.

[fish16]

If Jazz can actually play SS (or 3B/CF and Segura can play SS for 2-3 years as he does have that option year), you can sign me up for this also assuming fair packages all around. Segura was good enough at SS in 18/19 until he was moved because they signed that menace Didi. Or, put Arraez at 3B for 100+ games or so.

I don't think this is a thing defensively, but offensively it would clearly work and we can do the same analysis above shifting some guys around, getting Michael Taylor for CF instead, with Reynolds/Bednar being the proverbial missing piece.

All roads lead to Pittsburgh and I can't imagine a scenario they would balk at Rogers/Luzardo, Meyer, Salas, Miller/Comp Pick, and throw-ins. A legitimate a high upside SP, effectively two top 100 prospects as they can sit on Meyer a year, and a recent 2nd rounder as a 4th player. Great deal for them. They are assholes if they don't do it, or give Reynolds a reason to take $100-120m.

completely agree. so much of all of our hope is pinned on Reynolds and ideally bednar for a package centered around the only ML guy going to them being Rogers. That opens up a huge wealth of possibilities to me. Rogers and whatever combo of prospects they want for those 2 with pablo still being left over to deal for another bat or 2 (or 3 in the padres case), and Sherman being willing to open up the wallet for a quality innings eater like Cueto, all of a sudden there is a viable path to a wild card spot.

[lou]

Give me Grisham, Kim and Luis Campusano.

Assuming Campusano is a DH/backup C (so a 140 game starter and 90+ at DH and 50+ at C), it probably crunches out to this:

Pablo, Rojas, Mack, Guy in Marlins top 12-18/Comp. Pick, Throw in non-40 man arm inside Marlins top 15-25 prospects (McCambly, etc.)

Grisham, Kim, Campusano



I think everyone does this trade assuming SD has a plan for CF which I cannot figure out, but maybe they have something worked out for Michael Taylor or someone else, etc. Tatis?


Marlins are running this at $90m

Fortes, Stallings, Campusano
Cooper
Jazz, Berti
Kim, Wendle
Segura
DLC
Grisham
Garcia
Soler

Clearly Fortes/Stallings is getting moved here (I would assume Fortes and take the offense/defense combo and aim for a 3rd defensive catcher in AAA if Stallings gets hurt), and you still do those other things - Wendle to Boston for prospects, motherload to Pitt for Reynolds/Bednar, sign Longoria/Cueto/Wacha.


This makes sense below, and you're just going to have to play Soler in the OF a bunch to get some PA for Campusano at DH. Worse things have happened even if not ideal. Goes back to why the hell did they sign him?

2023
Stallings, Campusano
Cooper
Jazz, Berti
Kim
Segura, Longoria
Reynolds, DLC/Sanchez/Bleday (Soler)
Grisham
Garcia (Soler)
Soler (Campusano)

2024
Stallings, Campusano
_______
Jazz, Berti/Edwards
Kim
Segura, Groshans/Berti
Reynolds, DLC/Sanchez/Bleday (Soler)
Grisham
Garcia (Soler)
Soler (Campusano)

2025
_______, Campusano
Berry
Jazz, Edwards/Lewis/Morisette/Nasim
______
Groshans, Cappe
Reynolds, DLC/Sanchez/Bleday
Grisham
Garcia
______ (Campusano)


Sets up getting some 1 year 1B type in 2024 to bridge to Berry, but the lineup is pretty high upside with Campusano/Jazz/Reynolds/Grisham and eventually Berry/Cappe where if the SP is super elite as they have Sandy/Cabrera/one of Rogers-Luzardo/Eury/Garret/Eder/Fulton/Sixto here, they have a chance, etc. Of course, the Jayson Werth signing is now screaming to be added here.



I like this and would manage with Campusano being a 100 game DH, 50 game catcher. He's not good defensively so they'd have to do this with him as the backup there, but thats honestly totally fine as no one should stop DH time if he's hitting. This especially works if Soler has a good year and opts out too.

[lou]

Eury obviously would be on an innings limit- if he's ML ready but we want to limit his innings, do we bring him up and put him in the backend of the bullpen

The answer to this is a resounding yes. They are going to cap Eury (and Eder and Sixto) at say 120-130 IP next year due to age/health.

You absolutely throw them all call it 16 starts for 5 IP average (once per week) to open the year, and call Eury/Eder up the last 12 weeks of the season (assuming performance dictates this decision) and have them throw call it 3-4 innings per week out of the bullpen. Is that 1 appearance? 2? I don't know, but if there are 80-120 MLB innings those 3 can throw, you do that and have them throw the entire year and don't shut them down in September.

Fulton is different as they don't need to put him on the 40 man post 2023 and can get him to 140+ IP in the minors. I'd just set him and forget him in AA/AAA and call him up post super-2 2024 for good.

[rmc523]

Longoria signed with the DBacks for 4M+1M in incentives. I guess we can’t match that lol.

[lou]

Longoria signed with the DBacks for 4M+1M in incentives. I guess we can’t match that lol.

I saw the press release, he apparently lives in Arizona so maybe not a real option. I'm not sure an extra $1-3m sways a guy with $140m in career earnings.

Dbacks offseason is the kind of thing the Marlins should be doing to mention.

-Cashed in excess positional depth for longterm need (Moreno)
-Smart veteran acquisitions to play splits (Gurriel, Longoria)
-Home run swings on buy-lows (K. Lewis)

They still need some SP, but I suspect they have another trade brewing as they still have many OF.


Segura could be nice, but the team makes no sense until they make 3-4 more moves to address problems. So here's to that happening eventually.

[Maddawg]

It's not related solely to this offseason. It's 2 fucking years of sitting on your ass and pissing on the fanbase and acting like it's raining. Every single free agent, which i dont blame on Ng, all we hear is "marlins made an offer" or "marlins were in on ___". Every single trade deadline it's "marlins were close on _____" or marlins were asking too much for ____. Enough. At a certain point, if every single fucking deal or trade offer is how close we are, we dont have the right people in charge. Not everything can be the perfect deal, and it's been abundantly clear for 2 fucking years that they have a ton of pitching that they need to deal off of to find some hitting. You mean to tell me they cant find a single impactful deal for 2 years? It's enough already. 1 deal, hey shit happens. 2 straight fucking years of being unable to find the deal to improve the lineup is just mismanagement and a GM who cant finish a deal.

You are not factoring in the fact that players just don't want to come here, and you have to not only beat the other teams offers, but add that "we don't want to go to that cheap ass franchise" factor as well. If someone else offers say 2 yrs for $30 million, the Marlins have to offer 2 yrs for $40 or 42 million to even get them to look at us. Baseball players also not only want good money, but they want to WIN...something this franchise has only done in 7 of its 30 seasons. We're not talking playoffs, we're talking just winning 82+ games. And you guys complain that the fans don't attend in the 10s of thousands each night. It's because spending $150 a night on a family of 4 and leaving disappointed 2 out of 3 nights just isn't a way a lot of budget-crunching families want to spend their money.

As long as there is no accountability for spending the luxury tax money or a spending floor, this franchise will continue to flounder, because this owner is NOT about winning, but maximizing profits. People could sellout loandepot.com Park every night, and Sherman is NEVER going to spend, unless forced to by MLB or the MLBPA. And trust me he is making $10's of millions in profits every year, but he will NEVER spend....stop believing in a pipe dream, I have and now I am with another team, and I come back here just for the amusement to see people who use to take out their frustrations with the ownership on me for telling the truth, pulling their hair out for an owner who couldn't give a shit just as long as his wallet is are being filled.

[lou]

[1] You are not factoring in the fact that players just don't want to come here, and you have to not only beat the other teams offers, but add that "we don't want to go to that cheap ass franchise" factor as well. If someone else offers say 2 yrs for $30 million, the Marlins have to offer 2 yrs for $40 or 42 million to even get them to look at us. Baseball players also not only want good money, but they want to WIN...something this franchise has only done in 7 of its 30 seasons. We're not talking playoffs, we're talking just winning 82+ games.

[2] And you guys complain that the fans don't attend in the 10s of thousands each night. It's because spending $150 a night on a family of 4 and leaving disappointed 2 out of 3 nights just isn't a way a lot of budget-crunching families want to spend their money.

[3] As long as there is no accountability for spending the luxury tax money or a spending floor, this franchise will continue to flounder, because this owner is NOT about winning, but maximizing profits. People could sellout loandepot.com Park every night, and Sherman is NEVER going to spend, unless forced to by MLB or the MLBPA.

[4] And trust me he is making $10's of millions in profits every year, but he will NEVER spend....stop believing in a pipe dream, I have and now I am with another team, and I come back here just for the amusement to see people who use to take out their frustrations with the ownership on me for telling the truth, pulling their hair out for an owner who couldn't give a shit just as long as his wallet is are being filled.

Broke this up into points.

1 - All of us are well aware of this Nostradamus and its universal for the advocation of the Jayson Werth deal (do you know what that even means? I'm not sure you know a lot about baseball). Further, it is not a black/white scenario. A guy like Drury would take the money as he has barely made any his career, where someone like Turner/Longoria will certainly ring chase/stay closer to home/etc. as a few extra million bucks means little once you'e made $100m. So none of what you said is a fair criticism. Segura certainly had other options as he's a good player, yet he signed with Miami as presumably, it was enough money more than the next offer and he valued that. Strike one.

2 - Who is complaining about this? As it is literally no one. Everyone believes Bruce needs to invest to make a better product. Strike two.

3 - If the Marlins sold out every game they'd have a much much different payroll. The problem with Bruce is he wants to put spending after success, when any real business is investing in your product and then profit. So you are partially right here so you avoid the 3 pitch whiff, but ultimately wrong as if they were selling out games, things would be much different

4 - I suggest going to marlinsbaseball.com and Twitter if you're interested in angertainment with the ignoramus and Internet dipshits, because frankly, this post makes no sense. Big picture, Bruce has to be cheap because he is likely the 2nd poorest owner in MLB and he doesn't have the funds to bankroll. So yes, he is a loser because he won't sell and is just going to pocket some money, but the age old adage of baseball will always be true - if you build it they will come. Strike three, you're out.

My recommendation is, to come with more firepower if you're going to be a troll because this is dumber than playing Bleday in CF.

[Todd]

Big picture, Bruce has to be cheap because he is likely the 2nd poorest owner in MLB and he doesn't have the funds to bankroll

MLB shouldn't have approved the sale to him, then.

[Nick]

MLB shouldn't have approved the sale to him, then.

No shit.

[lou]

Wow look at these nuggets - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/m...270392887.html

They offered Turner 1/$15m and he took the 2/$22+ from Boston. I don't blame him as he's made his money, but that would be A LOT for Turner IMO and an enormous overpay.

They offered Drury 2/$19 and he took $2m (and state income tax) to play in Los Angeles because of familiarity with coaching staff. I find that very surprising as this might be Drury's only payday, but hey, if he thinks the coaching makes him better it's worth it to him.

I'd rather have Segura than both of them TBH assuming the Marlins do get another 1B/3B type to replace one of the current IF.

Jazz *wants* to play shortstop(!!!). Genuinely, I like a Jazz-Rojas/Wendle-Segura, Bench - Berti, TBD 1B/3B Type/Groshans infield set up. Let them all play some SS and see what happens if you're not going to trade for Rosario or Peraza. Why not try for a year at this point? They have the bodies.

They are trying to pry Tristan Casas off Boston. While I like Casas, it's interesting to me they are looking for a cheap controllable 1B. So they think Berry is a DH doing this and would still have a black hole in CF. Why are DH being drafted 6th overall??? He better be amazing??? Maybe the infield sorts itself out if they do end up with a Segura-Jazz-Groshans, Bench - Edwards, TBD infield by next year. So to speak. So getting a longterm 1B is a missing piece here, and then all eyes on CF. Still.

They estimate a $101m payroll.... but current payroll is give/take $90m. So I'm not sure if this is a typo or if they have some inside information they have approximately another $11m (give or take $1-2m) to spend. It should be $110-120m, but at least it is something. If they ditch Pablo, one of Wendle/Rojas, Cooper (as they want Casas?), and say one of Scott/Bleier, that would take that $90m down another $17m to $73m. So there would be room for Reynolds ($7.5), Cueto ($8? 10?), another arm (absorbing Brubaker/Wacha $3+m), and maybe a bench veteran bat ($5m+) to round out the team.


So maybe they'd do this:

Rogers/Cabrera, Cooper, Wendle/Rojas, Scott/Bleier ----- > Casas and prospects

Still do Rogers/Cabrera, Meyer, Salas, Miller/Comp Pick, Burdick, something else still for Reynolds/Bednar

Sign Cueto and Wacha outright


This is probably $100m

Fortes, Stallings
Casas
Jazz, Berti
Rojas/Wendle
Segura, Groshans
DLC, Sanchez
Reynolds
Garcia
Soler

Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cueto, Garrett
Bednar, Floro, Chargois, Enright, Wacha(6th SP)
Bleier/Scott, Okert, Castano(7th SP/longman)

Still have Eury, Eder, Fulton, Sixton, Bleday, Edwards.... and Berry, Cappe, I. Lewis, Mack, etc. Plus likely something else

[Erick]

Pretty sure it’d never happen in the big leagues, but Casas has played 3B in the past so he has some versatility lol. Played it almost all senior year of high school when I announced his games at American Heritage.

It would be cool to add his bat. We probably should’ve just drafted him in 2018…

[Namaste]

Pretty sure it’d never happen in the big leagues, but Casas has played 3B in the past so he has some versatility lol. Played it almost all senior year of high school when I announced his games at American Heritage.

It would be cool to add his bat. We probably should’ve just drafted him in 2018…

Erick, that’s awesome that you announced games at American Heritage!

and Lou I agree 100% that I’d rather have Segura over Justin Turner and Drury.