2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

I’d much rather have Maddon than a first time manager. Of course we could get lucky with an outside-the-box first time manager as well but we could also end up with a Batting Average and RBI’s guy, too.

i tend to agree. I just find him to be a bit of smartest guy in the room attitude at times but he is a good manager with a track record of success and he has a history of getting the best out of players and like i said, having a team that performs more than the sum of its parts. If we're going to succeed we need to take advantage of platoon situations and the retread managers dont have that and the first time managers you never know what you're getting.

[fish16]

I guess it's fine to want to be the Rays, but it's foolhardy to expect to do it, and make it your business model. That would be like someone who's 5-3 saying they're going to be in the NBA because Muggsy Bougues did it. The Rays are the exception to the rule. No other small market franchise has had that kind of sustained success. You have to essentially be perfect in adding talent through the draft and IFA, and develop those guys, and they're just too much of a crapshoot to expect to be able to do that. There's also no reason to believe anyone in the front office or the instructional staff is capable of that, at least from the hitting side.

I dont necessarily disagree, but without Bruce opening up the wallet do we have another choice?

Side note, Correa opted out of his deal with the twins so if we ever were to sign a big name guy it wouldnt get more obvious than him. That would be a move that could actually move the needle that doesnt involve trading from within. Not holding my breath though.

[fish16]

Sucks as a marlins fan but love to see Stanton hitting a big hr today in the playoffs even if they lost. He deserves some big moments after wasting so much of his prime here. Can’t help but root for the guy

[Namaste]

I really enjoyed watching Acuna strike out on 3 pitches (twice) and be the worst in RF yesterday. Golf season in ATL already.

[sports24/7]

I dont necessarily disagree, but without Bruce opening up the wallet do we have another choice?

Side note, Correa opted out of his deal with the twins so if we ever were to sign a big name guy it wouldnt get more obvious than him. That would be a move that could actually move the needle that doesnt involve trading from within. Not holding my breath though.

I get the sentiment, but I just feel like if he's unwilling to spend a little more, then he shouldn't own a team. You could get a guy like Correa or Turner, and still be well in the bottom 3rd in spending. So if you're going to plan to win with mostly players from within, and augment that with a nice FA here and there, that's fine. But you just can't rely only on developing your own guys. It's just way too much of a crap shoot.

[sports24/7]

Sucks as a marlins fan but love to see Stanton hitting a big hr today in the playoffs even if they lost. He deserves some big moments after wasting so much of his prime here. Can’t help but root for the guy

I still root for him. I don't hold anything against him. He worked the system. I blame the Marlins for not calling his bluff.

[Nick]

I still root for him. I don't hold anything against him. He worked the system. I blame the Marlins for not calling his bluff.

We talked about this ad nauseum years ago, but yeah after what Loria did in 2012 with all Reyes, Buehrle and company. Stanton would've been completely stupid not to demand a No-Trade Clause. I have no issue with him using it.

[fish16]

I still root for him. I don't hold anything against him. He worked the system. I blame the Marlins for not calling his bluff.

they shouldnt have called his bluff, he's a great player but injury prone and if they were going full rebuild moving him was the right call and getting that potential albatross contract for the last 5-6 years or so of the deal was the right move. Poor execution of his trade, Yelich's, and JT's, but at least for stantons deal moving him was the right call. Trading JT was the only one i could really say didnt make sense. He was only asking 5-6 years 100-120 million if i recall correctly and for the best catcher in baseball and an athletic freak at the C position they should have paid him.

Yelich they also probably should have kept but i get the thinking that he was gonna be an issue given that he didnt want to be here anymore and his value due to his contract could have been incredible value for a rebuilding team to quickly restock the farm. they just chose the wrong guys clearly.

[sports24/7]

they shouldnt have called his bluff, he's a great player but injury prone and if they were going full rebuild moving him was the right call and getting that potential albatross contract for the last 5-6 years or so of the deal was the right move. Poor execution of his trade, Yelich's, and JT's, but at least for stantons deal moving him was the right call. Trading JT was the only one i could really say didnt make sense. He was only asking 5-6 years 100-120 million if i recall correctly and for the best catcher in baseball and an athletic freak at the C position they should have paid him.

Yelich they also probably should have kept but i get the thinking that he was gonna be an issue given that he didnt want to be here anymore and his value due to his contract could have been incredible value for a rebuilding team to quickly restock the farm. they just chose the wrong guys clearly.

I don't really understand what you're arguing here. They shouldn't have called his bluff, but letting him go where he wanted was poor execution of his trade? I understand trading him, and he didn't want to be there for a rebuild. When he told the Marlins he'd only go to NY, and not to the Cardinals or Giants they should have told him "cool, enjoy playing on a rebuilding team". Eventually he would have caved, and they would have gotten Sandy or Bryan Reynolds in a deal for him. But because the front office just didn't want to deal with any of that, they took the easy way out, and moved him to his preferred destination for almost nothing.

[Nick]

Well they also completely alienated him immediately by not even speaking to him until they were trying to deal him.

[fish16]

I don't really understand what you're arguing here. They shouldn't have called his bluff, but letting him go where he wanted was poor execution of his trade? I understand trading him, and he didn't want to be there for a rebuild. When he told the Marlins he'd only go to NY, and not to the Cardinals or Giants they should have told him "cool, enjoy playing on a rebuilding team". Eventually he would have caved, and they would have gotten Sandy or Bryan Reynolds in a deal for him. But because the front office just didn't want to deal with any of that, they took the easy way out, and moved him to his preferred destination for almost nothing.

getting his contract out of here was way bigger than anything they could have done. they got nothing for him so thats the only reason im calling it poor execution, but i never really expected them to get much for him anyways. I guess poor execution probably isnt the best phrase to use, probably should have just said they didnt get anything of value. The poor execution was more referring to Yelich and JT. They werent getting anything for Stanton due to his contract and the fact that he requested a trade and had a NTC and clearly didnt want to be here. he had all the leverage and he used it, as he had the right to do. Since he left he played in 158 games, then 18, 23, 140, and then 110 this year. He is constantly injured and hasnt had an OPS above 900 since he left here. He will be 33 next year and STILL has 5 more guaranteed years on that deal and a club option for the 6th year. He is due 32, 32, 32, 29, 25, and then 25 million for the last year. Getting rid of that salary was the most important thing.

[lou]

I don't really understand what you're arguing here. They shouldn't have called his bluff, but letting him go where he wanted was poor execution of his trade? I understand trading him, and he didn't want to be there for a rebuild. When he told the Marlins he'd only go to NY, and not to the Cardinals or Giants they should have told him "cool, enjoy playing on a rebuilding team". Eventually he would have caved, and they would have gotten Sandy or Bryan Reynolds in a deal for him. But because the front office just didn't want to deal with any of that, they took the easy way out, and moved him to his preferred destination for almost nothing.

I don't know about this one. His contract was so massive any downturn in production or injury then makes him on the books forever. I think they "won" the Stanton trade to this day. He's given them 8.6 WAR in 4+ seasons (counting Covid as a + here) and has 5 more on the books. For an annual in the mid/high $20m, that is pretty bad to be pacing as a 2+ WAR player. Brian Anderson has 8.8 WAR for the Marlins. I kid you not.

[lou]

getting his contract out of here was way bigger than anything they could have done. they got nothing for him so thats the only reason im calling it poor execution, but i never really expected them to get much for him anyways. I guess poor execution probably isnt the best phrase to use, probably should have just said they didnt get anything of value. The poor execution was more referring to Yelich and JT. They werent getting anything for Stanton due to his contract and the fact that he requested a trade and had a NTC and clearly didnt want to be here. he had all the leverage and he used it, as he had the right to do. Since he left he played in 158 games, then 18, 23, 140, and then 110 this year. He is constantly injured and hasnt had an OPS above 900 since he left here. He will be 33 next year and STILL has 5 more guaranteed years on that deal and a club option for the 6th year. He is due 32, 32, 32, 29, 25, and then 25 million for the last year. Getting rid of that salary was the most important thing.

Now Yelich is the one you call the bluff. Don't like a bad team? Suck it - you're here for 5. This is your team now. Be the leader. Then the Marlins should have done what any normal franchise would have done and gotten him help in 1-2 years after ripping it all apart and rebuilding a new core. Winning cures all.

I can't fault the Realmuto trade. Catchers age poorly and in hindsight, he was worth whatever the deal would have been, but I don't think that's a good bet. This one is just unfortunate Sixto has been hurt for 2+ seasons as he could have been really good.

No point relitigating any of this. It is what is is and thankfully they have positioned themselves this offseason with 22+ guys for the active roster that will cost them under $80m, with an assortment of trade pieces. All eyes on Bruce's budget and then Kim's creativity in leveraging what she has to work with.

[Lee Stone]

cf trade target for Marlins:Ceddanne Rafaela, OF/SS. Few Red Sox prospects in recent memory -- if any -- have made the type of jump Rafaela made in 2022. He started the season ranked No. 28 in Boston’s farm system as rated by MLB Pipeline. By midseason, he vaulted all the way up to No. 4. Now? Rafaela is No. 3.

The 5-8, wiry prospect has drawn comparisons to Mookie Betts due to his size and athleticism. Look for Rafaela to play his way up to Triple-A Worcester in 2023, at which point he will be just a phone call away for the Red Sox. His defensive exploits in center field are already legendary. He is also a plus defender at short. Rafaela was a force at the plate, slashing .299/.342/.538 with 32 doubles, 10 triples, 21 homers, 86 RBIs and 28 stolen bases.

His value approximates that of Braxton Garrett and is about half that of Pablo Lopez. Something could be worked out involving one of those two. A brilliant CF defender is key to making the most out of a strong starting staff for the Marlins. His minimum wage for several years is also attractive. For me, Nunez at SS, Jazz at second and Rafaela in CF would be an enticing defensive core for a speed dominant club.

[Namaste]

Yeah for me literally the only massively shitty thing about Stanton’s departure is that (as everyone here knows) Loria NEVER had any intention of paying the vast majority of Stanton’s contract out of his own pocket. It was all a sham.