2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

im seeing someone quoting an athletic article thats behind a paywall saying that the marlins are working on deals including pablo and rojas to the red sox. makes sense. I just doubt the sox trade casas for that. not sure what their plan is. I could see that being a verdugo + trade. He hasnt played a ton of CF outside of 2021, but he has a good bat and is coming off a down year. I wonder if Pablo and Rojas for Verdugo and Raffaela makes sense for both sides. I have no idea what the Sox plan is though. but id like verdugo a lot, and it would make more sense to me than trading casas would. He has 2 years left before free agency as well so it's a pure swap of Pablo's 2 years for Verdugo's 2 years. then you still have rogers/eder/meyer to work with in a reynolds trade.

C- Fortes
1b- Cooper
2b- Jazz
SS- Wendle
3b- Segura
LF/CF- Verdugo/Reynolds
RF- Garcia
Dh- Soler

That's 3 big upgrades over last year's lineup plus the hope that Garcia and Soler bounceback. Adding verdugo and Segura is adding a lot of contact and good OBP to the lineup that sorely needed it. Average is kind of a stat of the past but it is valuable in some ways. We were horrific last year at making contact and just getting base hits in key situations. It's especially needed when we dont have the type of power bats that can impact games with one swing of the bat consistently.

[lou]

If we can sign Cueto, trade Cooper and Pablo for Casas, and then rogers and prospects for Reynolds, it's really not a bad offseason other than the lack of adding a closer once again.

C- Fortes
1b- Casas
2b- Jazz
SS- Rojas/Wendle pure platoon
3b- Segura
LF- DLC/Sanchez/Bleday
CF- Reynolds
RF- Garcia
DH- Soler

Sp- Sandy, Luzardo, Cabrera, Cueto, Garrett with Eury, Eder/Meyer leftover, and Fulton still in the long term pipeline. We could use one more veteran OF that can hit ideally, but that's a marked improvement from last years lineup. And if they can hang in it until the deadline you can trade for an upgrade in LF for a prospect or 2 if DLC/Sanchez/Bleday struggle. Plus i think Garcia especially is going to have a good bounceback year. He's been working out with Jazz and looks actually in shape as opposed to last year when he showed up fat, plus his track record indicates good years after down years.

I don't think the Red Sox want to move Casas, nor would want Pablo if they do. They aren't very good so they need years of control (Cabrera) if they are going to move him.

Still no backup 1B, but a 1B/OF type would make sense above assuming Berti is on that bench. Is this where we say Brian Anderson makes sense to play 1B/OF? As he's likely a top 3 bat FA right now.

[lou]

Baltimore might be a good spot for Pablo. Something like this could work:

Pablo, Garrett, Rojas, Cooper, I. Lewis
x
Mullins, Mountcastle, Westburg

Baltimore gets two SP for right now, suitable IF platoon options for this year, and a flyer 2B prospect for 3 years of Mullins (Cowser coming), 4 years of Mountcastle (Mayo coming), and Westburg (a good 3B prospect but that's the price they pay).


And you *still* do Rogers/Luzardo, Meyer, Salas/Cappe/Watson, Comp Pick, and Burdick for Reynolds/Bednar

And sign Cueto and Wacha. And sign old friend Brian Anderson because why not.


Fortes, Stallings
Mountcastle (Anderson)
Jazz, Berti
Wendle (Segura)
Segura, Anderson
Mullins, DLC
Reynolds
Garcia
Soler

Sandy, Rogers/Luzardo, Cabrera, Cueto, Wacha
Bednar, Floro, Chargois, Enright
Scott, Bleier, Okert, Castano

Top prospects - Eury, Berry, Eder, two of Salas/Cappe/Watson, Westburg, Fulton, Groshans, Mack, Edwards, etc........ and Sixto, Bleday, Sanchez, and Jerar are in the minors with an assortment of RP.

So you are thin at SP until Eury/Eder show up (maybe Sixto? Castano surprise as 6th SP?), but the lineup now has 4 significant upgrades + you got Westburg and Edwards this offseason.


It becomes this longterm if you do the move Jazz to SS thing, or maybe Segura just plays there again:

Fortes, _____
Mountcastle, Berry (one is primary DH)
Segura, Edwards/Nasim
Jazz
Westburg, Groshans
Mullins, DLC/Sanchez/Bleday/Jerar/Mesa Jr.
Reynolds
Garcia/Sanchez/Bleday/Jerar/Mesa Jr.

Sandy, Rogers/Luzardo, Cabrera, Eury, Eder/Fulton
Bednar, Bender, Sixto, ___, Soriano/Villalobos/Nance
Okert, Eder/Fulton, Nardi/Simpson/Reynolds

.... with two of Salas/Cappe/Watson and Mack coming and god willingly one of those guys is a SS.



Cash it in Kim and bank on the one thing we all agree you guys are pretty good at - identifying pitching and extracting value out of nobodies like Thompson, Bender, and Pop, and fixing Garrett.

[sports24/7]

So top Red Sox prospect Ceddanne Rafaela tweeted a sun emoji, palm tree emoji, and eyes emoji, with Mish responding with an eyeglass emoji. In the era of cryptic social media posts, this could mean nothing, or could mean Miami might have a deal in place with Boston after all of the rumors.

[fish16]

So top Red Sox prospect Ceddanne Rafaela tweeted a sun emoji, palm tree emoji, and eyes emoji, with Mish responding with an eyeglass emoji. In the era of cryptic social media posts, this could mean nothing, or could mean Miami might have a deal in place with Boston after all of the rumors.

Pablo and Rojas for verdugo and him is my guess.

[fish16]

It cant just be rafaela right? It would have to have a major leaguer attached correct? Scouts are unbelievably high on his defense in center but the bat is somewhat of a question mark despite a great year last year. Super low OBP for his career plus a ton of k's and no walks. Defensively there is a floor because BA has his fielding at a 70 and his arm at a 60 in center, but his bat would need to develop more. plus i dont think he's ML ready opening day. His stats remind me a little of jackie bradley jr. Great defensively, decent speed, decent power, low OBP.

[Namaste]

So top Red Sox prospect Ceddanne Rafaela tweeted a sun emoji, palm tree emoji, and eyes emoji, with Mish responding with an eyeglass emoji. In the era of cryptic social media posts, this could mean nothing, or could mean Miami might have a deal in place with Boston after all of the rumors.

Where does he rank in Boston’s system? EDIT: looks like he’s their 3rd best prospect. 5’-8” 155 pounds. That’s a very small big leaguer

[fish16]

Where does he rank in Boston’s system? I checked Google for a few minutes and he doesn’t show up in their Top 20 (the lists I saw were March 2021).

BA has him at 3. I think mlb.com does as well. BA has him at 50 hitting and power, speed and arm 60, fielding 70. He wasnt a super big international signing but he broke out last year in A+ and AA. Still probably half a year away at least

This is what they have on his future: The Future: Even with modest offense, Rafaela's defense gives him a floor in the mold of outfielders such as Jose Siri, Harrison Bader or Jackie Bradley Jr. If he becomes more disciplined, he could be an above-average regular in center or super-utility option. He should finish 2023 in the big leagues.

[sports24/7]

It cant just be rafaela right? It would have to have a major leaguer attached correct? Scouts are unbelievably high on his defense in center but the bat is somewhat of a question mark despite a great year last year. Super low OBP for his career plus a ton of k's and no walks. Defensively there is a floor because BA has his fielding at a 70 and his arm at a 60 in center, but his bat would need to develop more. plus i dont think he's ML ready opening day.

You wouldn't think so, unless Miami thinks he can play CF next year, and they couldn't get the deal they wanted from Boston. That doesn't feel like enough of a return for any of Miami's pitchers, though, and is probably too good of a return for Rojas.

[Namaste]

Where does he rank in Boston’s system? EDIT: looks like he’s their 3rd best prospect. 5’-8” 155 pounds. That’s a very small big leaguer

Didn’t we already have a plus plus defensive CF’r who couldn’t get on base (Sweet Lew)?

[fish16]

You wouldn't think so, unless Miami thinks he can play CF next year, and they couldn't get the deal they wanted from Boston. That doesn't feel like enough of a return for any of Miami's pitchers, though, and is probably too good of a return for Rojas.

That's why im thinking it's gotta be Verdugo. it's essentially a swap of 2 years of Lopez for 2 years of Verdugo to balance out the roster, then you'd have to assume Rojas or Wendle in it as has been rumored for Rafaela. I'd think there might be a lower level prospect on our end going to make that make sense for them. I'm not really sure what Boston's plan is though. It feels like they should be rebuilding for a few years down the road but maybe they think they can compete this year and want to add a pitcher.

If they can get verdugo AND rafaela id be super happy about it, plus you have the reynolds option still available which would give us 3 ++ bats added to last years lineup, plus a healthy jazz, and hopefully bouncebacks from Soler and Garcia.

[sports24/7]

Where does he rank in Boston’s system? I checked Google for a few minutes and he doesn’t show up in their Top 20 (the lists I saw were March 2021).

According to MLB Pipeline, he's 3rd in their system, and 96th overall. Fangraphs has him 6th in their organization, and not in their top 100. BA has him 3rd, and 78th overall.

[sports24/7]

That's why im thinking it's gotta be Verdugo. it's essentially a swap of 2 years of Lopez for 2 years of Verdugo to balance out the roster, then you'd have to assume Rojas or Wendle in it as has been rumored for Rafaela. I'd think there might be a lower level prospect on our end going to make that make sense for them. I'm not really sure what Boston's plan is though. It feels like they should be rebuilding for a few years down the road but maybe they think they can compete this year and want to add a pitcher.

If they can get verdugo AND rafaela id be super happy about it, plus you have the reynolds option still available which would give us 3 ++ bats added to last years lineup, plus a healthy jazz, and hopefully bouncebacks from Soler and Garcia.

I'm still holding out hope for Casas, but your deal makes a lot of sense, and I'd be ok with that.

[lou]

Pablo and Rojas for verdugo and him is my guess.

Verdugo has a nice .812 OPS career RHP split. Not a good defender, but is fine in LF it seems and fits the never be striking out (career 15%) new mantra. Seems like an upgrade on Sanchez/Bleday for that roll. Hes going to cost $6.5-7m and then probably $9+m in 2024 before free agency. i.e., he is not that valuable as a projected 1.5+ WAR platoon bat. Maybe $15-20m in surplus value sort of thing. Rafaela is neat with his versatility and could solve CF post super-2 next year, but at best he's a FV50 guy. Valuable but not crazy.

Something else substantial needs to be coming back if it's Pablo and Rojas. Or Pablo is kept and the pivot is to something like Garrett/Meyer and Eder/Fulton sort of thing (+ Rojas).

I wouldn't move Pablo (or Luzardo or Cabrera or Rogers) unless Casas is coming back basically.

Pablo, Garrett, Rojas, and Cooper ($18m) for Casas, Verdugo, and Rafaela ($8m, so Marlins save $10m i.e. Cueto money)? That starts making a lot of sense all around. They can extend Pablo for 7/$90 and have Garrett for 6 years, with two stopgaps or value. Maybe even swap out Luzardo/Rogers/Carbera for Pablo there and just keep him instead. You have a little less saved money but it's minor.

They lose a 1B and CF prospect for two longterm SP, and swap Verdugo for some 1B/SS help now. They can go off and sign Profar to play 2B/LF to help them out there similar to the Marlins then signing Cueto.

That is something that makes sense, but sure buy low on Verdugo and Rafaela too without Casas.

[rmc523]

im seeing someone quoting an athletic article thats behind a paywall saying that the marlins are working on deals including pablo and rojas to the red sox. makes sense. I just doubt the sox trade casas for that. not sure what their plan is. I could see that being a verdugo + trade. He hasnt played a ton of CF outside of 2021, but he has a good bat and is coming off a down year. I wonder if Pablo and Rojas for Verdugo and Raffaela makes sense for both sides. I have no idea what the Sox plan is though. but id like verdugo a lot, and it would make more sense to me than trading casas would. He has 2 years left before free agency as well so it's a pure swap of Pablo's 2 years for Verdugo's 2 years. then you still have rogers/eder/meyer to work with in a reynolds trade.

C- Fortes
1b- Cooper
2b- Jazz
SS- Wendle
3b- Segura
LF/CF- Verdugo/Reynolds
RF- Garcia
Dh- Soler

That's 3 big upgrades over last year's lineup plus the hope that Garcia and Soler bounceback. Adding verdugo and Segura is adding a lot of contact and good OBP to the lineup that sorely needed it. Average is kind of a stat of the past but it is valuable in some ways. We were horrific last year at making contact and just getting base hits in key situations. It's especially needed when we dont have the type of power bats that can impact games with one swing of the bat consistently.

There's not a whole lot to that article aside from speculation of "what would it take?" from both sides for that to work.