2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

I'm tired of getting prospects.

We don't have a good history of trading for prospects.

That's completely fair, but to that i would raise a few points. I absolutely agree that they should not be getting prospects if they dont also get reynolds. they need surefire things, so if they dont get reynolds, you cant "waste" pablo for prospects. My point in getting those 2 was in the context of a move for reynolds using another pitcher we have after we deal pablo. The deal for those 2 guys wouldnt make sense without that.

The reason i would be ok with then moving Pablo for 2 guys like that is because of a few things. First, any deal for reynolds would need to sign him to an extension. Because of that, given our limited payroll, it would become super key to start finding impact young talent for very cheap to supplement the big deal for Reynolds, Sandy as he gets more expensive, and then jazz as he inevitably gets more expensive through arbitration or hopefully an extension. If you trade for reynolds and sign him to an extension, if you dont find quality impact talent for cheap for a few years, you're left with the situation we were in with Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, and JT where you have star level talent but a terrible bottom of the lineup.

So while maybe it's not the best move for this year, i think it would make sense in the totality of a plan where you also get reynolds and sign him to an extension. I think the biggest impact year for that kind of move would be 2024. All of a sudden, you have Reynolds, Sandy, Jazz, Segura, Garcia, etc., but then they also get supplemented with cheap impact talent like Luzardo, Cabrera, Eury, Busch, Vargas, hopefully bleday and Sanchez and then younger guys like Berry, Salas, watson, Cappe, Lewis, etc.

Also, while we have absolutely struck out on numerous prospects, most notably the MIlwaukee trade, as a small market team you can't just completely ignore those types of players as potential trade pieces. I think that's more of something that should cause you to fire scouts than to shy away from them entirely forever. As a small market team, 6 years of cheap impact talent is enormous. You can't just stay away from prospects. It's how you compete with the teams that spend $100 million more than you. It is the great equalizer in baseball with payroll disparities.

[rmc523]

We should be jumping in on Correa, then we only have to trade for Reynolds.

[fish16]

Supposedly we’re looking at profar as well. Not sure how serious that is but not sure id be into that. Not necessarily because of him, but because it would seem to indicate just a single trade of Pablo and no other big move for reynolds

[fish16]

I know Mish is trying to be more responsible than he was in years past and not reporting what he knows ahead of time, but it kind of completely ruins his value if his insight is always hindsight and based on things that were discussed and could have happened instead of things that are actively being discussed

[rmc523]

Supposedly we’re looking at profar as well. Not sure how serious that is but not sure id be into that. Not necessarily because of him, but because it would seem to indicate just a single trade of Pablo and no other big move for reynolds

No thanks.

[rmc523]

I know Mish is trying to be more responsible than he was in years past and not reporting what he knows ahead of time, but it kind of completely ruins his value if his insight is always hindsight and based on things that were discussed and could have happened instead of things that are actively being discussed

Yeah, he got burned, so he's hesitant to say much now, which I get, but it also makes it more boring.

[fish16]

No thanks.

Only thing that would make that make sense is the very high likelihood that Rojas or wendle get moved in a deal. That gives them a backup SS plus berti with Segura staying at 3b all year.
Also, a guy who covers the fish for 5 reasons sports says they are looking at making multiple moves dealing pitching for bats, not just 1. I have to imagine at least one of wendle and rojas are gone, and if they can get a young long term 1b in those deals, i could also easily see Cooper being in one of the deals too.

Profar fits the mold of what theyve been going after. Contact guys who walk a lot. He doesnt have a super high average but he gets on base decently and has some pop which is valuable if he's playing SS. I could see deals involving both Wendle AND Rojas and just sliding him in on a short term deal for 2 years at SS maybe.

[fish16]

pablo to the cardinals makes a ton of sense as well. Carlson and Burleson for Pablo and Rojas or wendle? Or maybe gorman and Burleson? only if you know a reynolds deal is going down does that make sense, but that can be 2 immediate starters added to the lineup, combined with reynolds you have 3, combined with segura you've overhauled the lineup, plus i think bouncebacks are very likely for Garcia and Soler. Gorman would be the pure power play and burleson would be the more complete bat. had just 67 k's in 432 ab's in AAA last year. Had just 101 k's the year before in 456 AB's. He's a corner outfielder though. If you get gorman, you could throw rojas or wendle in, throw the other one in another deal, play him at 3b, and play segura at SS. Or move cooper, keep 1 of Wendle or Rojas, and then play gorman at 1b.

C- Fortes
1b- Gorman
2b- Jazz
SS- Wendle
3b- Segura
LF- Burleson
CF- Reynolds
Rf- Garcia
DH- Soler

Then in an ideal world you have berry coming up and one of the SS prospects pans out. They take over for Wendle at SS, move Gorman to 3b, put berry at 1b, and you have some sort of long term plan on top of a much improved current lineup.

[Lee Stone]

Segura and Cueto don't move the needle at all really. A couple one-year guys who won't add appreciably to the win-loss record.

[fish16]

Segura and Cueto don't move the needle at all really. A couple one-year guys who won't add appreciably to the win-loss record.

theres clearly 2 big trades coming. They arent adding segura and cueto and just moving into spring training. Id venture to guess they arent anywhere close to having a finalized lineup heading into next year.

[lou]

theres clearly 2 big trades coming. They arent adding segura and cueto and just moving into spring training. Id venture to guess they arent anywhere close to having a finalized lineup heading into next year.

Correa 6/$200 MINNESOTA. Wow!

They need PITCHING LIKE CRAZY.

Lineup

Vazquez, Jeffers
Kiriloff, Wallnar
Polanco
Correa, Farmer
Miranda, ______
______, Larnach
Buxton
Gallo

Not listed - Max Kepler, Luis Arraez, Royce Lewis, and N. Gordon

Pick which three you want, Minnesota keeps the 4th, and send back Wendle and Scott/Bleier also to deflect some payroll and round out their bench/pen. Wendle is perfect for them with Farmer (a lefty killer) and Miranda can go to 1B to help.


Let's go

[rmc523]

Only thing that would make that make sense is the very high likelihood that Rojas or wendle get moved in a deal. That gives them a backup SS plus berti with Segura staying at 3b all year.
Also, a guy who covers the fish for 5 reasons sports says they are looking at making multiple moves dealing pitching for bats, not just 1. I have to imagine at least one of wendle and rojas are gone, and if they can get a young long term 1b in those deals, i could also easily see Cooper being in one of the deals too.

Profar fits the mold of what theyve been going after. Contact guys who walk a lot. He doesnt have a super high average but he gets on base decently and has some pop which is valuable if he's playing SS. I could see deals involving both Wendle AND Rojas and just sliding him in on a short term deal for 2 years at SS maybe.

That'd make sense in that scenario.

[rmc523]

Segura and Cueto don't move the needle at all really. A couple one-year guys who won't add appreciably to the win-loss record.

On their own, sure, I agree with you. There needs to be corresponding moves for those to matter. Otherwise, it's a waste.

[sports24/7]

Mish is generally useless for insider info, right?

I think he's actually about as good as it gets. He's not always right, but none of these guys are. I think he has the pulse of what's going on with this team pretty well overall. He's also almost literally the only person who gives any inside info on the Marlins.

[sports24/7]

Supposedly we’re looking at profar as well. Not sure how serious that is but not sure id be into that. Not necessarily because of him, but because it would seem to indicate just a single trade of Pablo and no other big move for reynolds

The rumor is they're looking at Profar as a super utility player. If Rojas or Wendle are getting shipped out in a trade, I think he'd be a solid move. He can play all over the place, has a little bit of pop, and is still young enough that you shouldn't expect regression.

Segura and Cueto don't move the needle at all really. A couple one-year guys who won't add appreciably to the win-loss record.

On their own, it's obviously not enough. In addition to a RP signing or trade, and two more decent bats added (or one really big bat), that's not a half-bad offseason when you consider the insane FA deals being given out, that Miami never had a chance to compete with. Those trades are paramount, but signing Cueto certainly seems to indicate at least one is coming.