2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[Erick]

I would like to think they’re in search for a left-handed bat as the backup plan at 1B. Hopefully someone who is versatile enough to play another position, I agree with Lou about that.

For what it’s worth, I feel like the team already had a Longoria type of guy and they DFA’d him. Is Brian Anderson much worse than Longoria at this point? I’m guessing they would have similar projections for next season, but we had no interest in keeping BA (who is younger and more versatile than Longoria, as well).

[lou]

What about a guy like Brandon Belt?

I’m not sure why Cooper is our primary option at 1B to begin with. I was hoping we would’ve traded him last year to the Dodgers when he was having an “All-Star” caliber season.

Cooper has a 1.5 WAR projection next year (Belt .9, Hosmer .5, Longoria 1.1), and will be cheaper than Belt or Longoria in free agency (I think anyways, Cooper will be at $4m).

I don't disagree they should have strived for a more longterm option (as Berry is probably Soler's replacement).

I'd be OK with them signing Belt and Longoria and trading Cooper (as they can't create Aguilar/Cooper/Soler again and I can't believe some are advocating for this), but Cooper/Longoria is the best combo here unless whatever comes back for Cooper is pretty OK (good reliever?).

[rmc523]

Who cares? No positional fit.

I'm fine with Longoria as the backup 3B/1B. But acting like a league minimum 1B isn't a fit as a backup 1B doesn't make sense....

[rmc523]

I would like to think they’re in search for a left-handed bat as the backup plan at 1B. Hopefully someone who is versatile enough to play another position, I agree with Lou about that.

For what it’s worth, I feel like the team already had a Longoria type of guy and they DFA’d him. Is Brian Anderson much worse than Longoria at this point? I’m guessing they would have similar projections for next season, but we had no interest in keeping BA (who is younger and more versatile than Longoria, as well).

Likely comes down to money, unfortunately. BA was projected to make $5.2M this year. I agree that I'd have kept him and allowed him to play around different places as needed.

[lou]

I would like to think they’re in search for a left-handed bat as the backup plan at 1B. Hopefully someone who is versatile enough to play another position, I agree with Lou about that.

For what it’s worth, I feel like the team already had a Longoria type of guy and they DFA’d him. Is Brian Anderson much worse than Longoria at this point? I’m guessing they would have similar projections for next season, but we had no interest in keeping BA (who is younger and more versatile than Longoria, as well).

Yes. It's a no brainer.

I've thought about that also, if Longoria signs elsewhere.... Anderson is the best FA fit and HE then becomes that 1B/3B guy. Yet another guy (1.4 WAR projection) who fucking smokes Hosmer. I suspect Anderson is injury related and there is a real problem there to have not guaranteed the $4.7-$5m or so arbitration tender he was going to get.

[fish16]

Who cares? No positional fit.

no positional fit..... until he is one when the guy you have locked in as the everyday 1b gets hurt yet again or the guy who the team doesnt even trust to play the outfield this year because of how bad his back is goes on the DL for half the year again. It's ok to have a backup plan and sign a guy that can be a bench bat with the ability to start if necessary. If Cooper and Soler were Cal RIpkin, sure, carry a 5th 2b/SS/3b, but again Cooper has missed over half the available games since he's been here and Soler has been placed on the IL 14 different times including his brief minor league career since he got signed by the Cubs out of Cuba, according to his milb.com page.

By year, soler has gone on the DL:

2013 in the minors- 1
2014- 2
2015- 2
2016- 1
2017- 1
2018- 1
2019-only year he's ever stayed healthy
2020- 2
2021- 1
Last year- 2 times

Neither of those guys should be without a very competent backup option.

[lou]

I'm fine with Longoria as the backup 3B/1B. But acting like a league minimum 1B isn't a fit as a backup 1B doesn't make sense....

Hosmer sucks - have you guys looked at this? I'm being serious here. He's terrible and barely above replacement level. Groshans or LeBlanc are literally better ideas. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/er...ts?position=1B

And that's as stated, ignoring he makes -0- positional sense because he can't cover anything else which is needed.

We just did this with Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. That didn't work and produced insane lineups. They need a versatile lineup. It's a 1B/3B type to act as backup 1B and 5th 2B/SS/3B player behind Jazz, Segura, one of Wendle/Rojas, and whoever the 4th IF is. This would isn't hard.

[fish16]

Likely comes down to money, unfortunately. BA was projected to make $5.2M this year. I agree that I'd have kept him and allowed him to play around different places as needed.

i think it's money and the shoulder. 2 straight year of sub .378 slugging percentage and last year it was .346. I think that's the biggest thing with him. He becomes a vastly less valuable player at 8 hr's and 16 2b's per year as opposed to 20 hr's and 33 2b's. He went from a gaby sanchez type guy in his prime to a slap hitter with a shoulder that doesnt allow him to stay healthy. If they are confident in the shoulder being healthy again, im all for bringing him back as the piece we are talking, but i suspect that's a big issue with him.

[lou]

no positional fit..... until he is one when the guy you have locked in as the everyday 1b gets hurt yet again or the guy who the team doesnt even trust to play the outfield this year because of how bad his back is goes on the DL for half the year again. It's ok to have a backup plan and sign a guy that can be a bench bat with the ability to start if necessary. If Cooper and Soler were Cal RIpkin, sure, carry a 5th 2b/SS/3b, but again Cooper has missed over half the available games since he's been here and Soler has been placed on the IL 14 different times including his brief minor league career since he got signed by the Cubs out of Cuba, according to his milb.com page.

By year, soler has gone on the DL:

2013 in the minors- 1
2014- 2
2015- 2
2016- 1
2017- 1
2018- 1
2019-only year he's ever stayed healthy
2020- 2
2021- 1
Last year- 2 times

Neither of those guys should be without a very competent backup option.

This player is someone like Longoria (or Justin Turner), it is not Hosmer. We just did this with Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. That didn't work and produced insane lineups. Let's strive to not have Soler play in the field. This one is not hard.

[Namaste]

I suspect we’re gonna have to “overpay” for Reynolds. There’s gotta be at least 4 or 5 teams who want him bad.

[rmc523]

Hosmer sucks - have you guys looked at this? I'm being serious here. He's terrible and barely above replacement level. Groshans or LeBlanc are literally better ideas. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/er...ts?position=1B

And that's as stated, ignoring he makes -0- positional sense because he can't cover anything else which is needed.

We just did this with Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. That didn't work and produced insane lineups. They need a versatile lineup. It's a 1B/3B type to act as backup 1B and 5th 2B/SS/3B player behind Jazz, Segura, one of Wendle/Rojas, and whoever the 4th IF is. This would isn't hard.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm looking at realistic Marlins options.

Hosmer = league minimum. Like it or not, that appeals to Bruce.

[fish16]

Hosmer sucks - have you guys looked at this? I'm being serious here. He's terrible and barely above replacement level. Groshans or LeBlanc are literally better ideas. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/er...ts?position=1B

And that's as stated, ignoring he makes -0- positional sense because he can't cover anything else which is needed.

We just did this with Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. That didn't work and produced insane lineups. They need a versatile lineup. It's a 1B/3B type to act as backup 1B and 5th 2B/SS/3B player behind Jazz, Segura, one of Wendle/Rojas, and whoever the 4th IF is. This would isn't hard.

This love affair with Groashans and Leblanc has to stop. They both will be sub replacement level players if they play in the big leagues. Your opinion on Groshans is entirely built on his prospect status. He hasnt hit for power in 2 full years. He was terrible with us at the major league level last year. Maybe he becomes a piece in a year or 2, but he's a AAA player this year. Leblanc will be figured out very soon. His BABIP was crazy, his K rate was 31% last year as opposed to Hosmer's 15%, which is a valuable trait off the bench. His WRC+ was 107, Hosmer's 104, and hosmer's BABIP was .304 as opposed to Leblanc's .374. Whether it's hosmer or another veteran option, they need a backup 1b/DH type who can provide quality ab's off the bench and not completely flame out WHEN Soler or Cooper get injured.

[fish16]

This player is someone like Longoria (or Justin Turner), it is not Hosmer. We just did this with Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. That didn't work and produced insane lineups. Let's strive to not have Soler play in the field. This one is not hard.

You keep saying this as if the reason it didnt work was the fit and not the fact that Aguilar predictably fell off a cliff last year. It worked fine in 2021 when Aguilar hit for a .788 OPS and 2020 when he had an .809 OPS. those 2 years Cooper had an .853 OPS and a .845 OPS. The problem wasnt the fit, the problem was the production last year.

[Erick]

You keep saying this as if the reason it didnt work was the fit and not the fact that Aguilar predictably fell off a cliff last year. It worked fine in 2021 when Aguilar hit for a .788 OPS and 2020 when he had an .809 OPS. those 2 years Cooper had an .853 OPS and a .845 OPS. The problem wasnt the fit, the problem was the production last year.

We didn’t have Soler clogging up DH the 2 years before either. Having all 3 never made much sense; it was partially a fit/roster construction problem.

[lou]

This love affair with Groashans and Leblanc has to stop. They both will be sub replacement level players if they play in the big leagues. Your opinion on Groshans is entirely built on his prospect status. He hasnt hit for power in 2 full years. He was terrible with us at the major league level last year. Maybe he becomes a piece in a year or 2, but he's a AAA player this year. Leblanc will be figured out very soon. His BABIP was crazy, his K rate was 31% last year as opposed to Hosmer's 15%, which is a valuable trait off the bench. His WRC+ was 107, Hosmer's 104, and hosmer's BABIP was .304 as opposed to Leblanc's .374. Whether it's hosmer or another veteran option, they need a backup 1b/DH type who can provide quality ab's off the bench and not completely flame out WHEN Soler or Cooper get injured.

You gotta stop taking things to extremes - there is no love affair with Groshans or LeBlanc, but compared to Hosmer *they are likely better with more upside.* That's just how bad Hosmer is - it's not a compliment those other guys are good starters right now. Hosmer is not giving "quality ABs." Look at Hosmer's stats? He's BAD. Groshans defensive value alone at 1B and slap hitting would likely trump Hosmer quickly, and LeBlanc at least hits the ball hard so even a 50 point BABIP drop may produce some slightly above replacement level results plus being able to play off 1B which is needed.

If we want to rank all of these names for who should be the 6th infielder on the roster (after Cooper, Jazz, Segura, one of Wendle/Rojas, likely Berti/but whoever, and _____), and to note this is a 400-450 PA role splitting time at 3B/1B so plenty of PA to not inhibit any prospect growth, the answers are:

1 - Longoria (and being able to trade Wendle/Rojas)
2A - B. Anderson reunion under $4m (assuming health) (and being able to trade Wendle/Rojas)
2B - Groshans
3 - Just keeping Wendle and Rojas and saying fuck it to backup 1B, and get a 1B glove to Bleday as the 4th OF and say good luck
4 - Belt --- > Trading Cooper (and Wendle/Rojas) and picking an option above
5 - Desperation - LeBlanc
6 - Fireable Event for Kim - Hosmer, in any permutation as he is terrible and the worst player here including a .220 hitting LeBlanc. MiLB deals excluded, sure sign him to that.


Other ideas (like trading for Arraez, moving many other IF to clear enough time at 3B for him) are also good ones, but we can't add in every trade idea here as that sets off a motion of moves as innings have to be replaced.


They can't hold two 1B only with Soler. They *really* need Longoria or to trade for some similar 1B/3B guy, unless they just are convinced Groshans is going to be a 1B/3B asset (I agree, that sounds like a 2024 thing and not now). So final answer is, Longoria, trade, or take the Groshans leap of faith. Nothing else makes much sense here as I do not believe Anderson is healthy as if he was, they'd have kept him for this slot. A good team would have a veteran here and use Groshans as the call up. So let's be a good team.