2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

Brian Anderson has a long track record of not living up to his potential. Garrett Cooper has a long track record of getting hurt all the time, plus Berti's FanGraphs WAR is .6 higher than Cooper's this year, despite playing 24 fewer games. Wendle is a left-handed Berti, but without the speed.

[lou]

Brian Anderson has a long track record of not living up to his potential. Garrett Cooper has a long track record of getting hurt all the time, plus Berti's FanGraphs WAR is .6 higher than Cooper's this year, despite playing 24 fewer games. Wendle is a left-handed Berti, but without the speed.

And Berti has been absolutely terrible for 3 weeks? Wendle is playing at a 5.3 WAR pace per 600 PA this year. Anderson has been a consistent 3 WAR player for years when healthy (including this one), and Cooper is a 2.5+ WAR and a good player.

Berti is playing great, but let's be realistic now. I'd probably but them as Wendle, Anderson, Berti, and Cooper (as corner hitters are always available) in terms of value. All are great 2nd-3rd pieces with an arm to a contender.

[Lee Stone]

Cabrera and Luzardo to start tonite at AA and AAA. No matter how shitty the 2022 record becomes, a return to the majors with notable success for those guys would be my highlight. Note: Losing Jazz for the duration is a major blow. Marlins are officially sellers.

[rmc523]

Berti if he has value can go for me, but the other 3 are good enough depth with team control for next year and have low enough value where you have to ask yourself whether its even worth it to trade them for the inevitable flier prospect you will get for them. Say what you want about how frustrating anderson is, but he's a major league starter, and same with Wendle and Cooper. Trading guys for the sake of just trading them makes no sense to me. Wtf are you realistically going to get for them that would make it worth it? Are you getting anyone for them that can give you mid .700
's to low .800's OPS any time soon?

To me the problem isn't that those guys are mediocre to slightly above average, it's the pieces around them also being bad or mediocre that lead to an overall putrid lineup. I'd keep those guys and do whatever it takes in other bigger trades to get the star guys in the lineup to surround those decent bats like those 3. Not that we would do this in any world, but if they trade for Soto and sign Correa or Trea Turner, those are great bottom of the lineup surrounding pieces. The problem is not them, it's the lack of help around them. Those are good 5th, 6th, or 7th pieces in the lineup. They are terrible 1st or 2nd options. You're not going to get the value for them that makes it worth it. If it was another full tear down and rebuild that would be 1 thing, but this is just an attempted makeover with the current core pieces. Keep those guys, deal pablo, bullpen arms, and any other spare pieces, and spend some fucking money for some star bats to compliment these decent lineup pieces.

I’d agree. He’s basically talking about starting over AGAIN.

[Erick]

I’d agree. He’s basically talking about starting over AGAIN.

Well I mean, this time it’s not a bad idea so I actually agree with Lou. I very much dislike the majority of this lineup.

Other than Jazz, these guys all suck/they’re very replaceable.

The manager criticized the roster construction yesterday after the game, and it was the first time this year he wasn’t wrong.

[fish16]

Well I mean, this time it’s not a bad idea so I actually agree with Lou. I very much dislike the majority of this lineup.

Other than Jazz, these guys all suck/they’re very replaceable.

The manager criticized the roster construction yesterday after the game, and it was the first time this year he wasn’t wrong.

I just think that this team has enough good pieces and young pitching that the moves they make should be focused on trying to win next year. Cooper, Wendle, and Anderson are under team control for next year and wont be all that expensive, and they are average to slightly above average hitters each. You can win with them, but just not how the marlins are trying to win with them. Great lineups have those kinds of guys at 7-8-9 in the lineup, terrible lineups like us have them as our 3 best hitters. The value you will get for them in a trade will be nothing special, and very likely no one that you could get similar production from next year. If you deal from the pitching and try to get big pieces to fit huge lineup holes or god forbid spend money on a carlos correa or trea turner in free agency, all of a sudden you still have these nice complementary pieces and Jazz, and if Soler opts in who knows, he could be a bounce back guy in a good lineup.

I just dont think you find 3 versatile bats who can put up .730-.800 OPS next year in our lineup in trades for them.

If anything, id at the very least let spring play out and see what happens. you can trade guys in spring right before the season after guys win jobs over them, or any one of them are very quality bench bats. It's ok to have a good competent bench.

I'm fine with anyone who is a free agent or is dead weight or could get us a huge haul that can improve the lineup, but any productive bats we do have should not be dealt unless you are getting that kind of immediate production back.

Just a hypothetical lineup that wont happen in reality because we wont spend in FA, but imagine we sign Correa and trade pablo for someone like Campusano and another hitter from the padres.

C- Campusano/Fortes
1b- Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- Correa
3b- Wendle
LF- Soler/Anderson
CF- Bleday
RF- Garcia/Sanchez
DH- Cooper
Bench- Rojas, Garcia/Sanchez, Soler/Anderson, Fortes

SP- Sandy, Meyer, Cabrera, Luzardo, Rogers (garrett, eury, sixto, eder)


That's good, easily achievable, and sadly completely out of the realm of reality for our ownership and front office. It's still missing 1 more bat, but if campusano pans out, that's a bunch of really good young hitters.

I love Campusano. Id just go to the padres and say this trade starts with pablo for abrams and campusano, tell me what else we need to add to make this happen. We have enough depth to theoretically make that deal work, but obviously the padres are probably not going to deal abrams. He's not ready yet though, and they are dying to make a run there, so maybe they go all in and we take advantage of it.

[fish16]

or pablo for triston casas with the red sox also could work. feels like he could be an anthony rizzo cornerstone type piece. big guy, off the charts power, great fielder, lefty hitter, also from broward. Could be a cornerstone hitter along with jazz and a guy like Correa.

[fish16]

Just some comps of these guys on good teams- Wendle is kike hernandez, Cooper is similar to cody ross, and Anderson to me can give us conine level production in his second stint with us late in his career from 2003-2005. Those types of guys are valuable when they are put in the appropriate role, especially in today's baseball where finding quality hitters is harder, but if they're forced to be more, your team is 43-49, your team OPS is .679, and you cant score runs.

[Erick]

A problem we might have, considering recent history, is that Kim Ng is in charge of making the moves. So far, very few have worked…

[Erick]

I just think that this team has enough good pieces and young pitching that the moves they make should be focused on trying to win next year. Cooper, Wendle, and Anderson are under team control for next year and wont be all that expensive, and they are average to slightly above average hitters each. You can win with them, but just not how the marlins are trying to win with them. Great lineups have those kinds of guys at 7-8-9 in the lineup, terrible lineups like us have them as our 3 best hitters. The value you will get for them in a trade will be nothing special, and very likely no one that you could get similar production from next year. If you deal from the pitching and try to get big pieces to fit huge lineup holes or god forbid spend money on a carlos correa or trea turner in free agency, all of a sudden you still have these nice complementary pieces and Jazz, and if Soler opts in who knows, he could be a bounce back guy in a good lineup.

I just dont think you find 3 versatile bats who can put up .730-.800 OPS next year in our lineup in trades for them.

If anything, id at the very least let spring play out and see what happens. you can trade guys in spring right before the season after guys win jobs over them, or any one of them are very quality bench bats. It's ok to have a good competent bench.

I'm fine with anyone who is a free agent or is dead weight or could get us a huge haul that can improve the lineup, but any productive bats we do have should not be dealt unless you are getting that kind of immediate production back.

Just a hypothetical lineup that wont happen in reality because we wont spend in FA, but imagine we sign Correa and trade pablo for someone like Campusano and another hitter from the padres.

C- Campusano/Fortes
1b- Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- Correa
3b- Wendle
LF- Soler/Anderson
CF- Bleday
RF- Garcia/Sanchez
DH- Cooper
Bench- Rojas, Garcia/Sanchez, Soler/Anderson, Fortes

SP- Sandy, Meyer, Cabrera, Luzardo, Rogers (garrett, eury, sixto, eder)


That's good, easily achievable, and sadly completely out of the realm of reality for our ownership and front office. It's still missing 1 more bat, but if campusano pans out, that's a bunch of really good young hitters.

I love Campusano. Id just go to the padres and say this trade starts with pablo for abrams and campusano, tell me what else we need to add to make this happen. We have enough depth to theoretically make that deal work, but obviously the padres are probably not going to deal abrams. He's not ready yet though, and they are dying to make a run there, so maybe they go all in and we take advantage of it.

Wendle is fine and I wouldn’t mind keeping him, but I also don’t care if he’s traded.

Don’t care if a team thinks Cooper is on a career year and pays up for him either. He’s a 1B/DH, most teams know how to find offensive value at those positions. Maybe the Marlins are dumb enough that they don’t, but Cooper really isn’t a must keep.

Brian Anderson would be a more interesting stopgap for 3B, but I really don’t care either especially since he sucks at 3B now if we’re being realistic. The metrics say he hasn’t been good, and watching the games only makes him look worse. He stinks at 3B and his offense isn’t that valuable to make him a must keep.

All in all, we just have a bunch of guys that we shouldn’t be losing sleep over if we lose them.

If they stay, cool. If they don’t, who cares.

[Nick]

Garrett Cooper’s career year is him having a .780 OPS as mostly a DH. Yawn.

[fish16]

it feels like we havent had a legit 1b since derek lee. He was so underrated here. That guy was an unbelievable 2 way player who we haven't been able to replace since. it feels like both corner IF spots have been that way, Since Lee and Lowell, we really haven't had any kind of long term, star level player at either position aside from Cabrera who was realistically a DH who had to play 3b. It's been non-stop Anderson, cantu's, mike jacob's, hee Seop choi's, Bour, Gabyh Sanchez, Prado types.

Berry paying off at his potential would be a big piece just to lock down one of those positions for years.

[Erick]

Of the hitters, the only guy that looks worth building around is Jazz. Small sample but Fortes is more interesting than he was before the year. I would like to see him get a chance to start. Stallings stinks and should only be used a couple times per week. Preferably Stallings just becomes the backup catcher or Sandy’s personal catcher since that seems to be working (because Sandy’s great but I guess we can make Stallings feel good about himself and say he’s calling a good game).

I’m kind of interested in keeping all of our pitchers because
A) They’re all mostly good.
B) You never have pitching depth (look at this year, and, really every year).
C) I have no confidence that the organization knows how to evaluate hitting.

I would rather spend money in free agency to upgrade the hitting and keep the pitching.

Our pitching, for the most part, is solid but everyone after Sandy is either not durable or doesn’t go deep into games anyway (which is the case with modern day pitchers). In a 162 game season, you need more than 5 starters realistically so just keep them all (they’re going to have to sign a veteran SP if they trade Pablo imo).

[Nick]

it feels like we havent had a legit 1b since derek lee.

We had that one year of Delgado.

[Erick]

Garrett Cooper’s career year is him having a .780 OPS as mostly a DH. Yawn.

Exactly

Most of our offensive players are yawns.