2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[sports24/7]

He's been in the big leagues for 10 years and has had a WAR over 1.0 just 3 times. they have limited money to spend and just bought high on a guy for his year 31-35 seasons at a position where they have a ton of prospect depth. he's also been straight up bad every other year since 2016.

The counterpoint to that, though, would be those 3 times were 2.2, 4.4, and 2.9, all coming in the last 5 seasons, two of them being in the last 3, with one of those non-1-plus WAR seasons, coming in a weird Covid year.

would have much rather signed conforto. Better player, younger, higher ceiling, and can play a little more CF if needed. If we were going to foolishly go 4 years on an OF id much rather have spent the money it took to get him.

I probably would have, also, but he would have also cost picks.

[fish16]

The counterpoint to that, though, would be those 3 times were 2.2, 4.4, and 2.9, all coming in the last 5 seasons, two of them being in the last 3, with one of those non-1-plus WAR seasons, coming in a weird Covid year.

fair, he's not a bad player, just don't get why they went 4 years on a 31 year old when they have a ton of OF depth coming up in the next few years. If it was 2 for 20 id be fine with it, just don't like 4 years for a guy who has been super inconsistent and screams to me that he is the type of guy who will come here and struggle in our ballpark like so many other mid level free agent bats before him.

[sports24/7]

fair, he's not a bad player, just don't get why they went 4 years on a 31 year old when they have a ton of OF depth coming up in the next few years. If it was 2 for 20 id be fine with it, just don't like 4 years for a guy who has been super inconsistent and screams to me that he is the type of guy who will come here and struggle in our ballpark like so many other mid level free agent bats before him.

Those are the reasons why we shouldn’t love the move, for sure. But I think you needed to add a corner OF bat, and that was the cost of doing business for a decent one. In a perfect world, Garcia and at least two of these young guys pans out and you can then trade one of them, or DH one.

[Namaste]

I don’t like the signing but fish16 said a 3 WAR player is not good again. That always makes me joker smile

Just to clarify……I only don’t like this signing because they could have Marte in CF if it was handled better by our ownership/FO.

[Lee Stone]

Is Garcia better than De La Cruz? This signing is a serious vote of no confidence in him, Bleday, Burdick, etc.

[lou]

My initial reaction is yuck. It’s a year too long for a corner player. I also had the same initial reaction as Lee - it’s a vote of no confidence in the teams corner OF.

But now I’m thinking two things.

1 - this is a win now move. You don’t sign that guy for this money and don’t expect to contend. I think we can debate if they have the team for that, but they have confidence if they are doing this and not a 1 year Duvall type signing and I like that moxie. If this is it, this sucks and see you guys never, but I think this portends to much more coming

2 - Maybe they hate their corner OF, but alternatively this is signing what you have and trading what you have. It’s the same concept where I want them to trade Pablo, Elisier, and meyer, and sign Jon Gray. If you have the depth, it’s now expendable. I think we’ll see Sanchez, Bleday, or Burdick shipped out as part of a trade. No insults to any of them, but they have major corner depth. Those guys can be really nice 2nd/3rd players in larger deals. I like the idea of Garcia-New CF-Sanchez/Bleday and Burdick as DH/4th OF, and Misner/Scott/DLC as 5th OF longterm. This works (assuming someone can backup CF and they generally work out).


I think we can’t judge this until we see the next 2-3 moves. I’m skeptical, but cautiously optimistic this makes sense. I think I’ll always hate the 4th year though.


Also, I’d rather have Luzardo and Garcia (ages 30.5-34.5) for 4/$53 than Marte (ages 33-36) at 4/$78

[sports24/7]

Mish is reporting the Sandy deal is done pending a physical. 5/$56M.

[lou]

Mish is reporting the Sandy deal is done pending a physical. 5/$56M.

Now it makes sense why it’s probably around $5m too high - there is an option!!!

5/$56 or

6/$75

so it’s 5/$54, $21m or $2m buyout.

This is from Miami Herald - no year to year breakdown yet

This is a win. I can’t believe they got a 6th year option

[rmc523]

The Rangers signed Jon Gray, so that's out.

4/56.

[Nick]

Like lou said if we're still going out and getting legit players at CF and C, then fine. Problem is, the options in CF are dwindling and it's troubling that Garcia is the first move we make.

[lou]

Like lou said if we're still going out and getting legit players at CF and C, then fine. Problem is, the options in CF are dwindling and it's troubling that Garcia is the first move we make.

I think we need to be fair here - there are no free agent catchers worth anyone's time and Marte was the only impact CF available. If they didn't want to go to 4/$78 with Marte (which I agree with), it's not a big deal to move on to the "whatever bat" acquisition. I don't mind they did this first. If anything, it's the 4th year in the the contract. I'm sure they have been talking to Minnesota, Toronto, Arizona, LAA, etc. and seeing who is available via trade, but those teams also need to wait to see what happens in free agency before they move on to trades themselves. This is the normal, let's not be impatient in the offseason even if the vision of what needs to be done is so clear.

I think we need a bunch of Freeman, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story, C. Taylor, Castellanos, and more importantly, Max, Ray, Stroman, Rodon, and Kershaw to sign. Once the last dozen real "impact" players are gone, all of a sudden Pablo becomes the best player available in all of baseball, and the Marlins SP depth is going to show its value.

[Nick]

I think we need to be fair here - there are no free agent catchers worth anyone's time and Marte was the only impact CF available. If they didn't want to go to 4/$78 with Marte (which I agree with), it's not a big deal to move on to the "whatever bat" acquisition. I don't mind they did this first. If anything, it's the 4th year in the the contract. I'm sure they have been talking to Minnesota, Toronto, Arizona, LAA, etc. and seeing who is available via trade, but those teams also need to wait to see what happens in free agency before they move on to trades themselves. This is the normal, let's not be impatient in the offseason even if the vision of what needs to be done is so clear.

I think we need a bunch of Freeman, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story, C. Taylor, Castellanos, and more importantly, Max, Ray, Stroman, Rodon, and Kershaw to sign. Once the last dozen real "impact" players are gone, all of a sudden Pablo becomes the best player available in all of baseball, and the Marlins SP depth is going to show its value.

Obviously I wasn't just talking about Free Agents. Marte and Buxton were the two most talked about CF options, and they're both off the table, that's a big deal. Don't tell me 4/$78 is too much for Marte then sign Avisail Garcia to 4 year/$53 million.

[lou]

Obviously I wasn't just talking about Free Agents. Marte and Buxton were the two most talked about CF options, and they're both off the table, that's a big deal. Don't tell me 4/$78 is too much for Marte then sign Avisail Garcia to 4 year/$53 million.

4/$78 is too much for 33 year old Marte. It's a much bigger overpay than the Garica deal. Doesn't mean the Garcia deal is great - probably should be 3/$40. It's interesting to me he got the 4th year. Must be a lot of player competition. The Marlins failure, if this even really happened, is prior to the trade if he was going to take a $40-50ish million dollar deal for 3-4 years. If that's true, they should have done that versus Luzardo + Garcia for $53. That fails big time for me on paper, but Luzardo breaking out could change that real quick too. We'll see.

I'm not even remotely mad about Marte at 4/$78. I saw that, and honestly laughed at how bad the deal is. But, if the owner doesn't care about blowing bucks at a plan destined to fail, good for that fan base for having something to cheer about in December. For Buxton, it always made sense for Minnesota to sign him. He's phenomenal when he plays. They got a very club friendly deal. We can't be angry they are smart with their own players. If Minnesota knew he would take something like that, they'd have wanted so much in return. His surplus value might be higher than Yelich on his 5 year deal right now.

Anyways, the Garcia deal is whatever. We just need to see the rest of the plan. I think the Sandy extension and this are decent first steps, and things are going to change pretty quickly around here if something like Ketel Marte/C.Kelly or Bryan Reynolds/Stallings drops for Meyer, Watson, Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick, Nicolas/Fulton/McCambley, and Neidert/Poteet/Holloway. They got the goods to blow someone out for the star.

[Lee Stone]

I certainly wouldn't group Jesus Sanchez with Bleday and Burdick. Jesus equaled Avisail in OPS+ last season per Baseball Reference and will likely have a much better career.

I'm a fan of a Ketel Marte/C Kelly deal. Meyer, Hernandez, Bleday, Burdick, Mack, Nicolas, and McCambley would be a reasonable starting point. Unfortunately, I'm guessing Arizona would want Watson and Perez (deal killers from my perspective).

[fish16]

i too think the next move will be marte and kelly for a bunch of pitching. And I would like that. don't like his injury history but I think that's the best possible upgrade right now in CF and kelly is a really good catcher IMO. Id be in favor of that.

Newest rumors have us in for eddie rosario, obviously castellanos, and now schwarber. Rosario would be just like Garcia, a stupid move to buy high on a guy likely at a pretty decent price. The interest in Schwarber though as well as other possible DH guys has me wondering if they will tender Aguilar or at least just trade him. Too many DH types to pay him the 7-10 million he will cost unless they are finally willing to spend on a really good bench.