2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[lou]

Garcia to DH? Cooper is a much better hitter than Garcia.

He's not a better hitter than Cooper today (Avisail hits the ball very, very, hard. Look at statcast). Also fun fact, Garcia is younger than Cooper. And I like Cooper. I'm fine giving him 1B and saving money on Aguilar.

Also throwing this out there - Avisail played 348 innings in CF in 2020 and was very good. Not sure Marlins park is the place for him (he was also very good in RF in 2021), but we might be able to consider Garcia a "backup" CF who might be able to start there 1-2 times a week and move over if double switches exist with no DH.

[fish16]

mets signing scherzer. he's a beast and if healthy that 1-2 in the rotation is the best in baseball, but I look forward to seeing how they fuck it up and end up as a dissapointment.

[fish16]

Assuming that his contract isn't going to be crazy, I actually wonder if Taylor would be the safest addition because of his versatility. Castellanos was my top choice among the guys I felt were realistic, but Taylor might be the smartest. If they do sign him, ideally they then prioritize getting a really good catcher, because in theory they could then use their biggest chips on that instead of needing to use them on an OF. Or, they could still use them on a good OF, still add a solid catcher, and have a good problem of having to figure out where to play the bats they have.

i agree, I'm just worried about the number of years for him. I just hate going so long into the future with older free agents. Im cool with anything 3 years or less, preferably 2 years. The money doesn't really matter to me as we have very limited obligations while most of these guys are under team control, I just worry about how long the deal is. Ive just seen too many times, specifically in this ballpark, that we sign free agents that immediately decline or regress. Not sure whether its the ballpark or the lineup we've thrown out there and granted they have moved the fences in, I just don't like how many guys we have signed and then seen that from to feel good about going 4 years on non star level free agents. We absolutely agree though that he is a very solid player and his versatility would fit in really well the next few years as prospects come up and we see what they can do.

[lou]

mets signing scherzer. he's a beast and if healthy that 1-2 in the rotation is the best in baseball, but I look forward to seeing how they fuck it up and end up as a dissapointment.

Steve Cohen is drunk. All these players are nice, but it's way too much money. But if I had $11 billion of wealth and a baseball team, I'd probably do similar shenanigans.

Marlins really need to build an entire roster so they don't get left behind like the Padres.

[rmc523]

ok for the 3 weeks cooper is healthy he can be DH. In his 4 years here he has played 14, 107, 34, and 71 games. Mattingly has repeatedly made comments about his ability to stay healthy. Id be surprised if he's on the team and, if he is, id be shocked if they count him as anything other than a bench bat with potential to give you more than expected if he stays healthy. You simply cant rely on the guy to stay healthy.

I’m honestly ok with moving on from Cooper at this point. I like the guy and he’s good when out there but he just can’t stay healthy. Now that’s not me saying just cut him loose for nothing. Tender him and tease him. I’m tired of this team casting away guys that have value “because.”

[fish16]

I’m honestly ok with moving on from Cooper at this point. I like the guy and he’s good when out there but he just can’t stay healthy. Now that’s not me saying just cut him loose for nothing. Tender him and tease him. I’m tired of this team casting away guys that have value “because.”

honestly depending on how much he would get in arbitration id just keep him, hope he stays healthy, and if not whatever. I don't think his value on the open market in a trade is all that much because of the injuries and if he stays healthy you could either have a really productive bench bat or a great DH. They just cant rely on him and pencil him in at a spot. But spending the money necessary and making it so that he can be a bright spot without truly relying on him for production would probably be the best use of that money. If he was getting $10 million id non tender him, but I cant imagine he is worth all that much in arbitration given his injury history.

[lou]

honestly depending on how much he would get in arbitration id just keep him, hope he stays healthy, and if not whatever. I don't think his value on the open market in a trade is all that much because of the injuries and if he stays healthy you could either have a really productive bench bat or a great DH. They just cant rely on him and pencil him in at a spot. But spending the money necessary and making it so that he can be a bright spot without truly relying on him for production would probably be the best use of that money. If he was getting $10 million id non tender him, but I cant imagine he is worth all that much in arbitration given his injury history.

He's worth a salary deflection. They could absorb something like D. Peralta (1/$8), Grichuk (2/$18.6), or Justin Upton (1/$28... this is an absorbing money to completely decimate their farm situation), and throw him back in a deal for Ketel/Kelly, Moreno/3B prospects, or Marsh/entire farm system. Cooper can easily cover 300-400 PA off the bench, especially with a DH. If he's going to a non-contender like Arizona, he is perfect trade bait if he can stay healthy. He can save someone some money. For instance, if I'm dreaming up a scenario for Cooper, it's including him in this:

Pablo, Elisier, Cooper, and Bass

G. Moreno, Groshans, Grichuk, throw-ins

Jays get 300-400 very competent innings and Cooper's 300-400 PA splitting time at 1B/DH/RF for basically the price of Grichuk. It's a salary dump both ways for things each needs. Pablo costs them two of their top 3 prospects, and one of the best catcher prospects in baseball. Payroll doesn't move in either direction. Marlins get their C and 3B of the future, and Grichuk, like Avisail, can dabble in CF.

Tons of payroll is left to do something else - like Chris Taylor (who would make a lot of sense in this scenario) and # 4/5 innings eater.

C - Alfaro, Fortes (Moreno AAA)
1B - Aguilar, Lewin
2B - Jazz
SS - Rojas, Berti
3B - Anderson, ______ (Groshans AAA)
LF - Sanchez, Grichuk (Bleday, Burdick AAA)
CF - C. Taylor
RF - Avisail

SP - Sandy, Rogers, Luzardo, Cabrera, ______ (Sixto, Meyer, Nicolas AAA)
RP - Bender, Floro, Thompson, Pop, Head
LP - Bleier, Okert, _______

That's a good team.

That's why I think Cooper is still around. He helps a salary dump offset.

[Namaste]

I don’t have a good comfort level with buying high on Rosario

[lou]

I don’t have a good comfort level with buying high on Rosario

I'm not sure why they would want him unless it's a 1 year deal, Bleday is expected to take over midseason, and Jesus Sanchez is shot out for a pitcher/catcher.

[fish16]

i really hope they dont send Sanchez anywhere. It's unnecessary, he was super impressive to end the year, he's cheap as hell for a long time, and he's been the best bat they've brought in the entire regime since we changed ownership. His bat has a ton of potential. They have more than enough pitching and other lesser OF prospects to deal before they unnecessarily send out probably their best hitter on the team currently and one of the highest ceiling bats in the organization.

[Nick]

I'm not sure why they would want him unless it's a 1 year deal, Bleday is expected to take over midseason, and Jesus Sanchez is shot out for a pitcher/catcher.

I don't like any of this. I know Bleday had a good Fall League, but you gotta show me something during the regular season in the minors. Burdick and Bleday were on the same team, had the same circumstances, and Burdick was the better player, in every single way. Plus, getting rid of the one prospect (Sanchez) we've brought up that has had legit success at the big league level at a very young age, I wouldn't be dealing him in almost any circumstance. Deal the pitching.

Also, getting a veteran starting pitcher is a need, but it's nowhere near the need of getting legit players at CF/C.

[fish16]

got a feeling the rangers will regret the last few days and the next few days by July at the latest. Just lots of stupid money being thrown around by a team that's not all that close.

[lou]

I don't like any of this. I know Bleday had a good Fall League, but you gotta show me something during the regular season in the minors. Burdick and Bleday were on the same team, had the same circumstances, and Burdick was the better player, in every single way. Plus, getting rid of the one prospect (Sanchez) we've brought up that has had legit success at the big league level at a very young age, I wouldn't be dealing him in almost any circumstance. Deal the pitching.

Also, getting a veteran starting pitcher is a need, but it's nowhere near the need of getting legit players at CF/C.

I don't necessarily disagree, but from a global view, there are 2 spots for Sanchez, Bleday, and Burdick (OF and DH, opposite Garcia). I'd assume at least 1 fails, but if one of them needs to be a 2nd player for a C or CF, I think you can sacrifice Sanchez and hope Bleday's AFL and/or Burdick's underlying stats are real (that's combined of course with Duvall/Cooper/Rosario vets pitching in). I would sell out for a young C and CF and build up the middle with Jazz, and all the minor league SS. Find corner players later.

Jazz, Sandy, and Rogers. Everyone else could go for a longterm C and CF right now.

[Lee Stone]

I don't like any of this. I know Bleday had a good Fall League, but you gotta show me something during the regular season in the minors. Burdick and Bleday were on the same team, had the same circumstances, and Burdick was the better player, in every single way. Plus, getting rid of the one prospect (Sanchez) we've brought up that has had legit success at the big league level at a very young age, I wouldn't be dealing him in almost any circumstance. Deal the pitching.

Also, getting a veteran starting pitcher is a need, but it's nowhere near the need of getting legit players at CF/C.

And Burdick can play a respectable CF in the meantime. I actually thought De La Cruz looked fine out there too.

Jesus Sanchez should be untouchable. If there is a real potential benefit of Bleday's AFL, it gives him a little extra trade value. Meyer, Bleday and Mack for Gabriel Moreno?

[lou]

And Burdick can play a respectable CF in the meantime. I actually thought De La Cruz looked fine out there too.

Jesus Sanchez should be untouchable. If there is a real potential benefit of Bleday's AFL, it gives him a little extra trade value. Meyer, Bleday and Mack for Gabriel Moreno?

Corner OF should never be untouchable IMO. This year's Braves team is really the epitome of that.

Blue Jays are win now. Those aren't win now players. Pablo and some of Elisier, Floro, Bleier, etc. That gets Toronto's attention very fast. They need a guy like Pablo desperately.