2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[sports24/7]

Mish clarified some of the stuff out there about what happened at the deadline on his podcast.

-He said that he's not sure about what Kim Ng was trying to say on the broadcast about the Marlins letting teams come to him, because it was his understanding that that wasn't true. He said that may have been the case with Pablo, but they were looking to make deals. My take before, which I feel even more confident about now, is that Ng was saying what she said to make it seem like Pablo was wanted, and they weren't shopping him, but she's just not a very good speaker. The question was first asked about Pablo, and it got interrupted by a stolen base. I don't believe that they actually just sat back and took calls.
-He said they were trying to make some deals like previous ones they've made (Jazz/Gallen, Jesus Sanchez, Diaz, etc.).
-He said from the non-Marlins people he's talked to, the feeling around the league is the Marlins did well in the Bass deal. Groshans probably won't be a perennial all-star, but if he's a solid starter, that's a good return for two replaceable RP.
-He didn't seem to feel they were very close with LA or the Yankees. He said those teams weren't really offering what Miami wanted. He said on a scale from 1-10 on how close those deals were, the Dodgers were like. 4, and the Yankees, maybe a 6.5. He suggested the Marlins didn't love the idea of Torres as the main piece coming back, and if Volpe was the main piece, Miami probably would have been interested, but the Yankees weren't doing that.
-He said they could re-visit trading Pablo again in the offseason.

He didn't really get into any other deals. He did say he expects that this offseason has to be when they go for it and add "key" players. He admitted that he said that last year, and could look stupid again, but he said he truly believes it.

Another interesting note was that apparently Jesus Sanchez showed up to a game 5 minutes before the start last month.

[lou]

Mish clarified some of the stuff out there about what happened at the deadline on his podcast.

-He said that he's not sure about what Kim Ng was trying to say on the broadcast about the Marlins letting teams come to him, because it was his understanding that that wasn't true. He said that may have been the case with Pablo, but they were looking to make deals. My take before, which I feel even more confident about now, is that Ng was saying what she said to make it seem like Pablo was wanted, and they weren't shopping him, but she's just not a very good speaker. The question was first asked about Pablo, and it got interrupted by a stolen base. I don't believe that they actually just sat back and took calls.
-He said they were trying to make some deals like previous ones they've made (Jazz/Gallen, Jesus Sanchez, Diaz, etc.).
-He said from the non-Marlins people he's talked to, the feeling around the league is the Marlins did well in the Bass deal. Groshans probably won't be a perennial all-star, but if he's a solid starter, that's a good return for two replaceable RP.
-He didn't seem to feel they were very close with LA or the Yankees. He said those teams weren't really offering what Miami wanted. He said on a scale from 1-10 on how close those deals were, the Dodgers were like. 4, and the Yankees, maybe a 6.5. He suggested the Marlins didn't love the idea of Torres as the main piece coming back, and if Volpe was the main piece, Miami probably would have been interested, but the Yankees weren't doing that.
-He said they could re-visit trading Pablo again in the offseason.

He didn't really get into any other deals. He did say he expects that this offseason has to be when they go for it and add "key" players. He admitted that he said that last year, and could look stupid again, but he said he truly believes it.

Another interesting note was that apparently Jesus Sanchez showed up to a game 5 minutes before the start last month.

Yea Marlins fans irrationally angry at that interview are LOLZ.

I like the idea of getting guys like Jazz/Sanchez/Lewin trades, Groshans is certainly a Sanchez type deal..... but ultimately they need to go get a dude also. Lewin may not even make the team next year. CF depth is terrible. They really need to go for it with Nimmo or make a BIG trade with Arizona. All other options are "Laureano" level absent something more monumental going on. Need some needle moving here. They can't nickel and dime past the Braves with are spending $500m on 4 hitters.

[sports24/7]

Yea Marlins fans irrationally angry at that interview are LOLZ.

I like the idea of getting guys like Jazz/Sanchez/Lewin trades, Groshans is certainly a Sanchez type deal..... but ultimately they need to go get a dude also. Lewin may not even make the team next year. CF depth is terrible. They really need to go for it with Nimmo or make a BIG trade with Arizona. All other options are "Laureano" level absent something more monumental going on. Need some needle moving here. They can't nickel and dime past the Braves with are spending $500m on 4 hitters.

With respect to fans getting angry, I kind of get it. Even Mish was a little baffled by what she said and suggested she might want to clarify the statement. When three pressure point transaction periods go by where fans are (rightfully) looking for them to do something, they’ve come up relatively empty, and we’ve heard about these “almost” deals. While I think with a little perspective, you can rationalize what she meant, I understand fans not taking those comments well.

[lou]

With respect to fans getting angry, I kind of get it. Even Mish was a little baffled by what she said and suggested she might want to clarify the statement. When three pressure point transaction periods go by where fans are (rightfully) looking for them to do something, they’ve come up relatively empty, and we’ve heard about these “almost” deals. While I think with a little perspective, you can rationalize what she meant, I understand fans not taking those comments well.

I'm a big picture kind of person. All of this is fluff. Let's see the moves - or no moves and then I give up.

[lou]

FG thinks Groshans 9th best prospect traded at deadline - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ranking-...2022-deadline/

Castillo-1, Soto 1-2-3, Montas 1-2, Mahle-1, and Marsh returns only ahead of Bass/Pop here. Pretty nice on paper for two right handed relievers.

[sports24/7]

I'm a big picture kind of person. All of this is fluff. Let's see the moves - or no moves and then I give up.

Absolutely. I think that's the level-headed response. And I'm there with you. But also, I don't blame fans for being at their breaking point.

But then again, I said the same thing last offseason, and I'm still here, lol.

[sports24/7]

FG thinks Groshans 9th best prospect traded at deadline - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ranking-...2022-deadline/

Castillo-1, Soto 1-2-3, Montas 1-2, Mahle-1, and Marsh returns only ahead of Bass/Pop here. Pretty nice on paper for two right handed relievers.

And honestly, they're lower on him than most. I would guess a lot of others would put him right below Waldichuk.

[Lee Stone]

super excited to see Cabrera back today. he needs to be in the plans as either a starter for years to come or a filthy closing option. 96 mph changeup is just ridiculous. Just pray he stays healthy the rest of the year, and hopefully he actually shows up to camp on time next year instead of the weird visa stuff he seems to keep have happening at the beginning of every spring. I'd trade pablo but if not, Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Eury is a ridiculously filthy rotation. But we've also said that for years with different combos including sixto, Meyer, eder, etc, so they need to actually produce instead of just being fun to think of on paper. I'm guessing garrett has earned a rotation spot next year to start while they inevitably play service time games with eury until may.

Side note- baseball America tweeted today that not only is Eury the youngest starter in AA, he'd be the youngest guy in A+ ball too. He is a surefire ace type guy and a top 5 prospect in baseball. Him and Sandy will be fun to watch for years, hopefully along with Cabrera, Meyer, Luzardo, and the corpse of sixto sanchez one day after his 5 year rehab period.

The domination by eury the last 2 years has been nothing short of incredible. He's 19 until next April, and over 2 years facing hitters who are much older, in 35 starts he's thrown 149 innings, 209 k's, 2.71 ERA, just 43 walks, .188 BAA, and a .95 WHIP. Just flat out domination.

Last three starts have been extremely poor for Perez. I expect to see him shut down for the rest of the season.

[lou]

Last three starts have been extremely poor for Perez. I expect to see him shut down for the rest of the season.

If he’s healthy needs 25-30 more IP on the season to build his arm up. He’s a kid and needs the reps. That sets him up for 120-130 next year which is ideally 30+ at MLB level in august and beyond

[Lee Stone]

I'd say the Marlins totally blew the trade deadline opportunity with Pablo. Rumor had it that Gavin Lux was available from the Dodgers in a straight one-for-one deal. Lux would have instantly added a three hitter with positional flexibility. As reported here (Dodgers Rumors: Marlins' asking price for Pablo Lopez was insane (dodgersway.com) the Marlins asked for Lux plus some top prospects and effectively killed the deal. By starting Lopez on Sunday, a game that was his career worst start, they eliminated any chance of good trade with any team.

Nick Neidert was certainly ready to assume Lopez' spot in the rotation. He's been extraordinary this season, putting up Zac Gallen AAA numbers.

Of all the minor leaguers that started the season in the Marlins organization, the top hitter has been Isan Diaz - though he has accomplished that for another team since being released.

[lou]

I'd say the Marlins totally blew the trade deadline opportunity with Pablo. Rumor had it that Gavin Lux was available from the Dodgers in a straight one-for-one deal. Lux would have instantly added a three hitter with positional flexibility. As reported here (Dodgers Rumors: Marlins' asking price for Pablo Lopez was insane (dodgersway.com) the Marlins asked for Lux plus some top prospects and effectively killed the deal. By starting Lopez on Sunday, a game that was his career worst start, they eliminated any chance of good trade with any team.

Nick Neidert was certainly ready to assume Lopez' spot in the rotation. He's been extraordinary this season, putting up Zac Gallen AAA numbers.

Of all the minor leaguers that started the season in the Marlins organization, the top hitter has been Isan Diaz - though he has accomplished that for another team since being released.

A lot to unpack here:

-They have Pablo for 2 more years of control so they didn't blow anything. They can always trade him next year if that decision is made. Based on what Berrios/Castillo got, he will be 95% as valuable so not a big deal. It would be a lesser FV40 prospect as the third player. No big deal. Health permitting.

-Fansided is a glorified fan blog and doesn't know shit.

-Lux has 11 HR and a slugging a shade under .400 his last 725 PA. 3 hole hitter?

-Lux also has positional flexibility if you don't care about defense. He's likely a longterm LF, or maybe he can do 2B enough and the bat carries him over to be well above average. Then on top of that, Jazz can be a borderline elite 2B defensively. Lux is kicked to LF for the Marlins, and would dabble off days in the IF.

-See above regarding Fansided being a glorified message board, however we also don't know what the deal is. The Marlins are not entirely stupid despite some bone-headed moves like no CF/keeping Aguilar. They understand Lux's value (who does look to be quite good just not the ideal fit here) and that Pablo alone wouldn't move the needle for more on top of that. My guess is they had Cooper and Floro (and maybe someone else) packaged with Pablo and were shooting for something like Lux/Vargas/Pages/Outmann, which then makes a ton of sense to get a possible 3B and two CF options out of this. All roads lead to CF.

-Pablo having "1" bad start before the deadline does "0" to his value. Team's have an enormous sample size to work with. Everyone know who he is.

-Neidert is not Zac Gallen, but hopefully he is figuring it out and can be penciled into the 7th SP spot/longman RP spot next year and eat 80-100 innings. That would be great.

-And yea, Isan's stats look amazing. We'll se if he can hit MLB pitching.


Big picture, not moving Pablo at the trade deadline is not a big deal but they absolutely need 2 major bat upgrades this winter. A CF and then likely either a longterm SS or 1B. Ideally, they'd do all three but you know, Bruce is a problem.

[Nick]

Isan had an even higher OPS in AAA in 2019 when he came up and fucking tanked immediately in the Bigs. Obviously him raking AAA in 2022 doesn't mean anything.

[Nick]

I would like to see Neidert at the bigs the rest of the year, though. He's pitched great at AAA and looked good in his 1 start in the bigs. There's no reason we couldn't see him take a similar step forward to what we've seen from Garrett this year.

I really think so many of the deficiencies of the pitching could be solved by a manager who is willing to get creative with bullpen use. Why do we only see relievers going multiple innings when the game is out of hand? We're going to need guys like Poteet, Neidert, Hernandez, to follow up Luzardo, Cabrera and eventually Eury. Give you 2-3 innings when they enter a game, and then have the ability to slot in the rotation if/when one of the big boys gets hurt. Should help keep guys healthy and not have to count so much on retread relievers to get through the 5th-6th-7th.

[fish16]

cabrera and luzardo were super encouraging this weekend. just let them come out every 5 days till the season ends and pray for no injuries. both are pretty filthy.

Burdick is clearly not ready but I can definitely see a sanchez/burdick platoon at some point. makes too much sense.

Leblanc is a major league hitter. He hits the ball hard. Give him some everyday playing time.

Lewin it appears is just never going to work out here and I don't think they truly believe in him at all as a long term option. So we pretty much have 7 positions without a proven long term solution in year 5 of a rebuild.

[Nick]

Yeah I just don't see it with Lewin, it's a shame, because I love watching him play first base.