June Game Thread

[Namaste]

They absolutely have to spend $$$ prior to the 2021 season because THE WHOLE POINT OF A REBUILD IS TO ULTIMATELY WIN THE WORLD SERIES and even the most ridiculously optimistic Marlins fan has to know that there will be at least 1 or 2 major holes to fill to win the WS.

[fish16]

And its also not "hoping you luck into contending with declining players." Signing Andrus and Abreu arent pinning all of your hopes on them vaulting us into contention and being the 2 best players on the team. Its adding productive "role" players who will immediately become good, competent, complementary players around the pitching staff we are developing who are the actual players who would be leading us to contention in that scenario. Plus if you do it correctly, you line up their contracts so that the smart veteran additions you add start to become free agents again around the time the current crop of young players start getting into arbitration and free agency themselves.

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They absolutely have to spend $$$ prior to the 2021 season because THE WHOLE POINT OF A REBUILD IS TO ULTIMATELY WIN THE WORLD SERIES and even the most ridiculously optimistic Marlins fan has to know that there will be at least 1 or 2 major holes to fill to win the WS.

100%. they should be signing 2 bats this offseason. Im saying it needs to be the right guys if youre going to give them huge long term money. If not, you make smart lesser additions that will absolutely help you in the next few years while continuing to smartly build an overall healthy organization. I just hate the philosophy of signing above average players to star type deals to try to "prove" something to your fans who have shown time and time again that spending money isnt what is keeping this ballpark from being filled.

[lou]

They absolutely have to spend $$$ prior to the 2021 season because THE WHOLE POINT OF A REBUILD IS TO ULTIMATELY WIN THE WORLD SERIES and even the most ridiculously optimistic Marlins fan has to know that there will be at least 1 or 2 major holes to fill to win the WS.

Fucking duh. They need their Machado, and his name is Rendon, and he will cost $100+ million less.

[fish16]

Fucking duh. They need their Machado, and his name is Rendon, and he will cost $100+ million less.

this i absolutely agree with. Id be fine with them spending huge on him.

[lou]

Andrus and Avery are 2 WAR players next year. Jesus Christ. That’s the worst way to spend money.

[Nick]

If you can get Rendon for something like 8 years/$200 million you do it in a heartbeat. I just think it'll probably take more.

Also, we really have no frame of reference, or indication on how much they'll be willing/able to spend. So we as fans can't really speculate, all we can do is hope.

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Maybe 6 years/$180 million is more like it, of what seems fair to me. Rendon is a little older than what I was thinking.

[fish16]

Andrus and Avery are 2 WAR players next year. Jesus Christ. That’s the worst way to spend money.

On a 1-2 year deal as a compliment to a big Ozuna or ideally Rendon signing it is fine. also, Andrus is already at 1.3 WAR this year in just 48 games, was injured for most of last year, and was at 4.1 the year before. If you can get him on a moderate 1-2 year deal as opposed to overpaying Didi, that is a much more efficient use of your resources.

You dont overpay a guy and know you are doing it at the moment the contract is signed as a way of proving something to a fanbase, especially a fanbase like ours who time and time again have proven they really dont give a shit about spending big on a guy, they are only showing up if you win. Trying to "prove something" to a fanbase is how awful teams are run and how you end up with a bunch of overpaid longterm contracts over time. You continue to build the smart way What are you expecting gregorious to get?

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we were 9th coming into tonight in starters ERA and we were right there with 7 and 8 who both had pretty not great starts tonight, so we will have to wait until the numbers update tomorrow, but i think our group of starters is now up to 7th in the league in ERA.

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the middle tier of free agency in baseball is like the middle tier of free agency in the nba- it's a horribly inefficient use of resources. That is unless you are limiting those types of deals to 1-2 years. Free agency is generally most efficiently used to sign the best guys to big money and then to go after diamonds in the rough that you can get solid production out of for cheap money. At least for teams that arent the dodgers, yankees, cubs, sox, etc who can afford to just hand out those middling free agency type deals and not be affected if they flop. A team like us doesnt have that luxury. Keep building from within and supplement it with big free agent deals for a legitimate star or continue to try to find value deals for low cost free agents.

[fish16]

And final point, Didi is 29 coming off tommy john surgery as a ss who needs a strong arm. This idea that we should sign Didi to huge money but not Andrus or Abreu because they might be declining is ignoring the fact rhat Didi has likely peaked as well. He’s also a career .745 ops guy in a pretty huge sample size

[Namaste]

I think you can have TJS and come back with a strong arm.

[Nick]

Obviously if the asking price is too high on Didi you go in a different direction. I just think he will be the best option available.

[lou]

Obviously if the asking price is too high on Didi you go in a different direction. I just think he will be the best option available.

Duh

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And final point, Didi is 29 coming off tommy john surgery as a ss who needs a strong arm. This idea that we should sign Didi to huge money but not Andrus or Abreu because they might be declining is ignoring the fact rhat Didi has likely peaked as well. He’s also a career .745 ops guy in a pretty huge sample size

Come on man. Look at Didi's stats. Throw out 2013-2015. It's clear he is a different offensive player. Also note the BB spike last year.

Didi is a vastly superior defensive player. He has the highest floor, as well as the highest ceiling.

I don't know what he did to you, but he's a good player. If all you get is his 2015, great. That's probably the floor. Chances are, the slugging is coming for at least a few years.

But as said, sure its price dependent.

[fish16]

Obviously if the asking price is too high on Didi you go in a different direction. I just think he will be the best option available.

At ss fine, maybe, I’m saying the expected price doesn’t match the production. And if he was 26 I could see the argument, but he’s a 29 year old career .745 ops guy. You don’t sign guys like that to huge money. It’s the single most inefficient use of resources there is. Signing Guys who are good but not great to long term deals for huge money is how bad teams are run, especially bad small market teams. It’s just an inefficient use of resources. If you can get him at a value, I’d be all for it, I’m just going off of what the expected price is going to be. On a short term deal or for an amount of money that constitutes a value it is fine. But paying him as a star is simply put a poor use of a limited resource. Every dollar spent should be used to maximize the value per dollar spent as a small market team

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Duh

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Come on man. Look at Didi's stats. Throw out 2013-2015. It's clear he is a different offensive player. Also note the BB spike last year.

Didi is a vastly superior defensive player. He has the highest floor, as well as the highest ceiling.

I don't know what he did to you, but he's a good player. If all you get is his 2015, great. That's probably the floor. Chances are, the slugging is coming for at least a few years.

But as said, sure its price dependent.

maybe we just simply disagree on how representative his stat line is the last few years in what is supposed to be his prime, in a loaded yankees lineup, in one of the best hitting parks in the league compared to what it would be not surrounded by a lineup of great hitters, in one of the worst hitting parks in the big leagues, as he ages (he'll be 30 next opening day).

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You pay guys based on what they will do in the future, not what theyve done in the past. Obviously there is a bit of unknown projecting that you have to do, but my overall point is that he's not going to perform like a star type player in this lineup and ballpark, and Andrus next 2 years for a moderate amount of money is just a more efficient use of resources than Didi for 4 or 5 till age 34/35 for the amount of money he will command.

[Nick]

Didi's I think slated to come back from injury at any time now. If he comes back and plays the rest of the year without injury, puts up an OPS around .800, and his defense is just as good as it was. I think I'd go something like 3 years/$54 million to get him here.

[fish16]

up to 8th in starters ERA and went from worst run differential to 23rd in the league since our low point

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Didi's I think slated to come back from injury at any time now. If he comes back and plays the rest of the year without injury, puts up an OPS around .800, and his defense is just as good as it was. I think I'd go something like 3 years/$54 million to get him here.

that's a huge if though. He's literally only been over an .800 OPS once. And over his last 3 years, the best 3 years of his career, he is .814 in that great home hitters park and just a .767 OPS on the road. He would not be worth 18 million over 3 years for his age 30-33 seasons in this ballpark and in this lineup. Id take Andrus for 2 years 20-25 million over giving a guy who has only had over an .800 OPS once in his career 18 million for 3 straight years at a point in his career where he is no longer ascending as a player. Especially when you have options that we have invested in at the SS position in Devers, Johnson, and now Nunez who should be ready and under team control for 6 years within the time that contract would still be outstanding.

[Nick]

up to 8th in starters ERA and went from worst run differential to 23rd in the league since our low point

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that's a huge if though. He's literally only been over an .800 OPS once. And over his last 3 years, the best 3 years of his career, he is .814 in that great home hitters park and just a .767 OPS on the road. He would not be worth 18 million over 3 years for his age 30-33 seasons in this ballpark and in this lineup. Id take Andrus for 2 years 20-25 million over giving a guy who has only had over an .800 OPS once in his career 18 million for 3 straight years at a point in his career where he is no longer ascending as a player. Especially when you have options that we have invested in at the SS position in Devers, Johnson, and now Nunez who should be ready and under team control for 6 years within the time that contract would still be outstanding.

His 2017-2018 performances were pretty similar. with a slight uptick in 2018 If he's still keeping up that kind of production I'd go 3 years $18 million a year. You say he's no longer ascending as a player, but he's literally improved his hitting for 5-years running. Obviously we'll see what he looks like coming back from injury, and that'll be a huge factor in what kinda deal he gets this offseason. You get his Age 30-32 years, that's not a huge risk, and I think best case scenario Devers is ready by that 3rd year of Didi's contract at which point you might be able to deal Didi if you want to.