Season Super Game Thread

[fish16]

Real numbers don't lie. Projections are just that, projecting the future, which is a risky business - because they can easily be wrong.

Brinson's performance on the field is evident. He is not an MLB caliber player. You have to be able to be an offensive player that can at least hit your own weight....he can't seemingly do that, let alone even hit the Mendosa Line.

It looks like they probably screwed up on the Yelich trade and if they did their rebuild is in extreme jeopardy right now. Satanton we all understand was a money dump, we get that.....the return wasn't going to be great. And Ozuna he's still a wild card because of Boras & signability. But in Yelich they HAD to be spectacular because he was controlable and the safest bet for any team trading for him.

They have to NAIL at least 1 starter in the drafts in 2018 and 2019, and trade Realmuto for at least 1 MLB starter or it's a failed rebuild and you are forced to spend more money than you want on Free Agency or it's at lesast another losing season at the MLB level. Can the fan base endure that ?

And of course the fans will be blamed for not coming out, even though MLB has not produced an organization that can even put a winning team for one season on the field. Around the country it's always the fans in Miami don't show up.....they had the MVP and didn't show up, ect.....it doesn't matter you need to win and there has been 2 winning seasons since 2003.....that's not 2 playoff teams, that's 2 winning seasons. That is a lot to ask of ANY fanbase much less one that has as many economic problems as there are in Miami.

to be fair for the fan criticisms, at some point fans have to take some sort of blame. I dont blame them with the old stadium, then i dont blame them when we dump all the guys in 2012/2013. But last year there was no excuse, as someone pointed out the other day, we were one of the better teams in the league for a 3-4 month stretch, we had one of the best power outputs in major league history and a guy who was hitting the ball harder than almost anyone else in major league history, and even when we went on the run to get 3 over .500 and back in the wild card race, i went to a game on a saturday night against the padres in the end of august when stanton was on that run and when we were on a 7 game win streak or something like that and there were less than 5000 fans there.

I dont blame them for it always and i dont think its fair to criticize them for not coming out in the years where we are the worst team in the league, but at some point it is on the fans to an extent when there should be people in the ballpark to support the team.

[rmc523]

Well Jeter has commanded that Brinson be up - because he's gonna like fill the stadium cuz, you know, he's a local kid....

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I guess if you guys keep telling yourself Brinson's not a bust, you'll really believe it one day.

But the numbers don't lie......we are 6 weeks into the season. This year to date + last year in Milwaukee, he has an MLB BA of .152. Sorry but that's not just "he needs to go down". He would be overmatched in AAA too. Just admit it we got fleeced in the Yelich trade (same old Marlins).

He should've been kept down for service time alone. If you want to let him struggle up here after that in a lost year, go ahead, but to have him up to start, completely ignoring service time is ridiculous.

[tjfla]

Weiters injured for Nationals. Time for Realmuto trade? Watching Acuna play, I'd like to have a player like that ... Robles. Maybe his being out with an injury and the Nats slow start make him available now. If not, a package of Kieboom, Raudy Read, and a pitching prospect might work.

Soto and Robles are untouchable. If Washington called and said EITHER of them the trade would be done in 5 mins. Same goes for Vlad Jr

Kieboom Read and pitcher only?? Washington MAYBE with Kieboom/Severino/Crowe/Luis Garcia and another prospect

I would rank them as Toronto/Washington/NY Mets

Toronto-Bo
Washington-Kieboom/Garcia or Antuna
NY Mets-Peterson and maybe Rosario???(Distant 3rd)

All 3 teams know what we want for him however

[Maddawg]

He should've been kept down for service time alone. If you want to let him struggle up here after that in a lost year, go ahead, but to have him up to start, completely ignoring service time is ridiculous.

I agree on the service time. That is the front office either now believing they got a bust and don't care, or just being naïve enough that they really thought he would bring fans to the stadium. Do they really think the fans are that child-like ? It is quite perplexing what the front office is thinking on this one. It's been enough time to see "he ain't gettin' it" at least for right now, so send him down.

I wonder why no one in the media asks this question ?

[fish16]

Soto and Robles are untouchable. If Washington called and said EITHER of them the trade would be done in 5 mins. Same goes for Vlad Jr

Kieboom Read and pitcher only?? Washington MAYBE with Kieboom/Severino/Crowe/Luis Garcia and another prospect

I would rank them as Toronto/Washington/NY Mets

Toronto-Bo
Washington-Kieboom/Garcia or Antuna
NY Mets-Peterson and maybe Rosario???(Distant 3rd)

All 3 teams know what we want for him however

If washington doesnt offer either soto or Robles, I hope we either keep JT and try to overpay him like crazy as the one "building Block" type guy like the royals did with Perez or we just move him to another team. I dont really think its a big deal to trade within the division if thats the best package you can get, but I think you cant deal him to the nats without getting at least one of those guys. Kieboom is a good prospect but I think we need to get that one star type guy for JT because I think we can get good but not great prospects like Kieboom for one of our other players potentially and we need to maximize the star power in a return for JT rather than more organizational depth. To me, I honestly think Robles is now the lesser prospect than soto at this point, and robles in his own right is still an incredible prospect, I just think Soto is the 2nd best hit tool in the minors aside from Vlad Jr, who is just a surefire superstar.

Just have the teams bid against each other and hope one caves. Tucker from Houston, Bo from Toronto, I dont like anything from the Mets unless we would be able to get Rosario somehow, Robles/Soto from Washington.

This is all plan b to me though, to me you cant let JT go if there is even the slightest hint that you can re-sign him long term. I think it would even make sense to give him more money up front and decline in money a little over time to convince him because he still has another 2 years or arbitration anyways. Something like 5/75 at 15 annual average but start at like 16, 17, 18, and then decline in the last 2 years to compensate for his age and then the hopeful plan coming to fruition where we would be able to get more free agents/guys getting into arbitration raises. Im not usually the one who thinks its important to set an example of a player for the fans, but I think JT is different and especially given his positional value and how much everyone raves about his leadership ability he would be a great first cornerstone in this rebuild.

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He should've been kept down for service time alone. If you want to let him struggle up here after that in a lost year, go ahead, but to have him up to start, completely ignoring service time is ridiculous.

completely agree. They put way too much stock into his spring training stats even though they were clearly hollow at the time and the stupid thinking that anyone would be coming out solely because he is likeable and a local kid. K/BB is one of the biggest indicators to me of future success and even putting up numbers in the spring it was obvious he still had to work on that in AAA, and with the service time issue it made all the sense in the world. Luckily, it appears we will get lucky and we will end up sending him down with another week or 2 without any signs of progress.


The worst part, to me, is that they are literally choosing the worst possible option for him. If they want to keep him up and let him lead off everyday and get as many major league ab's as possible, ok, fine. Its not smart long term financially, but at least hes getting major league opportunities. Having him up here to hit 8th every day between rojas and the pitcher is absurd.

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I agree on the service time. That is the front office either now believing they got a bust and don't care, or just being naïve enough that they really thought he would bring fans to the stadium. Do they really think the fans are that child-like ? It is quite perplexing what the front office is thinking on this one. It's been enough time to see "he ain't gettin' it" at least for right now, so send him down.

I wonder why no one in the media asks this question ?

Because our beat writers are really bad, and Frisaro is very obviously trying to make ins with the new front office/ownership so he wont criticize it. It's really stupid.

[tjfla]

The thing everyone seems to miss about JT is he has NO desire to sign long term with us. People act like we are the only ones who would overpay and give him a crazy contract. 29 teams in MLB would. We have until the Winter Meetings to get max value for him(after Winter Meetings-1/2019) his value starts dropping because less control like Ozuna thing.

If he goes to Washington they would sign him to same long term deal as we would. Same with Toronto or even NY Mets. The thing is he does NOT wanna be in Miami

Everything I hear is they are still trading him just waiting till they get what they want for him which is what I mentioned.Vlad Jr/Soto/Robles/Tucker get offered and he is gone that day but otherwise they like Bo,Kieboom and more,Peterson and more,Alvarez and more and would have to iron stuff out

[fish16]

I like kieboom, but as the main piece back in a JT deal, i'd need at least 5 players. Kieboom, Crowe, Reed, one of the young SS's, and another piece.

[Nick]

The thing everyone seems to miss about JT is he has NO desire to sign long term with us. People act like we are the only ones who would overpay and give him a crazy contract. 29 teams in MLB would. We have until the Winter Meetings to get max value for him(after Winter Meetings-1/2019) his value starts dropping because less control like Ozuna thing.

The thing you seem to forget about the JT situation is that you don't have any more insight into the situation than anyone else on this board.

[tjfla]

The thing you seem to forget about the JT situation is that you don't have any more insight into the situation than anyone else on this board.

Like always u are correct. Thanks for reminding me

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I like kieboom, but as the main piece back in a JT deal, i'd need at least 5 players. Kieboom, Crowe, Reed, one of the young SS's, and another piece.

Ya u would need that in Washington or Mets deal. While Toronto would be 3 players

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Forgot to mention-SF has called us on a few guys. Arms/Starlin Castro. No real talks yet but we like Chris Shaw,Aramis Garcia and Jacob Gonzalez. Wouldnt be surprised that if we did something with them if Jacob Gonzalez was coming back here

[fish16]

I hate the mets system so much, i really hope we dont go that route. Even Amed Rosario has been really bad thus far in the majors, but it's still such a small sample size and he's so young.

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Chris shaw to me would make a ton of sense in a deal with SF. we liked him in the stanton talks and we could use another power bat in the system who would probably be promoted to the majors right away once we trade bour.

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The hardest part of a rebuild is waiting till the deadline and offseason despite knowing that so many of these guys are going to inevitably be dealt. just wish we could fast forward and see the returns we get on some of these guys already. Just keep sticking to the process though. Caleb smith is an example of the kind of shots we need to keep taking as we churn through players over the next year or 2. Low risk move and it looks like we got a valuable rotation piece for a while. I think Cooper has potential as well he just got hurt super early. That deal is gonna look really good.

[tjfla]

I hate the mets system so much, i really hope we dont go that route. Even Amed Rosario has been really bad thus far in the majors, but it's still such a small sample size and he's so young.

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Chris shaw to me would make a ton of sense in a deal with SF. we liked him in the stanton talks and we could use another power bat in the system who would probably be promoted to the majors right away once we trade bour.

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The hardest part of a rebuild is waiting till the deadline and offseason despite knowing that so many of these guys are going to inevitably be dealt. just wish we could fast forward and see the returns we get on some of these guys already. Just keep sticking to the process though. Caleb smith is an example of the kind of shots we need to keep taking as we churn through players over the next year or 2. Low risk move and it looks like we got a valuable rotation piece for a while. I think Cooper has potential as well he just got hurt super early. That deal is gonna look really good.

We paid tooo much for Smith and Cooper. $250K and mid level pitcher

Doubt we would get Shaw in any deal with them just saying what we like. Jacob Gonzalez is 3B prospect 19 and Luis Gonzalez's kid. He was supposedly the "mid level" prospect we were getting in Stanton deal

[fish16]

Damn chris shaw is striking out a ton this year too. And heliot ramos has had a really tough start to the year as well. Be interesting to see how guys like them and the other guys that were being talked about in their system and the STL system in both the stanton and ozuna deals pan out.

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the arm michael king that we gave up in that smith deal is also pitching incredibly well to start his yankees career too though. Still I think smith has a chance to be a really good mid rotation arm for a while.

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It really bothers me that Brinson is up here and we are hitting him 8th again and Prado continues to hit 2nd. Prado would be a perfect number 8 hitter anyways given his approach, but winning doesnt even matter and brinson is getting fucked by having hit 8th every game while struggling.

[Lee Stone]

Shucks. 1-16 with runner in scoring position

[lou]

The thing everyone seems to miss about JT is he has NO desire to sign long term with us. People act like we are the only ones who would overpay and give him a crazy contract. 29 teams in MLB would. We have until the Winter Meetings to get max value for him(after Winter Meetings-1/2019) his value starts dropping because less control like Ozuna thing.

If he goes to Washington they would sign him to same long term deal as we would. Same with Toronto or even NY Mets. The thing is he does NOT wanna be in Miami

Everything I hear is they are still trading him just waiting till they get what they want for him which is what I mentioned.Vlad Jr/Soto/Robles/Tucker get offered and he is gone that day but otherwise they like Bo,Kieboom and more,Peterson and more,Alvarez and more and would have to iron stuff out

Personally, I think money talks here. Something like 6/$75 is the most lucrative deal in baseball history for a catcher with his service time, and is probably # 3 all time next to Mauer and Buster's deals. They also you know, won MVPs.

I don't care how unhappy you are that you play on a bad team, that says something (with no state income for half the season). I don't know if the Marlins would go that high considering the comps say $50 million for 5 years, but you make him an offer he cannot refuse. Payroll is whatever next couple years. Front load that shit in 19 and 20 as a kicker, and buy his love.

That being said, if he illogically is willing to risk his health as a catcher and not take a precedent setting deal, then yes. Hold on to him until you get at least $80 million in prospect value (https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valu...100-prospects/) and that's the end of the story.

[fish16]

Personally, I think money talks here. Something like 6/$75 is the most lucrative deal in baseball history for a catcher with his service time, and is probably # 3 all time next to Mauer and Buster's deals. They also you know, won MVPs.

I don't care how unhappy you are that you play on a bad team, that says something (with no state income for half the season). I don't know if the Marlins would go that high considering the comps say $50 million for 5 years, but you make him an offer he cannot refuse. Payroll is whatever next couple years. Front load that shit in 19 and 20 as a kicker, and buy his love.

That being said, if he illogically is willing to risk his health as a catcher and not take a precedent setting deal, then yes. Hold on to him until you get at least $80 million in prospect value (https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valu...100-prospects/) and that's the end of the story.

that's what im saying. Offer him way above his comp and front load it so that he gets money he wouldnt get up front, and that way when the other guys hopefully start devloping and getting into arbitration and maybe we can get a free agent it will be less of a burden.