Season Super Game Thread

[emkayseven]

Not a fan of Will Smith, but if we were able to get Ruiz from the Dodgers I'd do it, I just don't see them moving him for a reliever (or two) and they already have a big logjam with the bats now that Machado is on board.

[lou]

Not a fan of Will Smith, but if we were able to get Ruiz from the Dodgers I'd do it, I just don't see them moving him for a reliever (or two) and they already have a big logjam with the bats now that Machado is on board.

Smith is hitting the crap out of the ball this year. He's basically ranked 60th overall prospect on fangraphs. What am I missing?

Seems like a perfect guy to target (even if Ruiz might be better) for moving relievers (assuming JT is eventually gonna be moved).

[Nick]

Smith is hitting the crap out of the ball this year. He's basically ranked 60th overall prospect on fangraphs. What am I missing?

Seems like a perfect guy to target (even if Ruiz might be better) for moving relievers (assuming JT is eventually gonna be moved).

I noticed Smith and Ruiz are on the same team at AA, do we know which of the two gets more PT at catcher?

[lou]

I noticed Smith and Ruiz are on the same team at AA, do we know which of the two gets more PT at catcher?

We do. Ruiz has 50+ starts at C, and Smith is basically 50/50 same amount of games C/3B.

The reports I see show no indication he isn't a catcher and one said a Barnes clone positionally.

[Nick]

We do. Ruiz has 50+ starts at C, and Smith is basically 50/50 same amount of games C/3B.

The reports I see show no indication he isn't a catcher and one said a Barnes clone positionally.

Cool hopefully LA likes our guys, because I'd take either. I may even like Smith more because if we do keep JT I'd say his numbers still should play at 3rd. I like Lux and Estevez to in their system. Smith, Lux, Estevez and a Yamamoto type pitcher throw-in for Conley and Barraclough would be sweet.

[fish16]

Even before today, keeping barraclough was beyond a stupid move. After the Hand trade, it would be complete and utter malpractice.

[fish16]

I h ope they dont shy away from trading in the division because the braves would be a smart trading partner for bearclaw and maybe dietrich if we can get either Austin Riley or Christian Pache. Either way just go for the highest quality position player you can get. Yordan Alvarez and a lower level player for Barraclough and Dietrich also makes a ton of sense and would be a huge lefty power bat to add to the system.

[fish16]

marlins 2003 wild card clincher on FSflorida right now. So much fun to watch back. Also Miguel cabrera is a twig and Derrek Lee's tenure with the marlins was incredibly underrated.

[sports24/7]

Even before today, keeping barraclough was beyond a stupid move. After the Hand trade, it would be complete and utter malpractice.

What we’ve heard is they are asking a lot. That’s not deciding not to trade him. It’s consistent with the argument that this deal means they should trade him, because that argument suggests they should be able to get a lot for him. What they could have done was take a cheaper deal from the Indians and they probably could have closed the deal. That would have been a mistake. I think they’re taking the right course of action.

[fish16]

What we’ve heard is they are asking a lot. That’s not deciding not to trade him. It’s consistent with the argument that this deal means they should trade him, because that argument suggests they should be able to get a lot for him. What they could have done was take a cheaper deal from the Indians and they probably could have closed the deal. That would have been a mistake. I think they’re taking the right course of action.

I agree. Im not criticizing them yet. Just saying that if they dont deal him at the deadline it will be an enormous mistake. I'll wait until the deadline to pass judgment though. They desperately need to make the smart move and trade him for the best hitting prospect they can get. It would be a fantastic move to show that not they understand the relative value of certain positions or if we are the same old stupid type of front office of the past 15 years.

[lou]

I agree. Im not criticizing them yet. Just saying that if they dont deal him at the deadline it will be an enormous mistake. I'll wait until the deadline to pass judgment though. They desperately need to make the smart move and trade him for the best hitting prospect they can get. It would be a fantastic move to show that not they understand the relative value of certain positions or if we are the same old stupid type of front office of the past 15 years.

They could certainly use another SP that has high upside potential, i.e. a "top 100" guy.

Alcantara, Niedert, and C. Smith is probably the longterm SP core right now. Maybe someone else sneaks in there and works out like Guzman, Pablo, Gallen, or Richards, but they all look like backend starters and relievers to me (not a knock, just not starters). They should strive for more here, and then plop the free agent ace on top in 2021.

I'd be thrilled with a "McKenzie" for Barraclough. That's just as good as getting another stick.

[fish16]

They could certainly use another SP that has high upside potential, i.e. a "top 100" guy.

Alcantara, Niedert, and C. Smith is probably the longterm SP core right now. Maybe someone else sneaks in there and works out like Guzman, Pablo, Gallen, or Richards, but they all look like backend starters and relievers to me (not a knock, just not starters). They should strive for more here, and then plop the free agent ace on top in 2021.

I'd be thrilled with a "McKenzie" for Barraclough. That's just as good as getting another stick.

Agreed on mckenzie. IF we get a pitcher for Barraclough, Id need it to have the upside of a mckenzie. I think that we have a lot of SP depth in the system to the point where at least 5 will pan out and become quality starters eventually and we completely lack hitting depth, specifically infield hitting. I think the key for a barraclough deal needs to be to get the best prospect available rather than going for depth like we have done in trades like the Dee and Phelps trades. Maximize Barraclough having his best season and turn it into a 6 year controllable top prospect type guy. Getting a 2-3 WAR bat (i.e. not even a star) under team control for 6 years for Barraclough would be such a win for a rebuilding team, but specifically a rebuilding team with the amount of guys in our system who look like future relievers at worst anyways. Overall I wouldnt complain either way whether its a hitter or pitcher so long as they sell high, id just prefer to add an impact bat to the system if possible. I understand your viewpoint though.

[lou]

Agreed on mckenzie. IF we get a pitcher for Barraclough, Id need it to have the upside of a mckenzie. I think that we have a lot of SP depth in the system to the point where at least 5 will pan out and become quality starters eventually and we completely lack hitting depth, specifically infield hitting. I think the key for a barraclough deal needs to be to get the best prospect available rather than going for depth like we have done in trades like the Dee and Phelps trades. Maximize Barraclough having his best season and turn it into a 6 year controllable top prospect type guy. Getting a 2-3 WAR bat (i.e. not even a star) under team control for 6 years for Barraclough would be such a win for a rebuilding team, but specifically a rebuilding team with the amount of guys in our system who look like future relievers at worst anyways. Overall I wouldnt complain either way whether its a hitter or pitcher so long as they sell high, id just prefer to add an impact bat to the system if possible. I understand your viewpoint though.

It's really getting anything that fits into this:

C - ______
1B - _________
2B - Diaz
SS - _________
3B - Anderson
LF - Monte
CF - Brinson
RF - _________

SP - _______, ________, Alcantara, Neidert, Ca. Smith


They of course have plenty of guys who can surprise and develop into those blank lines, I'm sure 1-2 will and some above will fail, etc., but I don't consider the teams pitching depth to be in the rotation. It's in the future bullpen where all those 4/5 SP become good/great relievers (see Conley). I'm only "trusting" those 3 above to be 3/4 starters on a good team right now, and that's with a lot of hope and prayers.

We all agree here they need to go for broke with better names. I would say SP, C (assuming no Realmuto), and SS are the top 3 needs for an "oomph" player. It would be great if Barraclough and Realmuto got at least two of those, with the third maybe the top 2019 top 5 pick. As mentioned before, let that happened, spend some IFA, money for free agents in 2 years, get lucky on a few extra players, and you're in serious business.

[rmc523]

I agree. Im not criticizing them yet. Just saying that if they dont deal him at the deadline it will be an enormous mistake. I'll wait until the deadline to pass judgment though. They desperately need to make the smart move and trade him for the best hitting prospect they can get. It would be a fantastic move to show that not they understand the relative value of certain positions or if we are the same old stupid type of front office of the past 15 years.

Do you think they should make a deal just to make a deal, though?

[lou]

Do you think they should make a deal just to make a deal, though?

Not directed at me, but for discussions sake I 100% think they take the best deal possible for Barraclough, Dietrich, Ziegler, Castro, and Maybin.

Barraclough has a .158 BABIP, Dietrich and Zielger are having their best showings last 6 weeks or so, Castro they just need to cut the bucks, and Maybin is whatever. This is a max value situation for those first 3 so they need to move them right now. I'm not saying take "Telis" like they did for Dyson, you can't do that, but I suspect they will get a reasonable deal for Barraclough and Dietrich for guys at minimum Gallen level, maybe highlighted by a Niedert/Monte/Diaz level of overall prospect (80-120 range?). That's probably solid all things considered. Ziegler, Castro, and Maybin's returns are bonus lottery tickets if anything. Save the money.

Everyone else besides Prado/Chen (the unmoveables), they need something really good to make it worth their while, i.e. Realmuto, Bour, Straily, Urena, Rojas, Steckenrider, and Conley. I don't think their value changes much now to the winter, so there is no desperation.

A lot of hypotheticals, but I think that's my baseline. I'd aggressively shop everyone though besides Steckenrider and Conley, and Realmuto only if he turns down a megadeal.