2024 Game Thread

[lou]

Seeing if any of the AAAA guys can stick around at least gives something to watch besides hoping Sanchez and Burger (power is back now that he’s healthy) break out. Plus X’s rookie campaign of course

Given it’s also watching them strike out majority of the time lol

Totally. The team actually is showing a little life - just Burger being Burger, Edwards being superman, Bride is all of a sudden over an .800 OPS (analytics dont back, no one get excited), Bellozo is OK, Sanchez does hit very long HR which are fun, etc. It's something. I have high enough interest in seeing Otto, Bride, and Hensley show enough to be keeps for the 40 man roster and Bellozo shows he can be the team's 7th SP next year. TBH this would be really good for depth building for next year around everything else they have going on. They are trying the same with Hill and Pache as they need a right handed CF badly, but I have lower expectations with them versus Otto/Bride/Hensley being those annoying Rays types. The big picture interest is Cabrera staying healthy and becoming that ace he can be and Max getting his 2nd/3rd pitches together to be counted on for 130+ innings next year.

There is some foundational stuff going on for sure as we wait for Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Garrett, AND Weathers back. It's an entire massive shelved rotation and it's going to change things radically and quickly getting these guys.

[fish16]

I agree, the new ownership's problem is they simply don't spend. And on the rare occasions they do, they've overspent on mediocrity. (Garcia)

when you treat players like shit with service time manipulation, play in front of 10k every night, and have an owner that refuses to spend money, that is the only kinds of players who sign here. Even if we had money to spend, why on earth would a guy choose this franchise in its current form over say Philly, Chicago, NY, LA, etc. We're not trying obviously, but there is 0 reason why we would be appealing to a big time free agent who will always have other suitors. It's the reason we always sign only retreads coming off disastrous years like Anderson or guys like Garcia who are coming off big years that are unsustainable. It will be a problem until we get an owner who transforms this into not only a major league team, but also a major league organization. There is a reason NBA guys want to sign with the heat and it's not just because they are in miami, and even though the dolphins have been mediocre on the field, ross as an owner is top notch and treats the players great and has great facilities that are appealing to players.

These players sign not only with teams, but with overall organizations. We are not a major league run organization. regardless of what might be able to be developed on the field hopefully with this latest rebuild.

[nny]

Also going back to the Nick Gordon DFA

I remember and still can’t get over him saying the moon wasn’t real before the season started

Gordon in day games this year: .764 OPS

In night games: .529 OPS

The vendetta was real

[rmc523]

So they're not at the floor after trading Arraez, Jazz and Tanner Scott?

I think Lou's dead right that there's always going to be the hey-let's-go-to-the-game crowd (remember, not everyone is an hour+ commute from the ballpark) and we are extremely close to that.

The only piece left that can move the needle more is Sandy. Luzardo will not move the needle if traded.

If attendance was lower before, how could the current level be the floor?
I agree there will always be a “let’s go” crowd, but I think there’s still a hangover affect from last year’s success, and if the team does poorly again next year, I see it dropping.

[lou]

Bob Nightengale is saying Skip is a White Sox managerial target

Not that this matters much, but still

[Nick]

Vidal Brujan starting in RF tonight. That shit doesn’t need to be happening.

[lou]

when you treat players like shit with service time manipulation, play in front of 10k every night, and have an owner that refuses to spend money, that is the only kinds of players who sign here. Even if we had money to spend, why on earth would a guy choose this franchise in its current form over say Philly, Chicago, NY, LA, etc. We're not trying obviously, but there is 0 reason why we would be appealing to a big time free agent who will always have other suitors. It's the reason we always sign only retreads coming off disastrous years like Anderson or guys like Garcia who are coming off big years that are unsustainable. It will be a problem until we get an owner who transforms this into not only a major league team, but also a major league organization. There is a reason NBA guys want to sign with the heat and it's not just because they are in miami, and even though the dolphins have been mediocre on the field, ross as an owner is top notch and treats the players great and has great facilities that are appealing to players.

These players sign not only with teams, but with overall organizations. We are not a major league run organization. regardless of what might be able to be developed on the field hopefully with this latest rebuild.

I mean most of this I think is right but every team, every team, does service time manipulation calculations including via call ups, free agency has been BRUTAL for many guys (Snell, Chapman, Bellinger, Montgomery in particular) so there is a real possibility to step up and by the hero for "that" kind of guy (Is Adames in that bucket or not??? I'm not sure yet), and the last retreads one is because Bruce is cheap and won't spend money at all.

If we want a plant the flag comment - Adames will sign here equal money over 18+ other franchises IMO. Yes they can't compete with Phily/New york teams/LAD/Bos/Hou/CHC right now if they are the suitor..... but you better believe the Marlins are way more attractive than the White Sox and Angels using those cities you mentioned as comparables. Not even close, the Marlins are in a better position to win longterm with their players sooner and later than those dumpster fires. They would be straight cash grabs and nothing else is there. Miami is closer to the DR, and the lack of state income tax is likely worth several millions of dollars too. Equal money Seattle or Miami - he's picking Miami. Equal money San Francisco or Miami - he's picking Miami. Colorado? Miami. Arizona? Miami. Pittsburgh? Miami. Oakland? KC? Detroit? Cleveland? Tampa who ditched him already? Toronto. Miami Miami Miami Miami Miami Miami Miami.

It's Bruce. It's always Bruce. Give the guys the money on an easily projectable team and great city for a rich person, and it'll work itself out IMO. I would say, if the team did suck and didn't have this fleet of SP and Peter making overall smart bat moves which is easy to map and sell to folks, things would be different. But there is a lot of hope here with the SP, there is a lot of interest in these bats even if missing a true "Wyatt Langford" killer in the pipes, and that is an easy sell to a long term FA if Bruce finally lets them do that Werth-style deal. They'd have to lose out to like Boston who thinks Mayer is a 2B, and can then trade other guys for SP, and then they still have Grissom, Story, and no left handed arms. That's how they don't get him if they were to step up financially.

[lou]

Also for "Adames" and lets add "Kim" watch 2025:


Balt - Gunnar/Holliday
NYY - Volpe
Bos - Mayer/Rafaela/Story
Tam - C. Williams
Tor - Bichette? Also they suck and not gonna go big
Clev - Rocchio + cheap
Min - Correa/Lee
KC - Witt
Det - Sweeney, FV45 SS prospect (and Baez)
CHW - Montgomery probably starts there at first
Hou - Pena
Sea - Crawford + young/emerson
Texas - Seager
LAA - Neto
Oak - Wilson

Phil - Trea
ATL - Arcia + Nacho (their top bat prospect is a SS)
NYM - Lindor
Wash - Abrams
Miami - ______ with no payroll and an objectively exciting crop of SP and second level bats
MIL - Ortiz, Turang, and friends + cheap/smart
STL - Wynn
Pitt - Cruz
CHC - Swanson
Cin - EDLC/Matt McClain
LAD - M. Rojas and some close FV40s.... but Mookie?
Ari - Lawlar
SDP - Machado? Xander? Merrill? Tatis? Resign Kim?
SFG - Luciano and Fitzgerald is an interesting dude, but they could move guys around and want longterm bats
Col - Tovar



I mean how much more do the stars need to align to maybe get this guy at a reasonable deal? Adames, Kim, and M. Rojas are the top 3 FA. Somehow, only the Dodgers are in as bad shape at SS but oh Mookie can just play there too and they have $243m in payroll commitments so is Adames really needed here? They can trade a catcher for a young SS somewhere.


San Fran should resign Chapman for more, or Snell - its obviously clicking there for them and they have two interesting SS types already. This is a Rojas depth signing if they go SS. They have to miss on a lot of guys to get to Adames or Kim. I don't see this at all.

Padres whole team is SS besides Arraez. They can do it internally. And maybe Kim just resigns anyways. But they have huge payroll commitments and if they loose the whole FO may get fired.

Is Adames really what Detroit wants with Baez on the books still and Keith taking over 2B? I'm not sure this is their splurge move on their end but this is a maybe for sure as he would theoretically match around what they have as they have some big big time arms.

Is Atlanta a darkhorse, but they are losing Fried so arms? Strider is hurt? Its arms.



Bruce is frankly insane if he can't read the room and not let them grab Adames or Kim here. Detroit can get the other one and Dodgers can keep Rojas. SD and SFG are fine here. Low bidders league wide, Miami has top 1-3 motivation positionally in the league, massive payroll has been moved and even more so may be moved if Luzardo/Sandy get moved.

Hope is eternal, but I have a hard time not seeing them positioning for this given SS was neglected entirely in all of the moves and that makes -0- sense given what they have. It looks amazing on a league level for them to be thee suitor for both of them. Maybe its Kim not Adames, but that's about it here. Drive it home Peter.

[Namaste]

Stallings has an .832 OPS this year

[lou]

Stallings has an .832 OPS this year

I raise you, Stowers is 2/24 with 13K to start with the Marlins. Free Norby.

[fish16]

not that im breaking any news here but thomas white seems to be establishing himself as far and away our best prospect. He's doing things at 19 in A+ ball that are seriously impressive. and its not just numbers, he passes the eye test too. We had that 1 spring training game that was a prospect showcase and the ball flies out of that kids hand and it looks like he's not overly exerting himself. Very smooth delivery and velocity. He has spent his first full year between A Jupiter and A+ beloit and he has gotten better as he got to a higher level in beloit. He had walk issues in Jupiter to begin the year walking 17 in 34 innings, and in beloit he only has 15 in 42 innings. To not only go up to A+ ball at 19, but pitch better than he was at the lower level, is a great indicator of his trajectoryr. He's going to be very high on top 100 lists over the next year.

Body type reminds me of a better, less sweaty, less arrested, scott olsen.

[lou]

Morlando out the year. Are we cursed?

Yes we are cursed.

[lou]

not that im breaking any news here but thomas white seems to be establishing himself as far and away our best prospect. He's doing things at 19 in A+ ball that are seriously impressive. and its not just numbers, he passes the eye test too. We had that 1 spring training game that was a prospect showcase and the ball flies out of that kids hand and it looks like he's not overly exerting himself. Very smooth delivery and velocity. He has spent his first full year between A Jupiter and A+ beloit and he has gotten better as he got to a higher level in beloit. He had walk issues in Jupiter to begin the year walking 17 in 34 innings, and in beloit he only has 15 in 42 innings. To not only go up to A+ ball at 19, but pitch better than he was at the lower level, is a great indicator of his trajectoryr. He's going to be very high on top 100 lists over the next year.

Body type reminds me of a better, less sweaty, less arrested, scott olsen.

Fangraphs midseason - As an underclassman, White was sitting in the low-90s, with a snapdragon breaking ball and a great physical foundation on which to layer velocity. He unleashed even more heat at PG National in 2022 (lots of 93-96 mph) and then shut things down for the bulk of showcase season, with scouts told it was a personal decision. Leading up to the 2023 draft, White looked more muscular and mature in the body and held mid-90s velocity throughout the spring, albeit under a very conservative workload. The Marlins gave him just over $4 million as one of two first-round prep arms taken last year, the second straight draft where Miami coaxed a high school pitcher away from Vanderbilt. White's stuff was simply too good for Low-A and he was promoted to High-A Beloit after just eight 2024 starts. He's sitting 94-96 with roughly average life, which is more than enough to pave over Florida State League hitters. White also has a plus low-80s slider that bites very late and darts to his glove side. It looks like it has more lateral sweep to it now than it did in high school. The components of White's delivery are often ill-timed; his arm stroke tends to be a little late and White had scattershot command as a high schooler. The way his fastball plays gives him some margin for error in this regard, but despite a fairly encouraging walk rate so far as a pro, to the eye these issues haven't been remedied. This impacts White's secondary pitch consistency, especially that of his changeup. It will probably be a while before White is challenged and forced to sharpen his command. He has impact starter upside and carries with him the risks typical of a volatile teenage pitching prospect.


I think there is some concern here but it might not show until AA/AAA is what the scouts are saying. He is kicking complete ass though. Prospect wise, I think Kyle Harrison (on a volatility level) is a comparable. Harrison was an amazing prospect (he ended up top 20-30 range) and is starting to figure it out this year, but huge control concerns and RP risk. Which still exist. He's throwing softer to compensate for that. Harrison is really interesting with what's happening.

White though is an easy floor prospect # 2 in the Marlins system and floor trending to being a back third top 100 guy soon if not the offseason. The best thing with White is he can spend the next 2 1/2 full seasons in the minors and work everything out as the Marlins have so much arm depth. Kim did do some things right.

[lou]

Smart claim for a project - X. Curry (CLE). He was a FV45 in 2022 and dropped to a FV40 in 2023. 5th starter upside. When I was on the whole, let's trade for Rosario for SS thing pre-2022, he was a 2nd or 3rd guy I was personally thinking about in that trade. Right handed 5th SP type. This is the type of project arm the Rays turn into a quality bulk starter/RP.

This is one of those moves when some "real SP" trades happen in the offseason, the dots are connected to them building up the inventory depth starters that have some upside. I think Curry and Bellozo could easily be the team's 7th and 8th SP next year and be pretty OK at it. We'll see. This is if nothing more, an upgrade over Tyler who just isn't very good.


I like this and the McMillion move to start sorting out right handers for cheap next year. This is some good bottom roster churning. A breath of fresh arm versus Kim in this regards.

[fish16]

finally got my ballys back and within minutes, i see a back to back by burger and bride. to start, burger is a really good fucking dh. If thats his role for the next few years, plug his ass in and lets go. if he can play first at an average or above average level, even better. for bride, i said it when we got him without knowing what he brought that he has an interesting profile. He seems really interesting moving forward. obviously not a big piece, but it feels like with his approach, he can be some sort of piece.