2024 Game Thread

[rmc523]

Didn’t gabe Kepler wear out his welcome very quickly in Philly and then have it not end very well in San Fran?

Yup, but unlike here, those organizations actually care about winning.

[fish16]

braxton garrett pitched great yesterday in AAA. I cant imagine he has more than 1 more rehab start before he's back. Cabrera has had way too many walks but he's at least made several rehab outings in AAA so far so he should be back before too long as well. it's been a completely awful start but this team isnt 1-9 bad. I think they will pick it up in the next few weeks even with the harder schedule but this team still is very far away from competing. it's pretty unbelievable how much this offense depends on arraez hitting well. When he's struggling this lineup is completely incompetent.

The guys in the rotation coming back will have a trickle down effect on the bullpen hopefully. For god sakes they need to stop the rotating non major leaguer last spot in the bullpen. They did it for months last year and it's continued. If that's hoeing, fine, but Andriese, Gutierrez, Emmanuel, etc types rotating daily is just horrific. Also, sixto being completely incapable of pitching multiple days is not very valuable out of the bullpen. He's pitched the 3rd fewest innings on the team and that includes Andreise and Emmanuel. Declan cronin pitched more than him and he's been gone for a week.

[fish16]

Fortes and Betancourt are 1-28 so far this season. Perhaps is time we stop fucking around and get a real long term catcher.

[fish16]

jazz already has 8 walks this year in 34 ab's. He had just 26 last year in 352 ab's.

[lou]

Fortes and Betancourt are 1-28 so far this season. Perhaps is time we stop fucking around and get a real long term catcher.

Rafaela was extended today. So Boston has done him and Bello, and some more may be on the way (Casas? Houck? Crawford? Grissom? Mayer? Duran?). Basically Arraez makes a lot of sense for Teel as a centerpiece as they are deflecting costs to be able to afford Arraez (who won't also be too expensive in the grand scheme of things, $100-110m for 5/6 years similar to B. Reynolds). Boston has to find a catcher then, but win now baby. And they can afford Jansen....

Maybe Pittsburgh with Endy or Mariners with Ford would also want Arraez as other options.

[fish16]

Rafaela was extended today. So Boston has done him and Bello, and some more may be on the way (Casas? Houck? Crawford? Grissom? Mayer? Duran?). Basically Arraez makes a lot of sense for Teel as a centerpiece as they are deflecting costs to be able to afford Arraez (who won't also be too expensive in the grand scheme of things, $100-110m for 5/6 years similar to B. Reynolds). Boston has to find a catcher then, but win now baby. And they can afford Jansen....

Maybe Pittsburgh with Endy or Mariners with Ford would also want Arraez as other options.

I just dont see how you trade Arraez. He's not 30 years old, the guy turns 27 tomorrow, and it's not like his game is built off speed or defense, he's just a flat out great hitter on one of the worst offenses in baseball. He's not going to get 100+ million on the open market, and he's also not going to get you a top 30 prospect in all of baseball. Find a common ground and sign the fucking guy and let him be your building block offensively during the rebuild like Altuve was for the astros. Luzardo and Scott, sure, but Arraez they should sign. They are not going to be bad enough to rebuild for 4 years and win 50-70 games and rebuild through the draft. They should rebuild on the fly and finally lock up a building block. Jazz probably wouldnt be a huge deal either. Make a fucking statement and sign someone. I dont know how they can continue to sit there and watch these teams sign guy after guy super early and show some confidence and vision in the player and get a guy at a huge discount for their prime years. Almost the entire braves roster is built this way.

I'd lock Eury up long term immediately as well even with the injury. Give him some money and that will almost assuredly save us a shit ton down the line. But you would have to have any kind of vision to do that so we wont do it.

[Todd]

I'd argue, as great as he is, the Marlins overpaid for Arraez. It probably should have been the Twins adding in extra pieces than the Fish.

[fish16]

I'd argue, as great as he is, the Marlins overpaid for Arraez. It probably should have been the Twins adding in extra pieces than the Fish.

arraez had 3 years of team control, pablo had 2. Also, pablo has an extensive injury history. And Jose salas had one of the worst years in all of the minor leagues last year. It was a win-win trade.

[fish16]

Garrett and Cabrera each starting on thursday/friday and throwing 85-90 pitches and 5 innings. Unless they reinjure themselves you would have to think that means they are built up and will be back after that game.

[Namaste]

Luzardo has given up two 3-run HRs in one inning. Neither of them on fastballs. Trade value cratering

[lou]

Luzardo has given up two 3-run HRs in one inning. Neither of them on fastballs. Trade value cratering

Start or two probably doesn't matter, especially with the 2 extra years of control, but NYY (along with of course Baltimore) is one of the best 3-4 places to move him too so that is a bit disappointing they bombed him.

What a great season.

[lou]

I'd argue, as great as he is, the Marlins overpaid for Arraez. It probably should have been the Twins adding in extra pieces than the Fish.

I'll just remind everyone on day 1, Lee and I were the only people who said the Marlins overpaid with the 2 prospects. Of course, it appears we were wrong that Chourio might be the better prospect of the two so no one got this one right, but I feel you. Ultimately, not a huge deal though. But Pablo did get better which is disappointing.

They needed to extend Arraez the second they got him. They are fools for not doing so.

[lou]

I just dont see how you trade Arraez. He's not 30 years old, the guy turns 27 tomorrow, and it's not like his game is built off speed or defense, he's just a flat out great hitter on one of the worst offenses in baseball. He's not going to get 100+ million on the open market, and he's also not going to get you a top 30 prospect in all of baseball. Find a common ground and sign the fucking guy and let him be your building block offensively during the rebuild like Altuve was for the astros. Luzardo and Scott, sure, but Arraez they should sign. They are not going to be bad enough to rebuild for 4 years and win 50-70 games and rebuild through the draft. They should rebuild on the fly and finally lock up a building block. Jazz probably wouldnt be a huge deal either. Make a fucking statement and sign someone. I dont know how they can continue to sit there and watch these teams sign guy after guy super early and show some confidence and vision in the player and get a guy at a huge discount for their prime years. Almost the entire braves roster is built this way.

I'd lock Eury up long term immediately as well even with the injury. Give him some money and that will almost assuredly save us a shit ton down the line. But you would have to have any kind of vision to do that so we wont do it.

Kyle Teel isn't a top 30 prospect BTW. Arraez will need $100-110m to do an extension just like B. Reynolds, or why wouldn't he try FA and test his luck. He is the right age as you note. They should trade Arraez ASAP and use the money they would be spending on BALS on guys for next year.

I've done this math already for Jazz too, especially after the Tovar extension. Jazz is probably a 5/$65m range deal with 2 club options that would bump it over $100m. They should explore that, and any other opportunistic deal they can do, but frankly, they can wait on Eury/Cabrera/Max/Rogers/Puk/Weathers and see what happens. The Arraez and Luzardo ship has sailed, Garrett and Burger aren't buy-out types based on who they are as a soft tosser/older age, and maybe Sanchez makes sense if they set the world on fire this year but even then probably not.

I'd say Jazz is the best bet right now, followed by Cabrera who would be the deal you want - buying in before the breakout. I'm not opposed at all if the price is right. Bello is getting $50m+ guaranteed. He has been better than Cabrera statistically so far, so maybe you can get away with Cabrera for $30m something and expensive options. Might be worth it.

[fish16]

Why would the red sox trade kyle teel when they dont have a C currently and have nothing else in the system. That is where these scenarios fall apart. Youre trading a 3.5 WAR best pure hitter in baseball on a team that has about 7 other holes offensively, and the best youre getting back is a hope and a prayer that youre getting the right guy. And you're not getting any of the "Sure fire" guys that would make that trade worth it. You have 0 long term commitments, sign Arraez, fill a hole for the next 5 years, and deal from the depth of pitching for further hitting reinforcements. You think you're solving something when in reality it is highly likely you are just making this team worse not only now but in the future as well.

Deal from the pitching, focus on drafting well the next 3 years, and rebuild on the fly. They will not be bad enough to tank like the Astros did and like the orioles did because our pitching is too good. So lock up the 1 piece you know is all star caliber now, and try to intelligently add other long term hitting pieces on the fly like you did with burger and hope to get lucky or develop well somewhere else to get that major piece in the lineup that we are desperately missing.

[lou]

Why would the red sox trade kyle teel when they dont have a C currently and have nothing else in the system. That is where these scenarios fall apart. Youre trading a 3.5 WAR best pure hitter in baseball on a team that has about 7 other holes offensively, and the best youre getting back is a hope and a prayer that youre getting the right guy. And you're not getting any of the "Sure fire" guys that would make that trade worth it. You have 0 long term commitments, sign Arraez, fill a hole for the next 5 years, and deal from the depth of pitching for further hitting reinforcements. You think you're solving something when in reality it is highly likely you are just making this team worse not only now but in the future as well.

Deal from the pitching, focus on drafting well the next 3 years, and rebuild on the fly. They will not be bad enough to tank like the Astros did and like the orioles did because our pitching is too good. So lock up the 1 piece you know is all star caliber now, and try to intelligently add other long term hitting pieces on the fly like you did with burger and hope to get lucky or develop well somewhere else to get that major piece in the lineup that we are desperately missing.

Because the Red Sox want to win which I understand is a foreign concept for Marlins fans and teams that want to win will move players that are 2+ years away for players that can help them now and they can keep. The Red Sox will you know, sign guys in FA to plug holes rather than hope Jonah Bride or DFA waiver pickups work out as Plan A. They have money for the Jansens or whoever out there. I don't know what to tell you here. They aren't signing Arraez for $100m+ (which will be the going rate similar to Bryan Reynolds) in a year they are about to lose 90+ games despite how bad the bat situation looks like. Kim messed this one up not giving him an extension immediately when she got him. He's going to be too expensive, and especially for a guy who is projecting off 2B and is an odd fit 1B/DH type as there is no power and teams will want that power. Someone like Teel is a best case scenario for him. Someone like Roman Anthony won't be moved for him absent Arraez just hits 20 bombs before the ASB.

And we're kicking the can 3 years down the road now? They should focus on drafting every year? The rebuild on the fly is very simple - you trade out as much money as you can (Arraez, Luzardo, Scott, Bell, maybe one of Garrett/Cabrera/Rogers/Puk if you get a great deal for them), get rid of the bad money in the offseason (Bethancourt, DLC, Gordon, Chargois), and from moving all of that, hopefully you're getting back 3-4 core players and a bunch more Edwards/Sasaki/Maldonado kind of guys that some will work out, and you have reduced your payroll to $60m in 2025, and reduced 2024 payroll by 10s of millions on top of that, and then maybe that's a situation Bruce will let them spend on something more than Tim Anderson to actually improve the team. Then on top of that, you do what we all agree - extend Jazz, Cabrera, maybe Rogers/Puk/Max/Sanchez if they look great this year. That'll impact future payrolls. This isn't rocket science and they need more cheaper young talent, and turning Luzardo and Arraez into 2-3 top prospects and flyers + opening up $25m+ in 2025 payroll (extremely important!) which could be Adames straight up (and probably less), is a step back for 2024 and major step forward in 2025 having 2 guys turn into 6+ for the same money. That's what they need to do even if we like Arraez and Luzardo, which we do. Scorch earth of all the money besides Sandy, and the 2025 team will look good on paper if they don't't mess up the trades and Bruce lets them spend to 2023 levels.