2024 Game Thread

[Nick]

the team not giving a flying fuck about competing any time in the next 4 years by trading away the only quality bats they had in an already terrible lineup in Arraez and soon to be Jazz as well is the one trying to chase away the few members left here, not me for acknowledging reality and not wasting everyones time with novels that include 5 fucking extensions when they clearly wont give anyone a single extension. If you want to talk about how the team can possibly turn it around, the way to do so is to talk about their remaining quality pieces trade value and which 18 year old guy they will draft on sunday, which is where this is heading in the next few weeks through next trade deadline.

So what can we do to chase you away from this board?

[Namaste]

So what can we do to chase you away from this board?

Seconded.

[fish16]

So what can we do to chase you away from this board?

you can put me on ignore as ive said 25 times. i dont really give a shit. if you want to solely see lou post 9 page fantasy novels about the 50 unrealistic moves we can make to contend soon and see namaste post 0 substance posts about the on field production of a team that is 29 games under .500 in july, that is completely in your own control.

If not, i'm going to continue to post about how they just decided to punt on the next 3 years at least when they have one of the most talented rotations in baseball next year. They went from circling 2025 to circling 2028, and that's a fucking disgrace. They dont have many die hard fans to begin with, and if they think that punting on the next 3 years is going to do anything besides decimate an already decimated fanbase even further, they are morons.

or do we want to bring back the conversations about how this team just needed to sign michael lorenzon, michael a taylor, and amed rosario in late spring to keep us in the mix when our rotation was clearly going to be decimated all year. Those 3 and their combined 1.1 WAR would have surely kept us afloat.

or maybe we can talk about how our next manager was .500 or worse in all but 1 year of his 6 year managerial career

or possibly we can go back and romanticize those 9 sixto sanchez spring innings in a much simpler time.

[fish16]

pretty wild that the 3 great outfielders we had 7 years ago each are still kicking and 2 of them are putting up MVP type numbers still all these years later. We were talking a year ago about dealing garcia for ozuna in a swap of terrible contracts, and now ozuna is on pace for 43 homers and 134 rbi while garcia is out of baseball but still collecting the biggest paychecks on our team i think outside of bell who will be gone soon as well.

[lou]

I’m done as far as actual support. I won’t be watching or attending anytime soon, and will shift to more of a bandwagon type fan aside from following on here - I’m over it. it’s just a waste of time to devote anything to this organization when we have an owner that clearly could care less about the team. Until Bruce sells, it’ll be rinse and repeat every few years we’ll get a new GM because the plan didn’t work and over and over with forever mediocrity.

I'm with you mostly. It is a casual interest and the other teams in town - all of them with the Canes, Panthers, Dolphins, and Heat - have the front office set up for success (or in the case of the Heat have proven it so they get years of a benefit of a doubt). Why bother when the product is so bad and everyone else you can say nice things about?

But I will say, it is a new baseball front office and they obviously spent a lot on infrastructure with new hires year so maybe internally it was worse than we all know.. They obviously know literally the entire fan base hates them now and more bombs are coming if Sandy, Luzardo, and Jazz are moved. This will be a very telling offseason to see what the Marlins do. I would be shocked if its entirely moving guys for A ball trades + Anderson, Bethancourt, Gordon, and Brujan level moves again, so maybe we start seeing what they actually want to do and just went a very - VERY- bad ways about it year 1. The hope they grew up fast and will have a better year 2 is literally the most positive thing one can say about them I think which is very sad.

[fish16]

xavier edwards should be leading off every day when jazz is dealt. he can hit. he should be playing 2b though, he is not a SS. He's a more impactful player than otto lopez at 2b. Lopez doesnt bring anything offensively. Doesnt walk, no power, he makes contact but not good contact. He's a decent bench guy i guess, but he''s never going to hit enough to be a starter, especially for this team that desperately needs bats.

[fish16]

when tanner scott is traded, they should be focusing on 1 guy, not a series of players in return. He's not going to have a crazy return as a free agent to be, so find a guy the scouts like and go after him. this is obviously on a smaller scale, but think Chapman to the cubs for gleyber torres. I think Norby from the orioles for Scott makes too much sense for both sides.

[lou]

or do we want to bring back the conversations about how this team just needed to sign michael lorenzon, michael a taylor, and amed rosario in late spring to keep us in the mix when our rotation was clearly going to be decimated all year. Those 3 and their combined 1.1 WAR would have surely kept us afloat.

To provide some constructive criticism, this is where you lose people with the dramatics. No one was projecting them to be 40-50 starts down, nearly half the season to date, from their core starting pitchers in mid-July in spring training even if some guys were banged up entering the year (we were figuring Eury, Cabrera, and Garrett would be out 2-4+ starts each and they could have strategically used Max to eat a few of those starts while maintaining the service time and using off days to minimize the need for Hoeing as a spot, etc.). Saying clearly decimated is to me frustration of how bad the team is. I don't recall any Marlins fans expecting 1/2 the teams main starts to vanish in spring training (and that's ignoring Sandy who we did know about).

Secondarily, the idea of the team making veteran depth signings that have some plausible upside accomplishes a few things - like trying to get better, establishing a baseball culture, and doing anything for the fans. On paper, Rosario, Lorenzen, and Taylor are more legitimate MLB players with larger upside than the Rodderys, Brujans, Gordons, and Garcias, as well as Anderson who indeed was cooked and always a bad idea for that price. Making smarter decisions - even if they ultimately aren't too impactful and minor - is something we should cheer for as eventually, all the smarter decisions add up into a better organizational situation. They have to start somewhere. What happened is, they made poorer decisions with Anderson, keeping Garcia, and Munoz/Guitterez/McCaughan/depth signing SP, and the team is suffering for it. I don't think the snark criticism of "its only 1.1 WAR" is as powerful as you think it is because they probably replace Anderson, Garcia, and all the fringe SP (around -3 WAR. That's a negative and yes its that much) with those guys and it only would have cost around $4-5m more (the math works here eliminating Anderson's salary and minimum prices for replacement SP). So we're talking about the team probably has 4 more wins for spending an extra $4-5m versus what they actually did. Four wins in mid-July for $4-5m more dollars is a super duper star level baseball player level of production and would make/break certain team's seasons. Again, making smarter decisions across the board can in the aggregate make a big impact, and that's what a team with a cheaper owner needs to do in every roster spot. And yes 4 wins means shit to this team with how bad they are, but I would still want those decisions to be made at every level so when they are good, those 4 wins are obtained. The front office needs to show they can make those calls IMO and they whiffed in year 1. The Rays have been very good at this of course and this is what Bruce bought into theoretically.

So now take it further, you'd have 4 more wins right now and they'd easily be able to trade Rosario (batting .303!, .788 OPS vs LHP!) this month to a contender's bench or platoon role, Lorenzen has a 3.52 era so even with the ugly xFIP he has, someone is taking him with his track record of solid innings being eaten for a FV40 outside their top 20-30 prospects and while that may not be too interesting of a player, do that trade 5-7 times and eventually you will hit on something like a solid middle reliever like Cronin or Faucher or gasp, DLC, and Taylor is a little more problematic but if they ate payroll someone may take him as a bench defender with his track record. Also you shed payroll this way more than likely, so this extra $4-5m spent on day 1 lowers to maybe an extra $2-3m. Or who cares - you spent a little money and tried to make a better product for your fans, brought in some more veterans so clubhouse vibes are better in March and April, which helps set the tone for not just this year but future years. It's actually kind of incredible how much better this team would be with Rosario, Lorenzen, and Taylor versus their preferred choices of Anderson, Garcia, and AAAA SP. Big picture, if they made these 3 smarter depth signing moves which were very very obvious day 1, it's very arguable they'd have at least 3 more wins and be getting two more FV40s slotting into their top 20-35 prospects or so when at least 2 of those guys were traded, and the overall cost for winning 4 games and getting two top 25-30 prospects - $2.5 million. What a steal. You spend that $2.5m all day. And *THAT* is why Bruce Sherman sucks as I strongly imagine this was a bottom line decision to not get guys of those ilk/allow Bendix to DFA Garcia, because even if we don't like Bendix, no one professionally in baseball at that level is this stupid. And if Bendix is, fuck our lives. All roads lead to Bruce here for me - and this is a point all of us agree on so no one should be constantly sniping people like you do to bring this full circle.

So big picture, I think you should channel your frustration in other ways because we all probably 90% agree on everything bad with this team, but even just popping in for the first time in awhile, you're still being a message board warrior. I respectively say, chill out and just make a full reset in approach. We can all be miserable with the Marlins, but we don't have to be dickheads about it.

[lou]

xavier edwards should be leading off every day when jazz is dealt. he can hit. he should be playing 2b though, he is not a SS. He's a more impactful player than otto lopez at 2b. Lopez doesnt bring anything offensively. Doesnt walk, no power, he makes contact but not good contact. He's a decent bench guy i guess, but he''s never going to hit enough to be a starter, especially for this team that desperately needs bats.

100% agree. Frankly, we should pencil them in as the IF backups for years as that is probably what they are. Which would honestly be fine IMO.

[lou]

when tanner scott is traded, they should be focusing on 1 guy, not a series of players in return. He's not going to have a crazy return as a free agent to be, so find a guy the scouts like and go after him. this is obviously on a smaller scale, but think Chapman to the cubs for gleyber torres. I think Norby from the orioles for Scott makes too much sense for both sides.

100% agree. I think Norby is a top 5 name for him for sure.

Will throw out another - Nick Yorke (BOS).

[fish16]

100% agree. I think Norby is a top 5 name for him for sure.

Will throw out another - Nick Yorke (BOS).

i think the dodgers make a ton of sense for scott as well because they need lefty reliever help, but i dont see a great prospect fit there. outside of their top prospect rushing who likely wouldnt be dealt, the next group of guys are all pitchers. I'd like Cartaya as a buy low guy but for scott that doesnt feel like enough.

Could also see them continuing the trend of a 3+ year rebuild and getting the 18 year old Joendry vargas, who was one of the top international guys last year.

I doubt bendix was part of the rays at that point, but if you remember they dealt david price to the tigers way back when and went after an 18 year old willy adames. It would fit in with the rest of the moves they have made.

[fish16]

yankees are rumored to want jazz. I could see them trying for something like roderick arias, who is an 18 year old in rookie ball but what the top international prospect a few years ago, plus agustin ramirez who is a 10-20 ranked prospect in their system but seems like an MLB ready C option. He isnt really the type of C the rays type of guys like, which is bad hitters and good defenders. Agustin is a really solid hitter but not really a defender. Maybe a future change to an automated strike zone changes their philosophy.

[fish16]

100% agree. Frankly, we should pencil them in as the IF backups for years as that is probably what they are. Which would honestly be fine IMO.

i think edwards has the pure hitting ability and good enough speed and tremendous plate discipline to be a starting caliber 2b if the defense is average at 2b. he clearly isnt a SS by the metrics.

[fish16]

Not breaking any news about how bad our offense is but i just saw we have i think the 11th lowest ERA in wins in baseball history. this offense is historically bad and is only going to get worse once jazz is gone. It's just inexcusable that if they were truly determined to fully rebuild that they didnt do it last offseason and deal arraez and luzardo especially during the winter.

[lou]

i think the dodgers make a ton of sense for scott as well because they need lefty reliever help, but i dont see a great prospect fit there. outside of their top prospect rushing who likely wouldnt be dealt, the next group of guys are all pitchers. I'd like Cartaya as a buy low guy but for scott that doesnt feel like enough.

Could also see them continuing the trend of a 3+ year rebuild and getting the 18 year old Joendry vargas, who was one of the top international guys last year.

I doubt bendix was part of the rays at that point, but if you remember they dealt david price to the tigers way back when and went after an 18 year old willy adames. It would fit in with the rest of the moves they have made.

100% agree with this point, but regarding the Dodgers, they are the kind of team who will up the price and get Luzardo in a deal. They have the juice for Bendix to make that move and save face now. Basically, I'm not convinced Luzardo isn't moved if he is trending healthy mid-August/early September with 2 control years and can see a scenario someone like the Dodgers (or Orioles) who can pay 95+ cents on the dollar and not give AF swoop in with those big(ger) names you mention and get a package out of this of both of them. Limited risk longterm, potentially huge, massive short term to get a guy some other teams may shy away injury wise but they jump in the pool to "just win baby."

It's gonna be interesting if nothing less. I do hope they target summer 2026 players at latest versus lower level guys for "piece 1" back in every deal. We shall see.