Originally posted by fish16
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Originally posted by Nick View Post
So what can we do to chase you away from this board?
If not, i'm going to continue to post about how they just decided to punt on the next 3 years at least when they have one of the most talented rotations in baseball next year. They went from circling 2025 to circling 2028, and that's a fucking disgrace. They dont have many die hard fans to begin with, and if they think that punting on the next 3 years is going to do anything besides decimate an already decimated fanbase even further, they are morons.
or do we want to bring back the conversations about how this team just needed to sign michael lorenzon, michael a taylor, and amed rosario in late spring to keep us in the mix when our rotation was clearly going to be decimated all year. Those 3 and their combined 1.1 WAR would have surely kept us afloat.
or maybe we can talk about how our next manager was .500 or worse in all but 1 year of his 6 year managerial career
or possibly we can go back and romanticize those 9 sixto sanchez spring innings in a much simpler time.Last edited by fish16; 07-11-2024, 03:59 PM.
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pretty wild that the 3 great outfielders we had 7 years ago each are still kicking and 2 of them are putting up MVP type numbers still all these years later. We were talking a year ago about dealing garcia for ozuna in a swap of terrible contracts, and now ozuna is on pace for 43 homers and 134 rbi while garcia is out of baseball but still collecting the biggest paychecks on our team i think outside of bell who will be gone soon as well.Last edited by fish16; 07-11-2024, 04:20 PM.
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Originally posted by rmc523 View Post
I’m done as far as actual support. I won’t be watching or attending anytime soon, and will shift to more of a bandwagon type fan aside from following on here - I’m over it. it’s just a waste of time to devote anything to this organization when we have an owner that clearly could care less about the team. Until Bruce sells, it’ll be rinse and repeat every few years we’ll get a new GM because the plan didn’t work and over and over with forever mediocrity.
But I will say, it is a new baseball front office and they obviously spent a lot on infrastructure with new hires year so maybe internally it was worse than we all know.. They obviously know literally the entire fan base hates them now and more bombs are coming if Sandy, Luzardo, and Jazz are moved. This will be a very telling offseason to see what the Marlins do. I would be shocked if its entirely moving guys for A ball trades + Anderson, Bethancourt, Gordon, and Brujan level moves again, so maybe we start seeing what they actually want to do and just went a very - VERY- bad ways about it year 1. The hope they grew up fast and will have a better year 2 is literally the most positive thing one can say about them I think which is very sad.
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xavier edwards should be leading off every day when jazz is dealt. he can hit. he should be playing 2b though, he is not a SS. He's a more impactful player than otto lopez at 2b. Lopez doesnt bring anything offensively. Doesnt walk, no power, he makes contact but not good contact. He's a decent bench guy i guess, but he''s never going to hit enough to be a starter, especially for this team that desperately needs bats.Last edited by fish16; 07-12-2024, 08:18 AM.
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when tanner scott is traded, they should be focusing on 1 guy, not a series of players in return. He's not going to have a crazy return as a free agent to be, so find a guy the scouts like and go after him. this is obviously on a smaller scale, but think Chapman to the cubs for gleyber torres. I think Norby from the orioles for Scott makes too much sense for both sides.Last edited by fish16; 07-12-2024, 08:37 AM.
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Originally posted by fish16 View Post
or do we want to bring back the conversations about how this team just needed to sign michael lorenzon, michael a taylor, and amed rosario in late spring to keep us in the mix when our rotation was clearly going to be decimated all year. Those 3 and their combined 1.1 WAR would have surely kept us afloat.
Secondarily, the idea of the team making veteran depth signings that have some plausible upside accomplishes a few things - like trying to get better, establishing a baseball culture, and doing anything for the fans. On paper, Rosario, Lorenzen, and Taylor are more legitimate MLB players with larger upside than the Rodderys, Brujans, Gordons, and Garcias, as well as Anderson who indeed was cooked and always a bad idea for that price. Making smarter decisions - even if they ultimately aren't too impactful and minor - is something we should cheer for as eventually, all the smarter decisions add up into a better organizational situation. They have to start somewhere. What happened is, they made poorer decisions with Anderson, keeping Garcia, and Munoz/Guitterez/McCaughan/depth signing SP, and the team is suffering for it. I don't think the snark criticism of "its only 1.1 WAR" is as powerful as you think it is because they probably replace Anderson, Garcia, and all the fringe SP (around -3 WAR. That's a negative and yes its that much) with those guys and it only would have cost around $4-5m more (the math works here eliminating Anderson's salary and minimum prices for replacement SP). So we're talking about the team probably has 4 more wins for spending an extra $4-5m versus what they actually did. Four wins in mid-July for $4-5m more dollars is a super duper star level baseball player level of production and would make/break certain team's seasons. Again, making smarter decisions across the board can in the aggregate make a big impact, and that's what a team with a cheaper owner needs to do in every roster spot. And yes 4 wins means shit to this team with how bad they are, but I would still want those decisions to be made at every level so when they are good, those 4 wins are obtained. The front office needs to show they can make those calls IMO and they whiffed in year 1. The Rays have been very good at this of course and this is what Bruce bought into theoretically.
So now take it further, you'd have 4 more wins right now and they'd easily be able to trade Rosario (batting .303!, .788 OPS vs LHP!) this month to a contender's bench or platoon role, Lorenzen has a 3.52 era so even with the ugly xFIP he has, someone is taking him with his track record of solid innings being eaten for a FV40 outside their top 20-30 prospects and while that may not be too interesting of a player, do that trade 5-7 times and eventually you will hit on something like a solid middle reliever like Cronin or Faucher or gasp, DLC, and Taylor is a little more problematic but if they ate payroll someone may take him as a bench defender with his track record. Also you shed payroll this way more than likely, so this extra $4-5m spent on day 1 lowers to maybe an extra $2-3m. Or who cares - you spent a little money and tried to make a better product for your fans, brought in some more veterans so clubhouse vibes are better in March and April, which helps set the tone for not just this year but future years. It's actually kind of incredible how much better this team would be with Rosario, Lorenzen, and Taylor versus their preferred choices of Anderson, Garcia, and AAAA SP. Big picture, if they made these 3 smarter depth signing moves which were very very obvious day 1, it's very arguable they'd have at least 3 more wins and be getting two more FV40s slotting into their top 20-35 prospects or so when at least 2 of those guys were traded, and the overall cost for winning 4 games and getting two top 25-30 prospects - $2.5 million. What a steal. You spend that $2.5m all day. And *THAT* is why Bruce Sherman sucks as I strongly imagine this was a bottom line decision to not get guys of those ilk/allow Bendix to DFA Garcia, because even if we don't like Bendix, no one professionally in baseball at that level is this stupid. And if Bendix is, fuck our lives. All roads lead to Bruce here for me - and this is a point all of us agree on so no one should be constantly sniping people like you do to bring this full circle.
So big picture, I think you should channel your frustration in other ways because we all probably 90% agree on everything bad with this team, but even just popping in for the first time in awhile, you're still being a message board warrior. I respectively say, chill out and just make a full reset in approach. We can all be miserable with the Marlins, but we don't have to be dickheads about it.
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Originally posted by fish16 View Postxavier edwards should be leading off every day when jazz is dealt. he can hit. he should be playing 2b though, he is not a SS. He's a more impactful player than otto lopez at 2b. Lopez doesnt bring anything offensively. Doesnt walk, no power, he makes contact but not good contact. He's a decent bench guy i guess, but he''s never going to hit enough to be a starter, especially for this team that desperately needs bats.
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Originally posted by fish16 View Postwhen tanner scott is traded, they should be focusing on 1 guy, not a series of players in return. He's not going to have a crazy return as a free agent to be, so find a guy the scouts like and go after him. this is obviously on a smaller scale, but think Chapman to the cubs for gleyber torres. I think Norby from the orioles for Scott makes too much sense for both sides.
Will throw out another - Nick Yorke (BOS).
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Originally posted by lou View Post
100% agree. I think Norby is a top 5 name for him for sure.
Will throw out another - Nick Yorke (BOS).
Could also see them continuing the trend of a 3+ year rebuild and getting the 18 year old Joendry vargas, who was one of the top international guys last year.
I doubt bendix was part of the rays at that point, but if you remember they dealt david price to the tigers way back when and went after an 18 year old willy adames. It would fit in with the rest of the moves they have made.
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yankees are rumored to want jazz. I could see them trying for something like roderick arias, who is an 18 year old in rookie ball but what the top international prospect a few years ago, plus agustin ramirez who is a 10-20 ranked prospect in their system but seems like an MLB ready C option. He isnt really the type of C the rays type of guys like, which is bad hitters and good defenders. Agustin is a really solid hitter but not really a defender. Maybe a future change to an automated strike zone changes their philosophy.
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Originally posted by lou View Post
100% agree. Frankly, we should pencil them in as the IF backups for years as that is probably what they are. Which would honestly be fine IMO.
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Not breaking any news about how bad our offense is but i just saw we have i think the 11th lowest ERA in wins in baseball history. this offense is historically bad and is only going to get worse once jazz is gone. It's just inexcusable that if they were truly determined to fully rebuild that they didnt do it last offseason and deal arraez and luzardo especially during the winter.
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Originally posted by fish16 View Post
i think the dodgers make a ton of sense for scott as well because they need lefty reliever help, but i dont see a great prospect fit there. outside of their top prospect rushing who likely wouldnt be dealt, the next group of guys are all pitchers. I'd like Cartaya as a buy low guy but for scott that doesnt feel like enough.
Could also see them continuing the trend of a 3+ year rebuild and getting the 18 year old Joendry vargas, who was one of the top international guys last year.
I doubt bendix was part of the rays at that point, but if you remember they dealt david price to the tigers way back when and went after an 18 year old willy adames. It would fit in with the rest of the moves they have made.
It's gonna be interesting if nothing less. I do hope they target summer 2026 players at latest versus lower level guys for "piece 1" back in every deal. We shall see.
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