2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

Yet another 0fer from wendle and stallings tonight. 0-5 with 4 k’s. Horrific management all season. I’m checked out on this year. At least the football owner who is also a buffoon at least tries to invest in his team. Sherman gives 0 reasons to root for this team

[rmc523]

Yet another 0fer from wendle and stallings tonight. 0-5 with 4 k’s. Horrific management all season. I’m checked out on this year. At least the football owner who is also a buffoon at least tries to invest in his team. Sherman gives 0 reasons to root for this team

I have no idea why Wendle has been given such a long leash.

[fish16]

I have no idea why Wendle has been given such a long leash.

because him and Stallings are "Scrappy" and "gamers". After we all saw how bad stallings was last year, his numbers have been across the board even worse this year. Just an awful baseball player. I remember when Lou penciled him in for 2 WAR along with Wendle this year because of the unmatchable ZIPS projections that are never accurate.

[lou]

because him and Stallings are "Scrappy" and "gamers". After we all saw how bad stallings was last year, his numbers have been across the board even worse this year. Just an awful baseball player. I remember when Lou penciled him in for 2 WAR along with Wendle this year because of the unmatchable ZIPS projections that are never accurate.

You are not smarter than the baseball analytical community or any writer on Fangraphs, nor a medical doctor. No one has ever been so confidently wrong as yourself all the time. Except maybe Lee with minor league players on hot streaks. Get over yourself with these instigating jabs out of nowhere that don't even land as of course players don't perform to expectations but that doesn't mean you can discount an entire industry. BTW your season long punching bag Andrus has a 1.3 WAR in 360 PA so I wonder why you haven't mentioned him lately and my vote for worst take of the year is, remember when you told me Cole Ragans (2.1 WAR in 77 IP) wasn't an overpay and I told you that isn't accurate and the Rangers overspent to get a guy earlier than the deadline. If you ever want to play the scoreboard, it will get ugly fast. You are a slightly above average radio talk show caller level of baseball intelligence. Pipe down young lad.

[lou]

I have no idea why Wendle has been given such a long leash.

Completely. They should have shifted to Amaya a long time ago and played Berti against nearly all RHP there. If they valued Berti positional flexibility, call up Edwards instead of Yuli or whoever on top and Edwards and Amaya can play all over when Berti is at SS. It is puzzling the dedication to the veterans. I may add, Andrus could have probably been added to the Burger deal easily and they'd have gotten a win out of him at this point as he's been capital G Great since July.

[lou]

Dodgers calling up Kyle Hurt today. He led the minors in K's. So both arms(Hurt and Vesia) that were traded for Floro are in the LA pen and the Marlins have neither Floro nor the guy from Minnesota they traded him for.

Floro got the Marlins around 3 WAR, he was pretty good for them while here. I don't think we can beat them up on this one unless those Dodgers guys really take a Tanner Scott turn and that's doubtful. I view this as the same as Michael King for Cooper and C. Smith. King (4+ WAR career) is pretty damn good, but the team did get 6+ WAR out of Cooper and C. Smith so you got some value and didn't get killed. If we include Weathers in that also, this may be a big net gain in the future if he works out as a RP.

Not on my complaint list personally.

[rmc523]

Completely. They should have shifted to Amaya a long time ago and played Berti against nearly all RHP there. If they valued Berti positional flexibility, call up Edwards instead of Yuli or whoever on top and Edwards and Amaya can play all over when Berti is at SS. It is puzzling the dedication to the veterans. I may add, Andrus could have probably been added to the Burger deal easily and they'd have gotten a win out of him at this point as he's been capital G Great since July.

He's been at a level where are you really losing anything trying the younger guy?

[fish16]

You are not smarter than the baseball analytical community or any writer on Fangraphs, nor a medical doctor. No one has ever been so confidently wrong as yourself all the time. Except maybe Lee with minor league players on hot streaks. Get over yourself with these instigating jabs out of nowhere that don't even land as of course players don't perform to expectations but that doesn't mean you can discount an entire industry. BTW your season long punching bag Andrus has a 1.3 WAR in 360 PA so I wonder why you haven't mentioned him lately and my vote for worst take of the year is, remember when you told me Cole Ragans (2.1 WAR in 77 IP) wasn't an overpay and I told you that isn't accurate and the Rangers overspent to get a guy earlier than the deadline. If you ever want to play the scoreboard, it will get ugly fast. You are a slightly above average radio talk show caller level of baseball intelligence. Pipe down young lad.

Elvis andrus has an 84 WRC+ on an awful white sox team. no one loves all defense no bat players who accumulate your precious WAR more than you. I dont care about defensively driven WAR because it is not reliable on a year to year basis, kind of like how stallings was the best defensive catcher and then somehow just forgot how to catch? It's also not reliably quantifiable at all, let alone on a year to year basis.

you wanted Andrus for his abilities to hit lefties, an ability you made up given his thoroughly unimpressive career .723 OPS against them. His OPS the first 3 months of the year was .521, .579, and .563. He has been a significantly below average hitter 5 out of 6 years, and even last year it was a single month, kind of like his august this year and awful remainder of the year. you wanted him for his offense against lefties, something he has never provided. Jon berti has a .793 OPS against lefties this year, Andrus has a .681. That was the discussion. Andrus offense since august has also been helped to the tune of a .415 BABIP. For the year his baseball savant percentiles have him at 5% xwoba, 28% xBA, 3% xslg, 17% exit velocity, 4% barrel percentage, 10% hard hit, 8% sweet spot, and 33% bb%. He's an awful hitter, and he has been an awful hitter for several years.

You consistently use ZIPS projections as if they are the holy grail and never look back at when they suck, which is every year. One does not have to be smarter than the analytical community to not consistently just take everything they say as gospel, which is all you do. That and regurgitate the same unrealistic werth signing that is never going to happen. Maybe you should talk about us signing a $100 million free agent some more as if any major free agent wants to come here.

Or maybe we can have the discussion again that DLC is just on the precipice of his breakout. Remember when all the analysts who dont actually watch him play baseball unanimously predicted his breakout and anyone who called out that absurd bullshit was just definitely not as smart as them and couldnt possibly be right because he was simply just so unlucky last year right? It's been a real pleasure to see him stink up every aspect of the game all year long to the tune of .2 fucking WAR in a full time starters role. He is totally the next Teoscar hernandez despite his throughly unimpressive minor league career and even less impressive major league career for the last 9 years combined. Maybe that swing change 9 years into his professional career has a 2 year lag time.

Or maybe we can discuss how Bryan reynolds was comfortably penciled in for 3.5-5 WAR annually and has been just slightly above average each of the last 2 years and also not a CF. Or how Amed Rosario was some impact player and he has literally exactly 0 war so far this year. Or how Arraez's bat wouldnt play at 1b. Or how you penciled in Groshans for .8 WAR when he stinks. Or how you advocated for alek Thomas and rosario as 2 additions that could add "5.3 WAR" based on your absurd projections again and they have combined for .6 this year. Or how the projections showed an absurd 3 combined WAR for Stallings and Fortes. or how you called Wendle a premium bench player based on his WAR pace based on 600 ab's.


You're not the smartest guy in the room. You regurgitate the same bullshit analytics over and over again without any actual thinking of your own. taking into consideration the expertise of others doesnt require blindly following said expertise when it is proven to be wildly inaccurate on an annual basis.

[fish16]

Completely. They should have shifted to Amaya a long time ago and played Berti against nearly all RHP there. If they valued Berti positional flexibility, call up Edwards instead of Yuli or whoever on top and Edwards and Amaya can play all over when Berti is at SS. It is puzzling the dedication to the veterans. I may add, Andrus could have probably been added to the Burger deal easily and they'd have gotten a win out of him at this point as he's been capital G Great since July.

how many times are you going to bring up amaya as if anything he has done this year that is all that impressive? The guy has a .747 OPS in AAA, he is not a future starter nor is he some sort of major improvement even over wendle this year. Wendle sucks, but amaya isnt an improvement. He had a single good month in AAA and has been ass the remainder of the year. He had a .622 OPS in April, .667 in June, .731 in July, and .626 in August. He has very little power. He is not a major league starting SS. They should have just been playing Berti everyday and sprinkling Hampson in if they didnt have an answer from outside the organization and stop acting as if Wendle is a remotely competent hitter even against righties. Theyve given the guy 250 fucking at bats against righties to the tune of a .572 OPS and are still playing him against righties here in late september.

Jacob Amaya's OPS against lefties in AAA is just slightly higher than Berti's against lefties in the big leagues.

[rmc523]

Round and round we go as always

[lou]

Round and round we go as always

This is why I don't try and engage him so we can all avoid these adolescent tantrums. He will grow up one day into being normal. I am confident in that.

[lou]

Elvis andrus has an 84 WRC+ on an awful white sox team. no one loves all defense no bat players who accumulate your precious WAR more than you. I dont care about defensively driven WAR because it is not reliable on a year to year basis, kind of like how stallings was the best defensive catcher and then somehow just forgot how to catch? It's also not reliably quantifiable at all, let alone on a year to year basis.

you wanted Andrus for his abilities to hit lefties, an ability you made up given his thoroughly unimpressive career .723 OPS against them. His OPS the first 3 months of the year was .521, .579, and .563. He has been a significantly below average hitter 5 out of 6 years, and even last year it was a single month, kind of like his august this year and awful remainder of the year. you wanted him for his offense against lefties, something he has never provided. Jon berti has a .793 OPS against lefties this year, Andrus has a .681. That was the discussion. Andrus offense since august has also been helped to the tune of a .415 BABIP. For the year his baseball savant percentiles have him at 5% xwoba, 28% xBA, 3% xslg, 17% exit velocity, 4% barrel percentage, 10% hard hit, 8% sweet spot, and 33% bb%. He's an awful hitter, and he has been an awful hitter for several years.

You consistently use ZIPS projections as if they are the holy grail and never look back at when they suck, which is every year. One does not have to be smarter than the analytical community to not consistently just take everything they say as gospel, which is all you do. That and regurgitate the same unrealistic werth signing that is never going to happen. Maybe you should talk about us signing a $100 million free agent some more as if any major free agent wants to come here.

Or maybe we can have the discussion again that DLC is just on the precipice of his breakout. Remember when all the analysts who dont actually watch him play baseball unanimously predicted his breakout and anyone who called out that absurd bullshit was just definitely not as smart as them and couldnt possibly be right because he was simply just so unlucky last year right? It's been a real pleasure to see him stink up every aspect of the game all year long to the tune of .2 fucking WAR in a full time starters role. He is totally the next Teoscar hernandez despite his throughly unimpressive minor league career and even less impressive major league career for the last 9 years combined. Maybe that swing change 9 years into his professional career has a 2 year lag time.

Or maybe we can discuss how Bryan reynolds was comfortably penciled in for 3.5-5 WAR annually and has been just slightly above average each of the last 2 years and also not a CF. Or how Amed Rosario was some impact player and he has literally exactly 0 war so far this year. Or how Arraez's bat wouldnt play at 1b. Or how you penciled in Groshans for .8 WAR when he stinks. Or how you advocated for alek Thomas and rosario as 2 additions that could add "5.3 WAR" based on your absurd projections again and they have combined for .6 this year. Or how the projections showed an absurd 3 combined WAR for Stallings and Fortes. or how you called Wendle a premium bench player based on his WAR pace based on 600 ab's.


You're not the smartest guy in the room. You regurgitate the same bullshit analytics over and over again without any actual thinking of your own. taking into consideration the expertise of others doesnt require blindly following said expertise when it is proven to be wildly inaccurate on an annual basis.

So you know, the only Marlins hitters having a better year than Andrus are Arraez, Soler, Jazz, Sanchez, and Burger. That's the entire list. And that's fucking terrible as Elvis is not very good. Give it up my man. And the positioning on DLC was -always- just let him play and see what happens as he showed elite traits. So they aren't showing casing them? Who cares. It was the right decision to play him and see what happens. And you would have traded for Reynolds and said Rosario will be a could cheap buy-low option for next year a few weeks ago, so I mean why are you doing this? What made you like this to just argue to argue?

[lou]

how many times are you going to bring up amaya as if anything he has done this year that is all that impressive? The guy has a .747 OPS in AAA, he is not a future starter nor is he some sort of major improvement even over wendle this year. Wendle sucks, but amaya isnt an improvement. He had a single good month in AAA and has been ass the remainder of the year. He had a .622 OPS in April, .667 in June, .731 in July, and .626 in August. He has very little power. He is not a major league starting SS. They should have just been playing Berti everyday and sprinkling Hampson in if they didnt have an answer from outside the organization and stop acting as if Wendle is a remotely competent hitter even against righties. Theyve given the guy 250 fucking at bats against righties to the tune of a .572 OPS and are still playing him against righties here in late september.

Jacob Amaya's OPS against lefties in AAA is just slightly higher than Berti's against lefties in the big leagues.

We all agree Wendle should have gone a long time ago. No one disagrees here. No one is arguing. I repeat, no one is arguing with you.

I'd have tried something new versus Wendle and Amaya has a -long- track record of hitting LHP in the minors. Absent making a trade for a SS at the deadline which they should have done, he was the best option IMO to do a R/L Berti/Amaya platoon and see if it worked. They can find room elsewhere for Berti easily somewhere on the field since Jazz (was hurt a lot) and Sanchez are pretty much immediate benches versus LHP anyways. Frankly Amaya's defense upside is likely trumping any "extra offense" Wendle is bringing. They don't have other options. What else are they to do as they have generally ignored this position? Hampson is likely not a defender at SS but sure if you prefer trying him over Amaya, go for it. I'd go with the true SS but I'm not arguing over any idea over Wendle. And no one is. I repeat, no one is arguing with you. But let's blow a circuit over this. Calm down.

[Namaste]

Horrific management all season. I’m checked out on this year.

This is check out #3 on the year. See you in 36 hours.

[fish16]

So you know, the only Marlins hitters having a better year than Andrus are Arraez, Soler, Jazz, Sanchez, and Burger. That's the entire list. And that's fucking terrible as Elvis is not very good. Give it up my man. And the positioning on DLC was -always- just let him play and see what happens as he showed elite traits. So they aren't showing casing them? Who cares. It was the right decision to play him and see what happens. And you would have traded for Reynolds and said Rosario will be a could cheap buy-low option for next year a few weeks ago, so I mean why are you doing this? What made you like this to just argue to argue?

so you know, the way you are making a complete and final determination on "better year than" is a blanket and unquestioned reliance on WAR because you want 1 number to tell you what a player is so you have to have 0 nuance and critical thinking or analysis about a player's ability using multiple metrics both statistically and observed to make a final determination and opinion. And anyone who god forbid questions your absurd reliance on that flawed stat is met with "oh so you think you're smarter than the experts." And then you take absurd, never going to come true projections of that stat year in and year out with 0 reflection on how completely awful they are annually in a wildly unpredictable sport from month to month let alone year to year.

What does it tell you about a stat that there can be wild fluctuations of that stat based on the website you get it from? You so desperately want it to be the perfect stat so you can use it as the end all be all and it simply is not, because, among other things, as i have said for years it's ability to measure defense and its weighting of defense and it's value relative to offense is not sound. If you want to use it as one metric to look at in the complete totality of a player, fine, but you use it as the end all be all despite it's clear flaws and act holier than thou and as if someone else has no idea what they are talking about when they dare to question it's accuracy or reliability.

It should be a glaring red flag to you that the same stat can have wild fluctuations based on who calculates it. It is 1 metric. It is a fine measurement, but you need to realize it has flaws and that not everyone has to agree that it is the end all be all For example, last year Taylor Walls had a 2.6 BWAR and a -.6 FWAR. Brendan Rodgers had a BWAR of 4.3 and an FWAR of 1.6. Sal Perez had a BWAR of 2.7 and an FWAR of .5. Amed Rosario had a BWAR of 4.2 and an FWAR of 2.7. And that's just for hitters. Sandy himself had a 2 WAR difference last year between BWAR and FWAR. The reason for the differences are one site uses UZR and the other uses defensive runs saved. Measures of defense have not yet been perfected like offensive measures have for what should be obvious reasons. That should be an indication to you that you are using a flawed stat and the underlying metrics used to calculate that stat have their own issues and that you should maybe stop using it as the complete measure of a player and actually do a complete analysis of a player and stop acting like a smug asshole when someone dares question your opinion.