2023 Game Thread

[Namaste]

Imagine thinking Skip should be fired.

We are currently tied for the 3rd WC spot and we have a -44 Run Differential but the manager should be fired.

[fish16]

I just can't. All I can say here is, being stuck with a bunch of shit on the roster absolutely influences moves, you don't know the physical and medical conditions of guys to know their availability, and can you prove the front office didn't make him throw Weathers and the FO is not dictating some of these decisions based on wanting to see guys/availability concerns with a call up strategy. They have a lot of problems right now and going nuclear that Skip is operating at a fireable level when there are other things happening is BEYOND DRAMATIC.

Being stuck with Garcia and wendle doesnt mean you have to use them in the 9th when you have berti and gurriel on the bench. It's even worse than i thought as i thought nardi was pitching back to back games. he actually only pitched monday, not tuesday. So he actively decided to take out a fresh nardi after 13 pitches and 2 guys on in favor of Jorge lopez, who had exactly the same amount of rest as nardi, who went on to be allowed to walk 3 and give up another 2 hits before being removed. Being stuck with Brazoban doesnt mean you have to use him for 2.2 innings in a close game on sunday the day after sandy threw a complete game. Sandy was cruising in the phillies game and he took him out.

The game before that weathers game, the only 3 relievers to pitch were Puk, Smeltzer, and lopez. The game before that game, only puk and smeltzer pitched, meaning the rest of the bullpen other than puk and Smeltzer had 2 full days rest and he chose to pitch weathers for 95 pitches and blow the game. You can continue to blame the roster, but overwork is not a reason why weathers goes 4 innings of terrible pitching when scott and nardi and robertson havent pitched in 3 days. Hate to break it to you, it's just awful managing.

[fish16]

Imagine thinking Skip should be fired.

We are currently tied for the 3rd WC spot and we have a -44 Run Differential but the manager should be fired.

i didnt say he should be fired, i said he has been fireable level bad for the last month. He was also really good for the first couple months. His decision have just been inexplicable for over a month and he has played a huge part in blowing several different games and for some reason giving up on a lot of others for no reason.

[lou]

Being stuck with Garcia and wendle doesnt mean you have to use them in the 9th when you have berti and gurriel on the bench. It's even worse than i thought as i thought nardi was pitching back to back games. he actually only pitched monday, not tuesday. So he actively decided to take out a fresh nardi after 13 pitches and 2 guys on in favor of Jorge lopez, who had exactly the same amount of rest as nardi, who went on to be allowed to walk 3 and give up another 2 hits before being removed. Being stuck with Brazoban doesnt mean you have to use him for 2.2 innings in a close game on sunday the day after sandy threw a complete game. Sandy was cruising in the phillies game and he took him out.

The game before that weathers game, the only 3 relievers to pitch were Puk, Smeltzer, and lopez. The game before that game, only puk and smeltzer pitched, meaning the rest of the bullpen other than puk and Smeltzer had 2 full days rest and he chose to pitch weathers for 95 pitches and blow the game. You can continue to blame the roster, but overwork is not a reason why weathers goes 4 innings of terrible pitching when scott and nardi and robertson havent pitched in 3 days. Hate to break it to you, it's just awful managing.

I'd like a daily update on guy's physical and mental status, starting pitching probables, innings availability ROS, and cascading availability of minor league call ups for big innings if someone has a bum start and they need someone tomorrow. These would be helpful for me to understand why Skip is so bad. You clearly have this knowledge so please share it with us daily.

[fish16]

I'd like a daily update on guy's physical and mental status, starting pitching probables, innings availability ROS, and cascading availability of minor league call ups for big innings if someone has a bum start and they need someone tomorrow. These would be helpful for me to understand why Skip is so bad. You clearly have this knowledge so please share it with us daily.

doesnt take a genius or inside knowledge to know that if the entire bullpen outside of Puk and Smeltzer havent pitched in 3 days, you have better options available than ryan weathers for 100 pitches out of the bullpen against one of the best lineups in baseball.

Doesnt take a genius to know that sending cueto out for another inning against the astros lineup was idiotic when all but 2 runs that he has allowed all year have been from home runs.

Doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that berti and gurriel were available off the bench on tuesday and that relying on numbers from 7 at bats from over 5 years ago for a guy who has been flat out awful for 2 full years now is idiotic.

Doesnt take a genius to know that they are in a playoff race, sandy is a horse, and he was cruising through 8 innings of a crucial game.

It doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that continuing to go to jorge lopez in high leverage situations is an awful idea, especially to replace nardi of all people after 2 guys get on base but allow the game to get completely blown up and allow lopez to give up 3 walks and 2 hits and get a single out in a 1 run game.

Doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that the rental high leverage reliever we just got for 2 solid prospects should probably not be pitching in fewer games and fewer innings since we acquired him than jorge lopez.

Doesnt take a genius to or inside info to see that wendle cant hit righties or lefties this year or last year and that continuing to play him against righties under the guise that he hits righties well is stupid and that berti is a better option.

None of these require inside information. They are flat out bad moves, no matter whether you want to continue to excuse Skip's awful decisions for a full month now or not.

[rmc523]

I'd agree that a lot of his moves in the 2nd half have been questionable.

I also acknowledge that there are things behind the scenes we don't know, but not all of the questionable moves can be attributed to that.

We should've gotten additional pitching at the deadline, as it was evident we'd need more innings.

[lou]

Article about luck - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/those-go...e-at-it-again/

TLDR - "I have absolutely no idea how the Marlins are doing what they’re doing. Good luck to them."

[lou]

doesnt take a genius or inside knowledge to know that if the entire bullpen outside of Puk and Smeltzer havent pitched in 3 days, you have better options available than ryan weathers for 100 pitches out of the bullpen against one of the best lineups in baseball.

Doesnt take a genius to know that sending cueto out for another inning against the astros lineup was idiotic when all but 2 runs that he has allowed all year have been from home runs.

Doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that berti and gurriel were available off the bench on tuesday and that relying on numbers from 7 at bats from over 5 years ago for a guy who has been flat out awful for 2 full years now is idiotic.

Doesnt take a genius to know that they are in a playoff race, sandy is a horse, and he was cruising through 8 innings of a crucial game.

It doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that continuing to go to jorge lopez in high leverage situations is an awful idea, especially to replace nardi of all people after 2 guys get on base but allow the game to get completely blown up and allow lopez to give up 3 walks and 2 hits and get a single out in a 1 run game.

Doesnt take a genius or inside info to know that the rental high leverage reliever we just got for 2 solid prospects should probably not be pitching in fewer games and fewer innings since we acquired him than jorge lopez.

Doesnt take a genius to or inside info to see that wendle cant hit righties or lefties this year or last year and that continuing to play him against righties under the guise that he hits righties well is stupid and that berti is a better option.

None of these require inside information. They are flat out bad moves, no matter whether you want to continue to excuse Skip's awful decisions for a full month now or not.

As stated - Did the front office demand Weathers pitch to see what they had? Did the front office demand Robertson come in as the shiny new toy that Sandy game? Is the front office refusing to call up Amaya, Hampson, or Edwards in favor of Wendle and/or Garcia despite Skip's request? I think there is more meddling then we think there is, so when reviewing, as stated, is this all Skip? You're probably more right than wrong if it is, but a lot of these decisions look like organizational ones to me and I do think the analytics department of the team calls down moves but I have no real proof which I can admit. The point is, you do not know about all of this and are looking for scapegoats. Some of it is likely right, some of it now. Let's be less absolute for once.

[lou]

I'd agree that a lot of his moves in the 2nd half have been questionable.

I also acknowledge that there are things behind the scenes we don't know, but not all of the questionable moves can be attributed to that.

We should've gotten additional pitching at the deadline, as it was evident we'd need more innings.

Yep

[rmc523]

Yep

Kim seems to target/acquire what we need a year after everyone else knows what we need.

[lou]

Kim seems to target/acquire what we need a year after everyone else knows what we need.

So you're saying we'll get a longterm SS and solid on paper supplementary pieces this offseason, and Stallings is 100% the primary catcher next year. Sounds about right.

Constant comment here - Bruce can change this.

[fish16]

As stated - Did the front office demand Weathers pitch to see what they had? Did the front office demand Robertson come in as the shiny new toy that Sandy game? Is the front office refusing to call up Amaya, Hampson, or Edwards in favor of Wendle and/or Garcia despite Skip's request? I think there is more meddling then we think there is, so when reviewing, as stated, is this all Skip? You're probably more right than wrong if it is, but a lot of these decisions look like organizational ones to me and I do think the analytics department of the team calls down moves but I have no real proof which I can admit. The point is, you do not know about all of this and are looking for scapegoats. Some of it is likely right, some of it now. Let's be less absolute for once.

there is literally 0 evidence of any kind of meddling from the front office. What sense would it make that in the middle of a playoff chase, Kim twists Skip's hand and says you must throw weathers for 100 pitches in this game regardless of the situation in a tight game against one of the best lineups in baseball after 2 straight days of games where the only guys who pitched are Puk and Smeltzer. just think about what you are saying, it makes 0 sense for kim to do that. It was a bad decision. Even if the front office wanted to see him, he left him in for 95 fucking pitches out of the bullpen when he was getting absolutely shelled and he blew a game that was very winnable. Our best pitchers hadnt pitched in days and he left him in for 95 pitches!

And Garcia and Wendle simply being on the team obviously is Kim's call, but pinch hitting garcia and letting Wendle hit with the game on the line are clearly Skip's calls. He even said after the game garcia hit based on his success against Pressly, which came more than 5 years ago.

Yes, they are twisting Skip's arm to pitch Robertson so much that he has pitched a single inning in the last 6 games while Jorge lopez has pitched in 4 different games since then. It's just bad managing. He has completely lost all feel or common sense for the abilities of the guys on this team.

You're just making up excuses. They are bad decisions. No need to bend over backwards to think of an explanation. It's just terrible managing. Plain and simple.

[lou]

there is literally 0 evidence of any kind of meddling from the front office. What sense would it make that in the middle of a playoff chase, Kim twists Skip's hand and says you must throw weathers for 100 pitches in this game regardless of the situation in a tight game against one of the best lineups in baseball after 2 straight days of games where the only guys who pitched are Puk and Smeltzer. just think about what you are saying, it makes 0 sense for kim to do that. It was a bad decision. Even if the front office wanted to see him, he left him in for 95 fucking pitches out of the bullpen when he was getting absolutely shelled and he blew a game that was very winnable. Our best pitchers hadnt pitched in days and he left him in for 95 pitches!

And Garcia and Wendle simply being on the team obviously is Kim's call, but pinch hitting garcia and letting Wendle hit with the game on the line are clearly Skip's calls. He even said after the game garcia hit based on his success against Pressly, which came more than 5 years ago.

Yes, they are twisting Skip's arm to pitch Robertson so much that he has pitched a single inning in the last 6 games while Jorge lopez has pitched in 4 different games since then. It's just bad managing. He has completely lost all feel or common sense for the abilities of the guys on this team.

You're just making up excuses. They are bad decisions. No need to bend over backwards to think of an explanation. It's just terrible managing. Plain and simple.

Where's your evidence? Do you realize yet what you are doing here?

[fish16]

Where's your evidence? Do you realize yet what you are doing here?

you want my evidence of something that isnt existing? Where is your evidence that there is any meddling? You're asking me to prove that something you are claiming exists doesnt exist. You're the one making the claim. There is nothing that has ever been reported in regards to Kim or Sherman meddling. it's not that deep, it's just terrible decision making since the all star break.

[fish16]

xavier edwards is playing shortstop for the first time this year today. Now has played 2b, SS, 3b, and CF this year. edward cabrera going again in AAA. Hopefully he can show some more control. Possibly his last start before being called back up, if not then just 1 more then he should be back up here. Put him in the rotation and let cueto eat some innings in the pen long role. Somehow Cueto's fastball has the best velocity he has had since 2016.