2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

I'm not sure about his defensive prowess, but Austin Allen at AAA would probably be an upgrade over Stallings.

he's got pretty mediocre numbers in AAA and has had bad career MLB numbers. id assume there is a reason he hasnt gotten many mlb opportunities despite having really solid AAA numbers for years. Alfaro at least has a track record of somewhat competence at the big league level and it would at least give us some juice in the bats of our catchers position if he gets hot and runs into a couple. He could help with a mid .600's ops or so, which is sadly a vast improvement on stallings. Plus alfaro has a cannon for an arm.

[fish16]

so that was a waste of a game. good thing they rallied last night. need to go on a run starting friday

[Todd]

I like the idea of Triolo, but I can't see them trading any pitcher or going for a rental. They are like the Marlins where they need longer term guys. I think they would be really interested in the Marlins arms though.

A pie in the sky scenario may be something like H. Davis (FV55 C and behind E. Rodriguez as a prospect arguably), Triolo (FV45 3B/play everywhere), and kick the tires on Nick Gonzalez finding his draft status (FV40 2B). This is effectively the same value as say..... Eder, Fulton, Miller/Millbrandt/S. Reynolds, Mack/R. Hernandez, and throw them in Sixto or Nasim/I. Lewis for boom or bust upside. It would be solidifying catcher forever on paper and getting two more Edwards/Amaya/Groshans types basically.

Nothing like that could happen during the season unless everyone falls out, but the Pirates could easily run with this:

E. Rodriguez (FV55), _____
____
Peguero (FV45+), Bae
Cruz, _____
K. Hayes, D. Lopez (FV40)
Suwinski, C. Joe
Reynolds
_____

Keller, Brubaker (injured), and have a lot of interesting SP arms with Contreras, Eder, Ortiz, Preister, Fulton, and old friend K. Nicolas
And Bednar leading a young bullpen that has a few good arms past him.

They'd have a lot of open money to spend to get a 1B, RF/DH, and a platoon SS (as Cruz may play some OF) + maybe a luxury SP upgrades. I think that's a good idea for them as C, SS, 3B, and CF have start upside in their lineup here.


Marlins on paper could at least have this pretty quickly

Davis (FV55), Fortes
Arraez
Segura, N. Gonzalez (FV40) <--- Watson eventually replacing Segura
______, Amaya (FV45)
Triolo < --- Cappe eventually replacing
DLC
Jazz, Edwards
J. Sanchez, Garcia

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Rogers, Luzardo, Garrett, and Cueto, with Meyer and Monteverde(!) in the wings with a ton of FV40 relievers.

There would be room here for a 3rd SP trade easily + money for a luxury upgrade anywhere, and looking hard at you Garcia here.

Imagine they Luzardo for Peraza is the core deal and Soler is kept:


Davis, Fortes
Arraez
Segura, N. Gonzalez <--- Watson eventually replacing Segura
Peraza, Amaya
Triolo < --- Cappe eventually pushing elsewhere. Survival of the fittest.
DLC
Jazz, Edwards
J. Sanchez, Soler

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Rogers, Garrett, Cueto
Meyer, Bender, Chargois, and they have seven FV40 RHP reliever types according to Fangraphs, and doesn't include Soriano and others
Puk, Nardi, Monteverde

Keep Meyer and Monteverde has 2-3 IP guys to stretch out quickly as needed for SP7 and 8. Marlins would have thinned out their SP depth big time moving 3 names, but adding two FV55, one FV45, and one FV40 bat to the immediate lineup + Edwards and Amaya each as FV45s on their own, is a pretty quick young talent infusion here.


Basically, endless hypotheticals to make this work for all teams and they have the juice. We'll see what happens. Practically, I will keep saying they should probably trade for Moncada/T. Anderson sort of thing as the White Sox suck and those guys make a lot of sense to go for it now.

The Marlins actually have something the Pirates desperately need. A good lefty reliever. Their bullpen is devoid of one.

I would call them up and offer Okert. For the return Jared Triolo(3B), Matt Gorski(OF, basically their own version of Burdick), Carmen Mlodzknski(RHP reliever), and Quinn Priester(RHP) as the centerpiece. Maybe throw in a wildcard OF to offset Gorski in a Jerar Encarnacion. And hell, Austin Hedges is one of the C who is like worse than Stallings. Throw in Stallings with his salary paid in hopes that being back in Pitt is the piece he is missing. Heck ask for Kyle Nicholas back and call it a mulligan, heck give them another young LHP to offset Nicholas. They can even keep Scott.

Pirates get:
Jacob Stallings(C)
Steven Okert(LHP)
Will Stewart(LHP)
Jerar Encarnacion(IF/OF)
$$$$$

Marlins get:
Quinn Priester(RHP)
Jared Triolo(3B)
Carmen Mlodzknski(RHP)
Matt Gorski(OF)
Kyle Nicholas(RHP)

Then sell high on Chargois, Floro, Barnes, and Brazoban. And if you want Scott.

Bullpen for remainder of year would be Puk/Nardi/Castano/Soriano/Priester/Mlodzknski/Hoeing and one of Maldonado, Charles, or Nicholas.

[lou]

The Marlins actually have something the Pirates desperately need. A good lefty reliever. Their bullpen is devoid of one.

I would call them up and offer Okert. For the return Jared Triolo(3B), Matt Gorski(OF, basically their own version of Burdick), Carmen Mlodzknski(RHP reliever), and Quinn Priester(RHP) as the centerpiece. Maybe throw in a wildcard OF to offset Gorski in a Jerar Encarnacion. And hell, Austin Hedges is one of the C who is like worse than Stallings. Throw in Stallings with his salary paid in hopes that being back in Pitt is the piece he is missing. Heck ask for Kyle Nicholas back and call it a mulligan, heck give them another young LHP to offset Nicholas. They can even keep Scott.

Pirates get:
Jacob Stallings(C)
Steven Okert(LHP)
Will Stewart(LHP)
Jerar Encarnacion(IF/OF)
$$$$$

Marlins get:
Quinn Priester(RHP)
Jared Triolo(3B)
Carmen Mlodzknski(RHP)
Matt Gorski(OF)
Kyle Nicholas(RHP)

Then sell high on Chargois, Floro, Barnes, and Brazoban. And if you want Scott.

Bullpen for remainder of year would be Puk/Nardi/Castano/Soriano/Priester/Mlodzknski/Hoeing and one of Maldonado, Charles, or Nicholas.

Priester is considered a top 100 prospect, Fangraphs has him as 108 and MLB in the 60s. A solid FV50. He is an Eder or Meyer in value. In no world would we trade Eder or Meyer for Okert and spare parts. Am I missing something here? Is that a lot of money? If they got Triolo and one of the other guys for Okert, that would be a good deadline deal and aligns with similar Groshans/Edwards type valued deals they have done. But we're really shooting for the moon here for Priester and 4 prospects in their top 25 for just Okert.

If they do fall out, they can basically trade off the entire team if they have willing partners - Stallings, Cooper, Yuli, Wendle, Berti, Segura, Garcia, Soler, Cueto, Floro, Chargois, Scott, Okert, Barnes, and Brazoban. Just unload it all if there are willing partners and good luck Jerar, Burdick, Edwards, Amaya, and Groshans, and maybe others like J. Davis and Mangum or an aggressive Nasim call up. Earn your spot.

[fish16]

cant wait to see the big time return for jacob stallings. gotta hope for at least 1 bucket of balls, but maybe we can squeeze 2 buckets from a desperate team.

[Namaste]

Can’t wait to lose 2 of 3 to the A’s this weekend.

[rmc523]

Can’t wait to lose 2 of 3 to the A’s this weekend.

Yeah, that'd be a Marlins thing to do.

[lou]

We're a month away from this, but Minnesota got a really solid farm write up for Marlins purposes - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/minnesot...rospects-2023/

Lee (3B maybe SS) FV55
R. Lewis (SS maybe CF maybe 3B) FV50
Julien (2B) FV50
E. Rodriguez (CF/RF) FV45+
Wallner (RF/DH) FV45
A. Martin (LF) FV45
Salas (2B only now so does string a little less once they sign Arraez longterm for the love of fuck) FV45

They have Correa (SS), Buxton (DH/OF), Kiriloff (1B/LF/DH), Larnach (LF), Miranda (1B/3B), and N. Gordon (2B/OF) on top of this two who they have for years

I think the Twins have a really nice depth chart with:

Vazquez, Jeffers
Kirilloff, Miranda
______, N. Gordon
Correa
______
Larnach, _____
______, Buxton (we'll consider him the 5th OF/DH)
______

(They also have control years for Polanco and Kepler).

They absolutely need another young starter on top of this to match with Ryan and Pablo at the top. They have two FV50 guys (Varland and Festa), and then guys like Ober who we'd consider a "Garrett." They can pretty much trade any two of those 7 guys above and fill in the blank lines however they fall how I see it.

If I were them, I'd move Julien (a fringy 2B defender and they could maybe put Royce or Lee there longterm with the other at 3B and Gordon can help too and Salas in the pipeline) and Wallner/A. Martin and go get an arm. They have Polanco to help now for 2B too. Martin or Wallner has no future there at all. One has gotta go.

Julien + Martin/Wallner is an interesting combo for the Marlins. Especially Martin and bet on the pedigree and that he has been hurt. I think an offensive 2B and kicking Arraez to 1B would be fine all things considered. I am imagining Berti and Amaya are the bench infielders next year and they can figure out the defense. Martin just figure it out. Maybe DLC is the the DH longterm as he can't play LF, and Martin takes over there. Martin didn't whiff in 2022 which is their thing now to mention.

I think Rogers, Okert/Scott, and another arm we won't mind missing would get Julien, Martin, and 2-3 more guys in the Twins top 15-30 range. That might be some real nice one-stop shopping only moving 1 of the big arms and getting some legitimate hit-first guys. Minnesota would have to be thrilled with the double lefties with control to contend now.

These are fun hypotheticals for everyone for a sooner rather than later longterm team:

Vazquez, Jeffers
Kirilloff, Miranda
Polanco, N. Gordon
Correa
B. Lee
Larnach, Wallner
R. Lewis, Buxton (we'll consider him the 5th OF/DH)
E. Rodriguez

Ryan, Pablo, Rogers, Varland, Festa


_____, Fortes
Arraez
Julien, Berti
____, Amaya (Watson)
Segura (Cappe)
DLC, A. Martin
Jazz
J. Sanchez

Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, Cueto, Garrett (Eder, Meyer, Fulton)


Marlins can trade 1 more SP here, or 2 and presumably sign another one. A lot of options. Peraza and Cartaya in deadline bangers?

[Nick]

I know it’s Oakland, but Cabrera is dirty.

[lou]

I know it’s Oakland, but Cabrera is dirty.

Yes. Keep the core 4 right handers. Trade the lefties for the bats.

Tanner Scott is also awesome BTW. His BB rate is down 2 per 9 from last year (1 per 9 for career). Groundballs are up. No insane BABIP. Typical strand rate. He looks awesome. Relievers are always one bad appearance from blowing up their stats and Scott is historically great at that, but he's so far taking a step forward. He's a few less walks away from being completely dominant statistically. They have one of the best lefty situations in all of baseball with Luzardo, Rogers, Garrett, Eder, Puk, Scott, Okert, Nardi, Fulton, and Monteverde. What a change from a few years ago when they had nothing.

Which gets back to Cabrera. Gotta trade from this lefty depth and stick with Cabrera longterm. Is Chargois the 5th best right hander in the organization and he may just be ahead of Fulton and Monteverde among the lefties?

[lou]

Also Jesus Sanchez is batting .316/.379/.582 all of a sudden and Fortes has a .5 WAR on the season (120 PA, so multiple that by 4 and he is who we hoped even batting like this).

Get these dudes some help. Jazz, Arraez, Soler, DLC, J. Sanchez, Berti, and Fortes is starting to look like a best case scenario core (assuming Jazz healthy and back to normal quickly). Any sort of 2B/SS/3B and move Segura and Berti around and cutting ship on Stallings would be huge.

[lou]

Another trade idea

Brandon Donovan from Cardinals. 15% K rate. Cardinals suck and could deploy Winn in the infield soon to do Arenado / Winn / Edman / Gorman (once Goldschmidt free agency hits). They will certainly pick up DeJong's option if he keeps playing like this also and is finally healthy. Donovan would profile as a predominant 2B starter for the Marlins with Arraez shifting over.

Sets up lonterm Jazz, Arraez, Donovan, and Sanchez as lefties, DLC, Fortes, Cappe, and Amaya as right handers, and Edwards as a switch.

Longterm view - vs R / vs L

C Fortes and _____
1B Arraez / _____
2B Donovan/Arraez / Arraez
SS _____ / Amaya
3B Cappe/Donovan / Cappe
LF _____ / DLC
CF Jazz / Jazz/Edwards
RF Sanchez / ________
DH DLC / ______

Basically, have four bats to add here - longterm C, SS, some sort of OF, and a DH stick. That's probably a trade, trade, 1 year FA, and 1 year FA, with the focus on two big right handers there they can play every day effectively.


More importantly, Donovan helps a lot right now IMO and if they are still in it after the ASB, they can blow it out for a platoon C and longterm SS as those would be the missing pieces if we believe DLC and Sanchez are this new and improved. I think this works as if someone sucks here, Berti and Donovan can move all over if Cooper, Wendle, or Garcia hit their peaks and need to play over someone. Looking at you Segura.

Fortes, Stallings
Arraez, Cooper
Donovan
Berti, Wendle
Segura
DLC
Jazz
Sanchez, Garcia
Soler

Really loving the idea of this and turning Luzardo + relievers into Peraza and Peirera even down the stretch and then maybe taking Grandal in a pure salary dump, etc. Cardinals would have to love minor league pitching for Donovan with what they are doing right now, so Luzardo, Eder, and nothing important to the White Sox and getting Donovan, Peraza, Peirera, and Grandal? I don't think this is unrealistic at all and Sandy, Cabrera, Eury, Cueto, Rogers, and Garrett are still here w/ Meyer and a killer bullpen.

Come on Kim. Do a move now even if you save a bigger bang for later.

[fish16]

I’m starting to think the a’s might be terrible. Why is billy beane still there? Assuredly he could have had any much better job in the last few years

[fish16]

Does Lee still think Monteverde can provide better production than the 20 year old eury perez can?

[Lee Stone]

Does Lee still think Monteverde can provide better production than the 20 year old eury perez can?

??? What's this? Monteverde was held out 11 days after his excellent start on May 17. As is the case with scarce minor league injury reports, I saw no discussion of his injury/illness/whatever After a rough return outing on May 28, he pitched five innings of no earned run ball for the win last night despite not being particularly sharp.

The Fangraphs updated prospect list came out this week. Monteverde was elevated to the 15th ranked prospect after being ranked 30th preseason. He is now the team's fifth ranked pitcher behind only Perez, Eder, Meyer and Fulton.