2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[fish16]

that is an absolutely brutal schedule holy shit

[tjfla]

that is an absolutely brutal schedule holy shit

2nd hardest schedule in the MLB!! If u betting man look at the Central teams

Jeremy Frank
@MLBRandomStats
·
11h
Hardest 2020 Strength of Schedules in AL based on 2019 records

.536 Mariners
.532 Angels
.530 Orioles
.526 Rangers
.517 Blue Jays
.506 Athletics
.503 Tigers
.500 Red Sox
.496 Astros
.491 Royals
.487 Rays
.480 Yankees
.477 White Sox
.456 Indians
.448 Twins
Jeremy Frank
@MLBRandomStats
Hardest 2020 Strength of Schedules in NL based on 2019 records

.534 Marlins
.531 Padres
.530 Rockies
.523 Giants
.515 Diamondbacks
.509 Phillies
.504 Mets
.502 Pirates
.497 Nationals
.496 Reds
.493 Dodgers
.492 Braves
.487 Cubs
.482 Brewers
.480 Cardinals

[Maddawg]

but with the odd spring training stopping, starting, etc., I'm concerned about injuries.



I do "get the pulse". I'm saying they're going to criticize the move regardless - if he's traded it's "same old Marlins", if he's not "why'd we sign him, he's terrible, why didn't we trade him???"

I'm not saying get rid of him at all costs, just saying that if someone offers you a great deal in this short season, you take it! The fans will complain regardless. I DO understand the "pulse" - but I understand the process they're going for before they go into "keep guys" mode.

I get that, but you also understand the rebuild process. Joe Blow fan doesn't, and you need Joe Blow fan to become interested in the franchise again. All he hears is "Marlins traded" and he facepalms, and SHH. They need to be almost certain it's going to help the team, and that's virtually impossible to know.

I understand it's not their fault but they also can't complain (if things stay this was) that fans will not be flocking to Marlins Park anytime soon. This is their 3rd year of a re-build, and they have yet to commit to any core player as part of the future. So why should fans commit to the Marlins ? The rumors keep circulating that the Yankees want JJ Bleday. If that trade happens within the next 2 years I'll stop believing in this ownership & put them in the same category as Loria....just using the Marlins to farther personal goals, with no real interest in winning.

If they approach the trade deadline (whenever that will be) and they have a winning record or within striking distance of a playoff position, and have a Dickerson hitting .275 to .300 and is their offensive catalyst, and trade him for prospects....that could be a fatal blow for a lot of people in Miami to ever support the franchise.

I just turned 60 yesterday and I was 33 when the franchise started. Nearly half my life and I've seen just 6 winning seasons. Means 3/4 of their seasons have been "Loserville". When is the team going to step up and finally commit to winning ? Jeter says they are, but trading Dickerson now, and Bleday and a starting pitcher in the off-season would just convince me they're not here to win, but just to turn a profit when they sell in a few years.

[fish16]

I get that, but you also understand the rebuild process. Joe Blow fan doesn't, and you need Joe Blow fan to become interested in the franchise again. All he hears is "Marlins traded" and he facepalms, and SHH. They need to be almost certain it's going to help the team, and that's virtually impossible to know.

I understand it's not their fault but they also can't complain (if things stay this was) that fans will not be flocking to Marlins Park anytime soon. This is their 3rd year of a re-build, and they have yet to commit to any core player as part of the future. So why should fans commit to the Marlins ? The rumors keep circulating that the Yankees want JJ Bleday. If that trade happens within the next 2 years I'll stop believing in this ownership & put them in the same category as Loria....just using the Marlins to farther personal goals, with no real interest in winning.

If they approach the trade deadline (whenever that will be) and they have a winning record or within striking distance of a playoff position, and have a Dickerson hitting .275 to .300 and is their offensive catalyst, and trade him for prospects....that could be a fatal blow for a lot of people in Miami to ever support the franchise.

I just turned 60 yesterday and I was 33 when the franchise started. Nearly half my life and I've seen just 6 winning seasons. Means 3/4 of their seasons have been "Loserville". When is the team going to step up and finally commit to winning ? Jeter says they are, but trading Dickerson now, and Bleday and a starting pitcher in the off-season would just convince me they're not here to win, but just to turn a profit when they sell in a few years.

youre just straight up projecting your own thoughts onto the casual fan. it would not make the slightest ripple among the casual fan if we were to trade those guys. the majority of fans would say who is that or say they didnt even know we had those guys. Plus youre just adding in something about bleday that is a complete nonsense rumor that makes 0 sense. IF they traded those vets for more prospects and in order to create more playing time for the young kids that would be looked at positively or not make an impact at all among the casual marlins fan.

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there is not a single article about bleday being traded to the yankees nor even a single tweet in the last 7 months with the words bleday and yankees in it.

[rmc523]

idc how they finish but absolutely do not play sixto, jazz, cabrera, lewin, or jesus sanchez if it mean losing a year of service time for 60 games or less in a lost year anyways. that would be beyond shortsighted. monte im fine with but thats about it. develop those guys on back fields, get a high pick next year in a loaded draft, and move onto 2021. wasting a year of service times on 60 games or less for those guys at their young age now as opposed to getting a full year 6 years from now theoretically in those guys primes is a no brainer decision.

100% agree here.

I get that, but you also understand the rebuild process. Joe Blow fan doesn't, and you need Joe Blow fan to become interested in the franchise again. All he hears is "Marlins traded" and he facepalms, and SHH. They need to be almost certain it's going to help the team, and that's virtually impossible to know.

I understand it's not their fault but they also can't complain (if things stay this was) that fans will not be flocking to Marlins Park anytime soon. This is their 3rd year of a re-build, and they have yet to commit to any core player as part of the future. So why should fans commit to the Marlins ? The rumors keep circulating that the Yankees want JJ Bleday. If that trade happens within the next 2 years I'll stop believing in this ownership & put them in the same category as Loria....just using the Marlins to farther personal goals, with no real interest in winning.

If they approach the trade deadline (whenever that will be) and they have a winning record or within striking distance of a playoff position, and have a Dickerson hitting .275 to .300 and is their offensive catalyst, and trade him for prospects....that could be a fatal blow for a lot of people in Miami to ever support the franchise.

I just turned 60 yesterday and I was 33 when the franchise started. Nearly half my life and I've seen just 6 winning seasons. Means 3/4 of their seasons have been "Loserville". When is the team going to step up and finally commit to winning ? Jeter says they are, but trading Dickerson now, and Bleday and a starting pitcher in the off-season would just convince me they're not here to win, but just to turn a profit when they sell in a few years.

What I think you're failing to realize is that Joe Blow fan also will have no idea who the player is, and won't support the team anyway, so why not do it right?

I agree that at a certain point, they need to keep players.....but they haven't reached the point of having anyone worth keeping. I do agree an Anderson extension should've been signed already.

Who cares about rumors the Yankees want JJ? You're just going off the rails now - judging the team based on some rumor of something another team wants, and a move that they've not made, really?
I'm sure the Yankees want Trout too, but that's not happening.

I like how Dickerson is suddenly Trout and the guy we should build around for the next 15 years.

[Maddawg]

I just hope they aren’t shortsighted and waste a year of service time for these young kids like sixto and jazz and Cabrera for 60 games

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You consistently project your own cynicism onto the rest of the fan base. If you think trading villar and/or Dickerson would register even the slightest outrage with the average marlins fan you’re delusional

You are so quick to judge, you don't listen to the real subject....the names don't mean anything, you're correct on that....but all the fans will hear is "the Marlins traded"....don't you get that ? It's the trust aspect, you'll never get that from the average fans (and you do need them not just for the revenue, but the vibe with attracting free agents, stadium naming rights, getting your team on nationally televised games, keeping drafted free agents etc). You have to eventually commit to some core players, and the Marlins haven't done that yet, with even a single player....fans want that, but they & you apparently don't get that. They have had 3 full off-seasons, 2 full regular seasons, and apparently are still in "lets trade for more prospects" mode.... when will it ever end ?

[Nick]

You are so quick to judge, you don't listen to the real subject....the names don't mean anything, you're correct on that....but all the fans will hear is "the Marlins traded"....don't you get that ? It's the trust aspect, you'll never get that from the average fans (and you do need them not just for the revenue, but the vibe with attracting free agents, stadium naming rights, getting your team on nationally televised games, keeping drafted free agents etc). You have to eventually commit to some core players, and the Marlins haven't done that yet, with even a single player....fans want that, but they & you apparently don't get that. They have had 3 full off-seasons, 2 full regular seasons, and apparently are still in "lets trade for more prospects" mode.... when will it ever end ?

You want to lock up a core that won 58 games last year? That you yourself said is unwatchable? Our core is still in the minor leagues, that's just a fact you're going to have to live with until they get here. I doubt your average Marlins fan even heard of Jonathan Villar before we traded for him, I don't think whether or not we trade him this year is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Maddawg]

youre just straight up projecting your own thoughts onto the casual fan. it would not make the slightest ripple among the casual fan if we were to trade those guys. the majority of fans would say who is that or say they didnt even know we had those guys. Plus youre just adding in something about bleday that is a complete nonsense rumor that makes 0 sense. IF they traded those vets for more prospects and in order to create more playing time for the young kids that would be looked at positively or not make an impact at all among the casual marlins fan.

- - - - - - - - - -

there is not a single article about bleday being traded to the yankees nor even a single tweet in the last 7 months with the words bleday and yankees in it.

Not everything is on Twitter genius. I don't even use Twitter that much because Shit-for-brains in the White House uses it and seeing retweets by that moron make me lose my sanity. I do have him blocked.

And you say I'm just projecting ? Did you check the attendance the last 5 or 6 years ....it ain't just me sweetheart.

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You want to lock up a core that won 58 games last year? That you yourself said is unwatchable? Our core is still in the minor leagues, that's just a fact you're going to have to live with until they get here. I doubt your average Marlins fan even heard of Jonathan Villar before we traded for him, I don't think whether or not we trade him this year is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Did I say everyone ? What I said was they have yet to commit to even a single player.....you've had that amount of time and can't commit to a single drafted player drafted even by previous ownership or to a long term free agent (not a big name but for 3+ years) there is nothing for fans to grab onto too, except some prospects you've traded for, and one that you traded for was a B U S T, and you still have on your roster, because you still want to give him another shot so that you don't look too bad, and yet have to release some player that might actually help us, because he's on the 40 man.

- - - - - - - - - -

You want to lock up a core that won 58 games last year? That you yourself said is unwatchable? Our core is still in the minor leagues, that's just a fact you're going to have to live with until they get here. I doubt your average Marlins fan even heard of Jonathan Villar before we traded for him, I don't think whether or not we trade him this year is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

again you don't get it. it's not the names but the news on radio, internet or tv will say, "the Marlins traded" and that's the key phrase that makes people in Miami shake their heads and just mumble "same old Marlins". It's a PR hit that kicks the fans in the nuts here in Miami harder than most markets.

[fish16]

Not everything is on Twitter genius. I don't even use Twitter that much because Shit-for-brains in the White House uses it and seeing retweets by that moron make me lose my sanity. I do have him blocked.

And you say I'm just projecting ? Did you check the attendance the last 5 or 6 years ....it ain't just me sweetheart.

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Did I say everyone ? What I said was they have yet to commit to even a single player.....you've had that amount of time and can't commit to a single drafted player drafted even by previous ownership or to a long term free agent (not a big name but for 3+ years) there is nothing for fans to grab onto too, except some prospects you've traded for, and one that you traded for was a B U S T, and you still have on your roster, because you still want to give him another shot so that you don't look too bad, and yet have to release some player that might actually help us, because he's on the 40 man.

so please point out one reputable place that has us trading bleday anytime soon at all let alone specifically to the yankees.

No one is saying there is trust in the front office currently. they havent earned that from the average fan yet who just sees the bottom line of the last 2 losing seasons. but that has nothing to do with keeping or trading any 2 or 3 mediocre to above average veteran players. its an absurd statement that trading or keeping corey dickerson or jonathan villar will have any measurable impact on attendance. The attendance increase will come from consistent winning regardless of who the players are on that potential winning team. thats it. youre just projecting your own distrust onto the average fan who doesnt give a single shit about vets like that and merely cares about the bottom line. and the bottom line is this front office has done a damn good job in this first phase of the rebuild of executing the plan and sticking to it. now the players have to pan out obviously but the process has been exactly how this team should be built and this will pay off with a consistent sustainable roster for this market eventually within the next few years.

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maddawg is straight projection and it interferes with any ability to have a conversation with him about how to run this team.

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at least we can agree on the shit for brains in the white house though, so there is some common ground

[Nick]

again you don't get it. it's not the names but the news on radio, internet or tv will say, "the Marlins traded" and that's the key phrase that makes people in Miami shake their heads and just mumble "same old Marlins". It's a PR hit that kicks the fans in the nuts here in Miami harder than most markets.

So the names have no impact at all? You're saying we should just never make a trade again, because our average fan is so uneducated that they'll shit on any trade you make. That seems like a great way to run a team.

[fish16]

So the names have no impact at all? You're saying we should just never make a trade again, because our average fan is so uneducated that they'll shit on any trade you make. That seems like a great way to run a team.

any time you can run your team based off the viewpoints of fans who dont know anything about how to run a baseball team and dont come to games to begin with, you gotta do it. ive been saying this since the front office took over- good organizations do not run their team based off fan attitude. fans care about winning. if a move is unpopular now but will be in the best interest of the team long term on the field, you do it every single time. thats why it was maddening to watch loria run the team into the ground- he consistently tried to make moves to appease the fan base who didnt show up to the ball park to begin with.

[Maddawg]

100% agree here.



What I think you're failing to realize is that Joe Blow fan also will have no idea who the player is, and won't support the team anyway, so why not do it right?

I agree that at a certain point, they need to keep players.....but they haven't reached the point of having anyone worth keeping. I do agree an Anderson extension should've been signed already.

Who cares about rumors the Yankees want JJ? You're just going off the rails now - judging the team based on some rumor of something another team wants, and a move that they've not made, really?
I'm sure the Yankees want Trout too, but that's not happening.

I like how Dickerson is suddenly Trout and the guy we should build around for the next 15 years.

Again the names don't matter - the words in any press release that do are "the Marlins traded", and if you believe every player they trade for is going to be a stud, look no farther than Brinson. This braintrust put him forward as fast as they could after he was traded, polishing him up to the public like a new prized diamond....however he was actually a lump of coal. They traded what could be a future HoF catcher for Alfaro, who could be an Uber or Lyft driver in a few years. You guys trust in them waaaaaaay too much. So some people rank the farm system highly.....until they prove themselves they haven't done shit....meanwhile the MLB team just flounders

[fish16]

Again the names don't matter - the words in any press release that do are "the Marlins traded", and if you believe every player they trade for is going to be a stud, look no farther than Brinson. This braintrust put him forward as fast as they could after he was traded, polishing him up to the public like a new prized diamond....however he was actually a lump of coal. They traded what could be a future HoF catcher for Alfaro, who could be an Uber or Lyft driver in a few years. You guys trust in them waaaaaaay too much. So some people rank the farm system highly.....until they prove themselves they haven't done shit....meanwhile the MLB team just flounders

so again, the bottom line here is you consistently project your own mistrust onto the average fan who doesnt know what the fuck they are talking about. they have also turned the worst farm system in baseball into a top 5 system in two years, eliminated all long term contracts, and rebuilt the organization from top to bottom in terms of the kinds of players they prefer, their draft strategy, actually valuing player development, and actually having a coherent plan in international free agency as opposed to ignoring it entirely as a team from freaking miami. If you cant see how much further ahead this front office and ownership is compared to the previous regime thats a you problem.

[Maddawg]

so again, the bottom line here is you consistently project your own mistrust onto the average fan who doesnt know what the fuck they are talking about. they have also turned the worst farm system in baseball into a top 5 system in two years, eliminated all long term contracts, and rebuilt the organization from top to bottom in terms of the kinds of players they prefer, their draft strategy, actually valuing player development, and actually having a coherent plan in international free agency as opposed to ignoring it entirely as a team from freaking miami. If you cant see how much further ahead this front office and ownership is compared to the previous regime thats a you problem.

58-105, on a team they said would be improved from 2018. 22 shutouts on a team Jeter promised would be better on offense. He said we'd love Brinson.... nope they don't have my trust yet.... you have tRump Cult psychosis when it comes to the Marlins. Top 5 farm system, but not one team made the minor league playoffs, and only a scattering of players made the minor league all-star teams, certainly nothing approaching dominant players.... I had MiLB.tv last year and watched a number of Baby Cakes, Jumbo Shrimp games.....no one especially stood out to me

[sports24/7]

I think with universal DH, we'll see at least one of the young bats up at some point. My money is on Lewin or Monte.