2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[tjfla]

Jordan McPherson
@J_McPherson1126
#Marlins manager Don Mattingly said Jonathan Villar will start camp working in center field. He'll still get infield reps, but team hopes CF works out. They have backup plans if it doesn't.
1:50 PM · Feb 17, 2020·TweetDeck

Yep adjust your lineups

Craig Mish
@CraigMish
·
47m
Marlins Manager Don Mattingly indicates the place they will start with Jonathan Villar is.......

Center Field

So
2B-Isan
SS-Rojas/Berti(UT)
3B-BA/Villar
CF-Villar/Sierra
RF-Joyce/BA

Could be a Sean Rodriguez or another MIF type makes the team

- - - - - - - - - -

Jordan McPherson
@J_McPherson1126
#Marlins manager Don Mattingly said Jonathan Villar will start camp working in center field. He'll still get infield reps, but team hopes CF works out. They have backup plans if it doesn't.
1:50 PM · Feb 17, 2020·TweetDeck

Yep adjust your lineups

Craig Mish
@CraigMish
·
47m
Marlins Manager Don Mattingly indicates the place they will start with Jonathan Villar is.......

Center Field

So
2B-Isan
SS-Rojas/Berti(UT)
3B-BA/Villar
CF-Villar/Sierra
RF-Joyce/BA

Could be a Sean Rodriguez or another MIF type makes the team

- - - - - - - - - -

Will Manso
@WillManso
·
1h
Marlins owner Bruce Sherman took at a shot at Jeffrey Loria regime and way they interfered with day-to-day operations. He called it, “a stupid way to run a baseball club.”

Guess Bruce Sherman got the memo from Marlin fans. Bruce should be around another day or 2 then on his yacht!! The way a baseball club should be run(no owner interference)

[Nick]

I watched the Bruce Sherman interview. I feel like that's the first time I've ever seen him speak, or even seen what he looks like. Good to know the dude actually exists.

[fish16]

sherman has been a good owner thus far. The trades were necessary (except maybe yelich but that could have been a good deal if the return was executed better and the idea of trading him made somewhat sense given the position of the organization). It finally seems like we have an owner who understands how a team like us down here needs to be run in order to put itself into a position to be able to be a contender consistently. I hope he continues to point out just how idiotically Loria ran this team in order to show why the way they are doing this rebuild is absolutely the right move.

[Nick]

Sherman has proved absolutely nothing as an owner. Unless I'm misunderstanding how involved he was in assembling the FO, my impression was that was Jeter's job. Sherman will prove his worth when we actually start investing money in the team. That hasn't happened yet.

I'm not going to praise the guy just because he hasn't meddled like Loria did.

- - - - - - - - - -

Things like them going to arbitration court with Aguilar over $200K doesn't make me optimistic about our future spending.

[Namaste]

But what about if the return on the Yelich trade was better? Would Sherman have proved he was a good owner?

I kid, I kid!!!!!

[fish16]

But what about if the return on the Yelich trade was better? Would Sherman have proved he was a good owner?

I kid, I kid!!!!!

im not gonna act like they didnt fuck up that asset, all i was saying is what i have been saying since they took over, which is that the process with which they are going about building this organization has been the ideal way to build a future contender in this market. they have invested in the draft, IFA, and player development, which is how you build a consistent contender in a small market. Individual moves will never be perfect for any team but the overall process is the ideal way to build a team in a small market.

That and sticking to a consistent plan and not deviating it based on which side of the bed an owner wakes up on in the morning. It is admittedly a very small thing to ask but after 2 decades of loria that was such a necessary change this organization needed.

- - - - - - - - - -

cant wait for baseball games to be back starting next saturday. we've discussed just about every possible situation, now its time to see how this shit plays out.

- - - - - - - - - -

Sherman has proved absolutely nothing as an owner. Unless I'm misunderstanding how involved he was in assembling the FO, my impression was that was Jeter's job. Sherman will prove his worth when we actually start investing money in the team. That hasn't happened yet.

I'm not going to praise the guy just because he hasn't meddled like Loria did.

- - - - - - - - - -

Things like them going to arbitration court with Aguilar over $200K doesn't make me optimistic about our future spending.

i agree that he's gonna need to prove he's willing to spend but there have been some optimistic signs- significant spending in IFA and the draft and eating chen's deal as well as tazawa's. I dont mind them waiting for the young kids to develop for another year before investing in FA but they of course have to prove it when the time comes.

[lou]

Things like them going to arbitration court with Aguilar over $200K doesn't make me optimistic about our future spending.

To be super technical here, assuming Aguilar is a 3 year asset and he works out, they will save in arb2 and arb3 keeping him lower here. So it could be saving more.

Theoretically.

They should just give him the halfway point and give him moderate incentives to get all the way there.

- - - - - - - - - -

The trades were necessary (except maybe yelich but that could have been a good deal if the return was executed better and the idea of trading him made somewhat sense given the position of the organization)

No. Just stop with these little quibs.

Bad on paper
Bad on execution
Got worse in both directions with Yelich improving, and Brinson likely failing

There was no baseball reason to do this, and I do not buy "he would have been a clubhouse cancer."

Act like a real franchise - like the Miami Heat - and you'll never have this discussion

[nny]

Where do you folks stand on the Astros cheating situation?

Am I the only one that doesn't give a shit about this?

"MLB players cheat, more at 11"

Like, NO FUCKING DUH. Stealing signs is the oldest shit in the book.

Go on Reddit though and it's like they dog-fucked Lassie in front of Timmy drowning in the well.

[tjfla]

Gotta love this-I wonder if they try getting him in some games this year instead of just do BP/drills all year

https://twitter.com/fishstripes/stat...51026011508737

Gonna be interesting to see what they do with some of the Higher Ranked IFA guys if they move them up after month when GCL starts

- - - - - - - - - -

Sherman has proved absolutely nothing as an owner. Unless I'm misunderstanding how involved he was in assembling the FO, my impression was that was Jeter's job. Sherman will prove his worth when we actually start investing money in the team. That hasn't happened yet.

I'm not going to praise the guy just because he hasn't meddled like Loria did.

- - - - - - - - - -

Things like them going to arbitration court with Aguilar over $200K doesn't make me optimistic about our future spending.

Exactly what a owner should do. Get guys(Jeter/Denbo) to hire actual baseball guys to do the jobs instead of Jeff/Samson doing everything

But very true-we will see what type of owner he is next year when they pretty much have to spend money

Arbitration is part of the game-not about being cheap or anything

[fish16]

To be super technical here, assuming Aguilar is a 3 year asset and he works out, they will save in arb2 and arb3 keeping him lower here. So it could be saving more.

Theoretically.

They should just give him the halfway point and give him moderate incentives to get all the way there.

- - - - - - - - - -



No. Just stop with these little quibs.

Bad on paper
Bad on execution
Got worse in both directions with Yelich improving, and Brinson likely failing

There was no baseball reason to do this, and I do not buy "he would have been a clubhouse cancer."

Act like a real franchise - like the Miami Heat - and you'll never have this discussion

You not buying the clubhouse cancer thing doesn’t make it any less of a possibility. Samson isn’t the most trustworthy guy but he has given insight into what yelich was doing in the clubhouse as a result of what Jeff baker of all people was putting in his head. And the thought process behind the deal was fine. They got 3 top 100 prospects for him and a flier on a 4th sp who was loved by our analytics guys. That’s good value. Also, yelich has obviously improved and gotten stronger but there is a small chance he would be putting up those numbers in this ballpark and in this lineup. His numbers on the road are still elite but his home numbers the last two years have still been significantly better.

We were in a position where we wanted to completely blow it up and he was our best asset to rebuild a bottom 3 farm system in the entire league. The haul for him got enough value given where they were ranked at the time, the prospects just didn’t work out and the scouts failed the organization on brinsons potential, but it wasn’t bad value for what yelich was at the time, the direction we would have been going the last two years, and what those prospects were rated at the time. To put it into perspective, using where guys are ranked now it’s like is dealing him to the rays for Brendan McKay, Xavier Edwards, and someone like Honeywell or Shane baz according to mlbs current list as well as another 4th prospect., which would be a very good value for a guy who never put up higher than an .859 ops or 21 hrs while here.

[Nick]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sandy-al...s-flexibility/

Fangraphs just released an interesting article on Alcantara.

[lou]

You not buying the clubhouse cancer thing doesn’t make it any less of a possibility. Samson isn’t the most trustworthy guy but he has given insight into what yelich was doing in the clubhouse as a result of what Jeff baker of all people was putting in his head. And the thought process behind the deal was fine. They got 3 top 100 prospects for him and a flier on a 4th sp who was loved by our analytics guys. That’s good value. Also, yelich has obviously improved and gotten stronger but there is a small chance he would be putting up those numbers in this ballpark and in this lineup. His numbers on the road are still elite but his home numbers the last two years have still been significantly better.

We were in a position where we wanted to completely blow it up and he was our best asset to rebuild a bottom 3 farm system in the entire league. The haul for him got enough value given where they were ranked at the time, the prospects just didn’t work out and the scouts failed the organization on brinsons potential, but it wasn’t bad value for what yelich was at the time, the direction we would have been going the last two years, and what those prospects were rated at the time. To put it into perspective, using where guys are ranked now it’s like is dealing him to the rays for Brendan McKay, Xavier Edwards, and someone like Honeywell or Shane baz according to mlbs current list as well as another 4th prospect., which would be a very good value for a guy who never put up higher than an .859 ops or 21 hrs while here.

The thought process was not fine without Hiura or Burnes added, and I am exhausted at showing this math over and over and over.

They undersold one of the biggest assets in baseball, and then it hot worse.

- - - - - - - - - -

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sandy-al...s-flexibility/

Fangraphs just released an interesting article on Alcantara.

I came here to post that. It's awesome.

[gustavopim]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sandy-al...s-flexibility/

Fangraphs just released an interesting article on Alcantara.

" If he can continue to improve his command (and control) and can dynamically deploy his repertoire, his pitch pairing flexibility could turn him into one of the better pitchers in the National League, if not in all of baseball." Damn

[Lee Stone]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sandy-al...s-flexibility/

Fangraphs just released an interesting article on Alcantara.

Always good to see a positive take on a Marlin. I was needing that because it's been hard for me to get past this:

2018 Urena H9 8.0 BB9 2.6 K9 6.6 WHIP 1.18
2019 Alcantara H9 8.2 BB9 3.7 K9 6.9 WHIP 1.32

And no, Urena did not make the All Star team. I'm off to the Jupiter complex to check out the workouts!

[Namaste]

You not buying the clubhouse cancer thing doesn’t make it any less of a possibility. Samson isn’t the most trustworthy guy but he has given insight into what yelich was doing in the clubhouse as a result of what Jeff baker of all people was putting in his head. And the thought process behind the deal was fine. They got 3 top 100 prospects for him and a flier on a 4th sp who was loved by our analytics guys. That’s good value. Also, yelich has obviously improved and gotten stronger but there is a small chance he would be putting up those numbers in this ballpark and in this lineup. His numbers on the road are still elite but his home numbers the last two years have still been significantly better.

We were in a position where we wanted to completely blow it up and he was our best asset to rebuild a bottom 3 farm system in the entire league. The haul for him got enough value given where they were ranked at the time, the prospects just didn’t work out and the scouts failed the organization on brinsons potential, but it wasn’t bad value for what yelich was at the time, the direction we would have been going the last two years, and what those prospects were rated at the time. To put it into perspective, using where guys are ranked now it’s like is dealing him to the rays for Brendan McKay, Xavier Edwards, and someone like Honeywell or Shane baz according to mlbs current list as well as another 4th prospect., which would be a very good value for a guy who never put up higher than an .859 ops or 21 hrs while here.

They traded the 2nd best player IN ALL OF MLB and they didn’t get a Top 20 prospect in return.

But keep defending the trade.

Also, with Villar slated to start in CF, leaving Brinson who the fuck knows where, the Yelich trade inches closer to a confirmed total disaster.